Markus Wilding Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 You go on and on about how evil Hungary and Belarus are, when you practically tripped over yourself to ally a state that even mogar admits only existed to troll Hungary and Belarus off the map. I don't care and never said how Hungary and Belarus were evil. That's not the point of my post. My policy with Poland was, at the time, don't mess with it and we will be fine. Rotavele chose to mess with it and paid the price. You chose to mess with it and I asked you to leave, and was told in no uncertain terms that you would keep going until you had finished with your mission, then talk about leaving, then chose to escalate the situation further by bringing in even more soldiers. I won't make any excuses for Tidy's Poland, but if he was coming from my protectorate, you're damn sure I'm going to try to ally him. I did the same with Horo, you know - invited him to Vienna and tried to get an MDP going. And I lived under the threat of nuclear annihilation. Last I checked, you can re-roll whenever you want, not just when you get rolled. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/121846-alvonian-news-and-events/?p=3270846 ^Not very threatening War plans are made that are never enacted all the time. The United States drew up plans to invade Canada, for god's sake. It's all a part of military preparedness. No, I'm not joking. I'm 100% of a serious Austrian. Eurocomm was a trainwreck, afterwards you pretty much, for a limited time swung your weight around (thanks to Zoot's backing) and when Romania was created, you were just trying to strongarm Hungary and Belarus out of rest-Poland (which you got IC interest in, but not really any entitlement over other people). The Carthage Accords were pretty much forced with the threat that otherwise you'd use the Wehrmacht. And you know, the moment you start threatening others with military action, I do kind of think you lost a moral highground to ever claim you were just a victim, