Returning to the Old Ways

[Lestari]

Yes, which makes the fact that you take me saying 'I'm gonna nuke the shit outta you' (something I've said to just about everybody anyway) seriously even dumber.

[Mr Director]

 

I stated that Markus had made it clear to you ICly recently that he has no interest in invading you, having a plan to do so does not mean he's going to, it means the Eastern Bloc has been !@#$ting on him for the past 6 months so he drew up a battleplan for when it'd be needed, since obviously there was no interest in de-escalation from your side.

 

 

That battleplan existed well before the East Bloc did. It was well before the whole Poland thing, even. Check the bloody dates. And he has not made that clear ICly. If anything, it has been the opposite.

 

 

Public

 

All Eastern Bloc nations have one week to remove their offensive forces from Alvonian borders, or face precision strikes to remove this threat to our nation and people.

 

And before we go off on some tangent about how he was being threatened by the East Bloc, that whole thing was started by Alvonia moving into Snowhaven... not so different from Belarus moving into Poland, except maybe the fact that Markus had some incredibly weak OOC justification that France would want that territory.

[Mogar]

 

That battleplan existed well before the East Bloc did. It was well before the whole Poland thing, even. Check the bloody dates. And he has not made that clear ICly. If anything, it has been the opposite.

 

 

 

 

And before we go off on some tangent about how he was being threatened by the East Bloc, that whole thing was started by Alvonia moving into Snowhaven... not so different from Belarus moving into Poland, except maybe the fact that Markus had some incredibly weak OOC justification that France would want that territory.

The battleplan existed because it was obvious that Belarus and Hungary wanted to support the Prussian landgrab, if you genuinely wished to actually incorporate Alvonia into Europe, plenty could have been done that didn't involve you actively threatening Alvonia with war once a week ever since he tried to stop said Prussian landgrab.

 

 

Seems like he had no justification at all to believe France would want Snow Haven to return to France.

[Mr Director]

The battleplan existed because it was obvious that Belarus and Hungary wanted to support the Prussian landgrab, if you genuinely wished to actually incorporate Alvonia into Europe, plenty could have been done that didn't involve you actively threatening Alvonia with war once a week ever since he tried to stop said Prussian landgrab.

 

 

Seems like he had no justification at all to believe France would want Snow Haven to return to France.

 

What the hell are you talking about? Prussia didn't exist when those plans were posted. That justification was purely OOC and should not affect his IC actions.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Mr Director

[Mogar]

 

What the hell are you talking about? Prussia didn't exist when those plans were posted. That justification was purely OOC and should not affect his IC actions.

The original plans, which were IC and not something you'd know about, but after that there WAS the prussian landgrab, in which Belarus, Romania, and the precursor to the Eastern Bloc essentially just stole Poland, and most of Alvonia, leaving them without a coastline and continuing to politically isolate them for 6 months RL time.

[Mr Director]

The original plans, which were IC and not something you'd know about, but after that there WAS the prussian landgrab, in which Belarus, Romania, and the precursor to the Eastern Bloc essentially just stole Poland, and most of Alvonia, leaving them without a coastline and continuing to politically isolate them for 6 months RL time.

 

Those plans were posted in June. The war didn't happen until August. It has not been six months since August. Those plans were offensive, not defensive. I'm not using those plans ICly, I don't need to. I have plenty of other statements that I can use. Belarus, Romania, and Hungary were not the precursor to the East Bloc, they were the bloc. Alvonia is in no position to complain, after tripping over itself to ally a state that spent half its existence threatening Belarus. And I do know about that alliance ICly.

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/122198-the-european-community/?p=3277169

[Evangeline Anovilis]

 

Britain Carthage Romania control essentially the majority of Europe, due to isolating and attacking anyone who stands against them, Alvonia was merely the first, you are attempting to make Yugoslavia the second, and so on until all of Europe is either allied or subdued. Considering Nutmeg isn't just going to hand the land over to France, and it was made very clear by Triyun OOCly that he fulls intends on supporting Italy for no reason other than it held French land, due to the wiping of that incident and then the instant repeat of the same scenario.

 

Triyun clearly stated he has no intentions of allowing France to return to its original borders, how else do you propose France return that land to them besides war? The diplomatic option is obviously out. We all know FHIC would have immediately claimed Snow Haven back had she been here, and the only reason nutmeg was able to do so was due to Triyun's support. Cooperation is based upon genuine intentions, it is reasonable to conclude that a nation actively working against your interests does not actually hold your best intentions.

Cooperation how? France sits idle while Europe is rolled over by your Tripartite? that doesn't sound like cooperation, that sounds like submission.

Having 400,000 troops on Yugoslavia's border isn't threatening, but GLR moving 10,000 troops into Yugoslavia is obviously an imminent threat to Romania's continued existence compared to several field armies of combat troops not being a threat to Yugoslavia's existence. Nations that communicate their intentions and prove they share my best interests can do whatever the $%&@ they want in the Indian or the Pacific, it's those who wish to use them against me that I feel threatened by.

 

Where is Cent's capital located? is it in Africa, or is it in Europe, there is a reason every single continental treaty specifies this for admission. those who have their capital elsewhere may have different intentions, EAI's capital is in Asia and EAI is most concerned with Asia's interests, an African nation will not have Europe's best interests, they will have Africas. as to the sexism and harassment, we both know that was done entirely due to the OOC players, and had nothing to do with the characters. Triyun could have done the same to Sarah, I wonder why he did not.

Alvonia is Europe's Pariah entirely due to yourself, and you are threatened by any attempts others make at repairing that status. your diplomatic efforts were an ultimatum over land Alvonia controlled for far longer than your nation's existence, and then you worked hard at ensuring no one reached out to him diplomatically, to the extent you were preparing to go to war with them to ensure that Alvonia will always be kept down.
 

 

Certainly sounds like you were all about promoting a united Europe, and not just rolling Alvonia forever, it has literally been 6 months in real time and you are still ensuring you can keep Markus down, and paranoia goes both ways miss. The only reason Alvonia isnt directly bordering its other allies is due to you removing Markus's coastline through war.

 

First off, Eastern Bloc was a greater force than Britain and Carthage, up to Euphaia leaving (no comments on that one). Now we got Nordic Shield. I do not know what their future holds, and where it not for the war (and probable outcome of the war), I'd use more diplomatic ressources on it, but well. Europe is no monolith, it will never be, but it should also not be a brutal battle royale. There's been plenty of opposition to the Bloc, at various times, be it Jed, be it Rudolph, be it Lyser, ... Most have not even seen a rise in armed forces deployments against them or anything, but disagreeing diplomats. So, no, we aren't exactly oppressing Europe.

 

Triyun stated he'd weaken their ability to regain it, not make it impossible. Just like I stated to Sweden in the Snowhaven crisis, everything's fine, as long as Cisalpinia is not attacked. Not easy, but also not impossible. And sometimes, you will have to live with it, that there also are other people, who should be taken into consideration, like Nutmeg.

 

On the quote of mine (I do recognise my own words), it is a recognition of the potential problems posed by an encirclement, especially as this encirclement has a history of hostility towards the bloc. It also states quite clearly that I see no reason to engineer a war, that however I do not shy away from it, if it is needed to break the encirclement. Alternative approaches were sought, such as seeking relations with Yugoslavia and Sweden, in exchange for them to not encourage Alvonia, but it did not work. Escalation happened. I don't really see the issue with your quote from my plannings, except that I bluntly state that if we need to go to war, I advise going to war. It's like digging out Falkenhayn's works in the pre-war years that state that Germany 1914 enjoyed a strategic advantage still, that was narrowing, and to then argue solely based on that, that Germany was out for world domination in WWI. Yeah, no.

 

And I'm not paranoid. I'm cautious. Keeping Markus within his postwar borders and isolating him, for as long as he isn't cooperative is not because Markus poses a threat, but because Markus with assistence might pose one, and as long as the nation in question holds onto revisionism, an eye shall be kept on him. Paranoia would be, if I was convinced that my neighbours are out there to destroy me, which I would doubt (except my enemies I'm at war with might think so, but well).

 

 

You're joking, right?

 

You ARE joking, right?

 

I was one of the founding European Community members. Was it perfect? Hell no, in fact it was designed to counter FHIC and Lysergide in the beginning. Did it work? Not really, but to say that I did not try to integrate myself into the European community as a whole is ridiculous and I honestly hope this is some weird German* joke I'm not getting.

 

Let's not forget it was your allies, Hungary and Belarus, that meddled in my affairs first. I asked them to remove themselves from my protectorate, and they refused and kept trying to push me to divide up a country I had IC interests in keeping whole. They even did this at the later peace conference overriding any sort of reason or logic, after I had conceded damn near everything to try and give them the best possible route that I could feel comfortable with IC.

 

But I'm a pariah.

 

I don't claim to be a saint, and never have, and I admit the whole deal in Brandenburg was a mistake OOC. Let me remind you I settled that with a deal that Ty and I both walked away happy from. I didn't like it, but I saw your storm clouds coming and I didn't want to face a two-front war, so I sought peace.

 

But I'm a pariah.

 

I try to defend my allies' interests, keep myself from being destroyed by you and your bloc of buddies, and overall live another day. I lived under constant harassment from you and Hungary because of minor issues and even watched you two %#&@$ at each other in my %*#&ing private news thread after I warned both of you multiple times to keep out of and move your bickering somewhere else.

 

But I'm a pariah, so %*#@ me, right?

 

*I know damn well you're Austrian and I don't give a $*#@.

No, I'm not joking. I'm 100% of a serious Austrian.

 

Eurocomm was a trainwreck, afterwards you pretty much, for a limited time swung your weight around (thanks to Zoot's backing) and when Romania was created, you were just trying to strongarm Hungary and Belarus out of rest-Poland (which you got IC interest in, but not really any entitlement over other people). The Carthage Accords were pretty much forced with the threat that otherwise you'd use the Wehrmacht. And you know, the moment you start threatening others with military action, I do kind of think you lost a moral highground to ever claim you were just a victim, when others come and do the same to you in response. Apart from that, feel free to complain, I think you were left with a reasonable amount of your country, you got some territory in exchange, I swatted down reps which were demanded by Euphaia and while a certain someone argued we should take you apart further, no further territorial claims were ever brought forward, out of fairness.

 

And yes, you were a pariah state.

 

[hr]

 

It might be worth noting, that the Snowhaven matter later got retconned, due to the problematic nature of the subject. So, I'd think that what transpired during the matter cannot be really used as proof for later "policies", given it never happened and led to a stronger ruling on locked nation, which was subsequently followed.

[Centurius]

 

Britain Carthage Romania control essentially the majority of Europe, due to isolating and attacking anyone who stands against them, Alvonia was merely the first, you are attempting to make Yugoslavia the second, and so on until all of Europe is either allied or subdued. Considering Nutmeg isn't just going to hand the land over to France, and it was made very clear by Triyun OOCly that he fulls intends on supporting Italy for no reason other than it held French land, due to the wiping of that incident and then the instant repeat of the same scenario.

 

Where is Cent's capital located? is it in Africa, or is it in Europe, there is a reason every single continental treaty specifies this for admission. those who have their capital elsewhere may have different intentions, EAI's capital is in Asia and EAI is most concerned with Asia's interests, an African nation will not have Europe's best interests, they will have Africas. as to the sexism and harassment, we both know that was done entirely due to the OOC players, and had nothing to do with the characters. Triyun could have done the same to Sarah, I wonder why he did not.
 

 

Ahem, Carthage only started asserting its control in Europe after Yugoslavia started plotting pushing it out of the continent entirely(which I was informed of ICly by an ally I had and still have no reason to distrust the intelligence of). ICly Carthage had stopped its advance at Portugal and Andalusia(which are ancestral holdings). Beyond that it gave independence to Greece, it supported the rise of Cisalpina despite originally declaring a protectorate over Italy and even cooperated with Yugoslav forces despite the declaration of protection. Only after Rudolph began plotting did Carthage extend its influence to also cover Sicily(which still falls under the ancestral holdings) and has since given both Naples and Celtiberia independence. The argument that Carthage was participating in the control of Europe is quite frankly ridiculous,

 

As for that little jab over the Athenian Federation. Yes, Carthage does consider itself a descendent of the Athenian Federation. As does any country who sits on the land of a once great empire. However you will have a tough time making the argument ICly that Carthage seeks to become a new Athenian Federation.

[Hereno]

Brian is only in this RP as a puppet.

The French treaty only exists for OOC reasons, and I have posted logs in IRC before showing as much.

Mogar has admitted in a post visible to everyone here that his reasons for entering the war are OOC based.

We wiped Vektor's !@#$ over a very similar admission. It would be extremely biased to not do the same here.

Of course, given Rudolph's partiality in the IRC channel, I expect nothing less than him to continue thinking this is some "war for the future of CNRP2" and continue to be a biased !@#$head in spite of his normally impartial and fair standards in the GM position.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Hereno

[Triyun]

For those of us not in #cnrp2 because of some of the attitudes given in there, could you post the logs of the French Treaty here?

[Mogar]

Brian is only in this RP as a puppet.

The French treaty only exists for OOC reasons, and I have posted logs in IRC before showing as much.

Mogar has admitted in a post visible to everyone here that his reasons for entering the war are OOC based.

We wiped Vektor's !@#$ over a very similar admission. It would be extremely biased to not do the same here.

Of course, given Rudolph's partiality in the IRC channel, I expect nothing less than him to continue thinking this is some "war for the future of CNRP2" and continue to be a biased !@#$head in spite of his normally impartial and fair standards in the GM position.

Brian honestly is waiting for this war to wrap up so he can war FHIC and they can entertain themselves, I believe he will be leading one of the factions in France. You'd have to ask FHIC for more details since I am not the one planning it of course.

 

The French treaty exists for the sake of having a European ally, and has more IC basis than half of the #hegemon treaties.

 

I admitted being able to fight people I dislike is certainly a bonus, and clearly listed a paragraph of reasons for my own involvement, all of which are entirely ICly, getting groped just added fuel to the fire of wanting to help GLR and France.

 

You wiped Vektor's over him explicitly stating he wants to bully me OOCly, there has never been an admission of such by me, nor do I have any intention of actually changing anyone's borders, once Eva gets the fuck out of Yugoslavia, I dont have a reason to continue fighting Britain.

 

Ahem, Carthage only started asserting its control in Europe after Yugoslavia started plotting pushing it out of the continent entirely(which I was informed of ICly by an ally I had and still have no reason to distrust the intelligence of). ICly Carthage had stopped its advance at Portugal and Andalusia(which are ancestral holdings). Beyond that it gave independence to Greece, it supported the rise of Cisalpina despite originally declaring a protectorate over Italy and even cooperated with Yugoslav forces despite the declaration of protection. Only after Rudolph began plotting did Carthage extend its influence to also cover Sicily(which still falls under the ancestral holdings) and has since given both Naples and Celtiberia independence. The argument that Carthage was participating in the control of Europe is quite frankly ridiculous,

 

As for that little jab over the Athenian Federation. Yes, Carthage does consider itself a descendent of the Athenian Federation. As does any country who sits on the land of a once great empire. However you will have a tough time making the argument ICly that Carthage seeks to become a new Athenian Federation.

Independence on the condition of being a vassal state, yes, that is definitely allowing genuine independence. Carthage stopped its advance due to the GMs rulling against you annexing land during war, you had every intention to continue annexing the rest of spain and italy.

[Voodoo Nova]

Brian honestly is waiting for this war to wrap up so he can war FHIC and they can entertain themselves, I believe he will be leading one of the factions in France. You'd have to ask FHIC for more details since I am not the one planning it of course.

 

The French treaty exists for the sake of having a European ally, and has more IC basis than half of the #hegemon treaties.

 

I admitted being able to fight people I dislike is certainly a bonus, and clearly listed a paragraph of reasons for my own involvement, all of which are entirely ICly, getting groped just added fuel to the fire of wanting to help GLR and France.

 

You wiped Vektor's over him explicitly stating he wants to bully me OOCly, there has never been an admission of such by me, nor do I have any intention of actually changing anyone's borders, once Eva gets the $%&@ out of Yugoslavia, I dont have a reason to continue fighting Britain.

 

Independence on the condition of being a vassal state, yes, that is definitely allowing genuine independence. Carthage stopped its advance due to the GMs rulling against you annexing land during war, you had every intention to continue annexing the rest of spain and italy.

 

What are the treaties between all "hegemon" people and why they have no IC basis. 

[Centurius]

 

Independence on the condition of being a vassal state, yes, that is definitely allowing genuine independence. Carthage stopped its advance due to the GMs rulling against you annexing land during war, you had every intention to continue annexing the rest of spain and italy.

You really seem to have a problem understanding cause and effect or general linear time for that matter, let me illustrate the chain of events in an easy to understand system.

 

Carthage annexes Andalusia and Portugal, does nothing for a while -> Carthage declares protectorate over land of its former ally, despite being able to does not immediately push Yugoslavia out -> Yugoslavia starts plotting to push Carthage out of Europe -> Carthage issues ultimatum telling Yugoslavia to get out of its protectorate and recognize Carthaginian protection and nothing more -> Carthage annexes Sicily due to the clear threat posed by European powers trying to push it out entirely, still gives independence to Naples and Spain.

 

You should ask Xavier if he considers himself a vassal, or do you believe India is a vassal of the United Kingdom in rl(the Punic League was modeled after the Commonwealth of Nations after all and is just a MDoAP with some flavour rp clauses)?

 

A GM also never ruled against me annexing Spain, I opted to not continue posting because FHIC disputed it and then Xavier asked me for the land. Would I have eventually anexed Italy? Perhaps, but there is no sign I would have ICly and even if there were it would be a natural response to being threatened by neighbouring states(something you always love to scream to justify your own movements).

 

Easier to understand now or do I need to simplify it further?

[Hereno]

For those of us not in #cnrp2 because of some of the attitudes given in there, could you post the logs of the French Treaty here?

T 1406356794 31<Hereno>30 i'm thinking of asking your empress if i can have a colony in SE asia somewhere
T 1406356814 31<Hereno>30 perhaps india if coloradia is really gone
T 1406356878 18<Mogar> i can tell you right now the answer would be no
T 1406356887 18<Mogar> FHIC only got one because she has tits
T 1406357091 31<Hereno>30 i'm more disappointed by the sexism than the answer itself
T 1406357121 18<Mogar> well that was a blunter wording than the reality
T 1406357174 18<Mogar> but accurate enough, I was more willing to go against my normal IC politics due to the OOC relationship I share with her
T 1406357181 18<Mogar> plus our leaders are IC lesbians together :v
T 1406357377 31<Hereno>30 okay

[Mogar]

 

What are the treaties between all "hegemon" people and why they have no IC basis. 

Britain and Persia doesnt have much IC basis if we're going to purely use location as a reference, like Hereno is attempting to paint my treaty with FHIC.

 

Sarah doesnt even HAVE a treaty with anyone besides Kevin, and is still just randomly attacking Alvonia.

 

Kevin has flat out said he would not have been allowed to roll as Hanover unless he signed the MDP with Triyun.

 

Horo and Eva could be Communist and Fascist and still be best friends ICly.

 

$100 says MGL signs an MDP+ with Triyun the moment the war is over.

 

I dislike being painted with the brush of my actions being evil but everyone else's get whitewashed, I could come up with other examples if you'd like, Triyun and Cent always manage to hold a treaty regardless of anything.

 

 

You really seem to have a problem understanding cause and effect or general linear time for that matter, let me illustrate the chain of events in an easy to understand system.

 

Carthage annexes Andalusia and Portugal, does nothing for a while -> Carthage declares protectorate over land of its former ally, despite being able to does not immediately push Yugoslavia out -> Yugoslavia starts plotting to push Carthage out of Europe -> Carthage issues ultimatum telling Yugoslavia to get out of its protectorate and recognize Carthaginian protection and nothing more -> Carthage annexes Sicily due to the clear threat posed by European powers trying to push it out entirely, still gives independence to Naples and Spain.

 

You should ask Xavier if he considers himself a vassal, or do you believe India is a vassal of the United Kingdom in rl(the Punic League was modeled after the Commonwealth of Nations after all and is just a MDoAP with some flavour rp clauses)?

 

A GM also never ruled against me annexing Spain, I opted to not continue posting because FHIC disputed it and then Xavier asked me for the land. Would I have eventually anexed Italy? Perhaps, but there is no sign I would have ICly and even if there were it would be a natural response to being threatened by neighbouring states(something you always love to scream to justify your own movements).

 

Easier to understand now or do I need to simplify it further?

Spain was a strategic location, and those WERE ruled against you annexing, what option was Xavier given, did he get to make his own IC political decision or did you immediately offer him membership in your little justice league?

 

 

T 1406356794 31<Hereno>30 i'm thinking of asking your empress if i can have a colony in SE asia somewhere
T 1406356814 31<Hereno>30 perhaps india if coloradia is really gone
T 1406356878 18<Mogar> i can tell you right now the answer would be no
T 1406356887 18<Mogar> FHIC only got one because she has !@#$
T 1406357091 31<Hereno>30 i'm more disappointed by the sexism than the answer itself
T 1406357121 18<Mogar> well that was a blunter wording than the reality
T 1406357174 18<Mogar> but accurate enough, I was more willing to go against my normal IC politics due to the OOC relationship I share with her
T 1406357181 18<Mogar> plus our leaders are IC lesbians together :v
T 1406357377 31<Hereno>30 okay

 

[02:52] <Hereno> i don't care about that stuff as long as it's rp'd

[02:53] <Hereno> your leaders being close and her getting some dumb island isn't a big deal

04[02:54] <Mogar> it was the first diplo thread we both did, and while not RP'd extensively

04[02:54] <Mogar> think about it, if you are a 20 something year old girl and the leader of a nation, you dont get many chances to have friends, as such another 20 something year old girlw ith the same job would naturally become your friend, especially if you're allied

 

FHIC literally rolled into RP2 with this all predecided, she got special treatment because our leaders are special friends, she wont be using a colony against me, same with Ty, unless you're accusing me of having an inappropriate relationship with Ty as well, perhaps you should throw in some harassment claims as well.

[Hereno]

[02:52] <Hereno> i don't care about that stuff as long as it's rp'd
[02:53] <Hereno> your leaders being close and her getting some dumb island isn't a big deal
04[02:54] <Mogar> it was the first diplo thread we both did, and while not RP'd extensively
04[02:54] <Mogar> think about it, if you are a 20 something year old girl and the leader of a nation, you dont get many chances to have friends, as such another 20 something year old girlw ith the same job would naturally become your friend, especially if you're allied
 
FHIC literally rolled into RP2 with this all predecided, she got special treatment because our leaders are special friends, she wont be using a colony against me, same with Ty, unless you're accusing me of having an inappropriate relationship with Ty as well, perhaps you should throw in some harassment claims as well.

That's the thing. I don't care about it. I don't think the rules as they stand are good rules, and I think they lead to people who have friends getting shafted. Horo and Eva being the first and foremost among people who get called out because they're friends with each other.

But, as it stands, what you did is against the rules and you've straight up said it in your own words. I'm just following the rules that were created by the community - not by me.

[Triyun]

Wait how do you have a 20 something year old girl head of your nation, yet you keep claiming these decades of war build up?  Did she start as a newborn when you started RPing?

[Centurius]

 

Spain was a strategic location, and those WERE ruled against you annexing, what option was Xavier given, did he get to make his own IC political decision or did you immediately offer him membership in your little justice league?

 

No strategic locations couldn't be annexed during the pause, which wasn't a ruling but something all parties agreed on. Simply facilitated by a GM. Reading comprehension a problem too?

 

Xavier was offered to become a founding member of the Punic League, yes. He used his free will to accept and it was made plenty clear that joining was not conditional for getting Spain just like I didn't force Zoot or Hereno to sign treaties. That doesn't make someone a vassal, that makes someone an ally of their former protector. Only you would consider that vassalization.

[Mogar]

That's the thing. I don't care about it. I don't think the rules as they stand are good rules, and I think they lead to people who have friends getting shafted. Horo and Eva being the first and foremost among people who get called out because they're friends with each other.

But, as it stands, what you did is against the rules and you've straight up said it in your own words. I'm just following the rules that were created by the community - not by me.

As it stands, what I did was give someone I had an IC treaty with land ICly, my OOC friendship allows me to know that if FHIC did decide to attack me tomorrow, it would not be malicious, Ty got islands because he made it clear to me he would not be malicious, you on the other hand, tend to be trolly as $%&@ and go nuclear, so I have some valid reasons to be a bit more wary of giving you a colony.

 

Wait how do you have a 20 something year old girl head of your nation, yet you keep claiming these decades of war build up?  Did she start as a newborn when you started RPing?

2030s technology keeps you youthful! when we first started RPing we were both mid 20s, now we're both late 30s.

 

 

No strategic locations couldn't be annexed during the pause, which wasn't a ruling but something all parties agreed on. Simply facilitated by a GM. Reading comprehension a problem too?

 

Xavier was offered to become a founding member of the Punic League, yes. He used his free will to accept and it was made plenty clear that joining was not conditional for getting Spain just like I didn't force Zoot or Hereno to sign treaties. That doesn't make someone a vassal, that makes someone an ally of their former protector. Only you would consider that vassalization.

 

Except for the fact you did it during a war, which pretty much is padding your stats, I'm certain you'd have problems if FHIC just had 5 more nations roll into France to provide additional navy aircraft and troops, no?

Edited October 30, 2014 by Mogar

[Justinian the Mighty]

This thread has moved far away from the old ways. By that I mean it has nothing to do with its original purpose.

 

 

...Also Mogar is getting some strange and that makes me jelly.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Justinian the Mighty

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Horo and Eva could be Communist and Fascist and still be best friends ICly.

The cognitive dissonance is strong here.

 

I'm just going to say, France-Japan is based on the lesbian relationship of two immature adult monarchs, who clearly have a bit too much power than is good for the country and too little internal opposition.

 

Strategically, the alliance offers nothing. You got a European ally. So, what? Is this some sort of game, where we collect allies according to continent? Damn, I should find myself an asian ally, for I have none. Maybe Lestari is up for it. No, but the Franco-Japanese alliance makes no sense whatsoever politically and is a clear overextension of both sides. All reasons you do name are related to two people sharing a relationshp of sorts.

 

Meanwhile, Prussia and Romania at least share a geographic region, a common interest in regional stability, and while you accuse me of fighting to give Horo land, the fight was most of all to remove Alvonia as a threat to Eastern Europe and get it out of Poland. That Prussia got a lot of land is a. consequence of geographic location. I don't need some exclave inwestern Poland, filled with Poles. It also was a bit of an incentive for Prussia to cooperate. Nothing is free. And while you might have missed it, Prussia and Romania do share a royal dynasty. Family relations are poor and Romanians do kind of ignore the new Hohenzollern monarch, after the old one died, but it should be alone already more than two lesbian monarchs.

 

Also, I think I should take your bet on MGL.

[Centurius]

Except for the fact you did it during a war, which pretty much is padding your stats, I'm certain you'd have problems if FHIC just had 5 more nations roll into France to provide additional navy aircraft and troops, no?

Pretty sure if that were the case I would be pushing for the treaties to go into effect during the war rather than ICly and OOCly establishing they become effective post-war. You're really grasping at straws at this point.

[Mogar]

This thread has moved far away from the old ways. By that I mean it has nothing to do with its original purpose.

 

 

...Also Mogar is getting some strange and that makes me jelly.

Smearing me is easier than acknowledging we have two separate communities that are never going to get along.

 

The cognitive dissonance is strong here.

 

I'm just going to say, France-Japan is based on the lesbian relationship of two immature adult monarchs, who clearly have a bit too much power than is good for the country and too little internal opposition.

 

Strategically, the alliance offers nothing. You got a European ally. So, what? Is this some sort of game, where we collect allies according to continent? Damn, I should find myself an asian ally, for I have none. Maybe Lestari is up for it. No, but the Franco-Japanese alliance makes no sense whatsoever politically and is a clear overextension of both sides. All reasons you do name are related to two people sharing a relationshp of sorts.

 

Meanwhile, Prussia and Romania at least share a geographic region, a common interest in regional stability, and while you accuse me of fighting to give Horo land, the fight was most of all to remove Alvonia as a threat to Eastern Europe and get it out of Poland. That Prussia got a lot of land is a. consequence of geographic location. I don't need some exclave inwestern Poland, filled with Poles. It also was a bit of an incentive for Prussia to cooperate. Nothing is free. And while you might have missed it, Prussia and Romania do share a royal dynasty. Family relations are poor and Romanians do kind of ignore the new Hohenzollern monarch, after the old one died, but it should be alone already more than two lesbian monarchs.

 

Also, I think I should take your bet on MGL.

I was merely pointing out other relations that consisted of less than 5 posts and ended with an MDP or higher, since evidently allying people I am friends with OOC is terrible, but everyone else can do it.

 

Our leaders being close has nothing to do with the fact I provide finished products for France, and France provides me an economic base to expand within Europe with, notably Alvonia and Northlands.

 

Strategically, I gained a nation with absolutely zero tariffs or any other negative economic things holding me back, to build a base within Europe, obviously the strongest region if we're going by pure number of nations, I provide defense for FHIC's Pacific holdings, and we both have a dependable ally we can trust to not abandon us, politically, I am allied to another French speaking nation(GLR), and France's treaty with me is the only reason Tikal did not go to war with France. I also gained backup from you trying to nuke my face off, so we've both gained from it, we have quite literally the same exact type of government, similar ideological beliefs.

 

A threat that you created by strongarming them out of Poland in the first place, yes, those evil Alvonians. You share a royal dynasty because you chose that mutually as your backstory, I'm unsure as to why yours that explains away your close relationship is any less acceptable than ours.

[Lestari]

I was merely pointing out other relations that consisted of less than 5 posts and ended with an MDP or higher, since evidently allying people I am friends with OOC is terrible, but everyone else can do it.

literally the only person who whines incessantly about people allying one another on a basis of OOC friendship is you.

[Mogar]

literally the only person who whines incessantly about people allying one another on a basis of OOC friendship is you.

I'm also the only person whom its perfectly acceptable to constantly make OOC insults towards too, perhaps my whining is linked to other peoples OOC behavior!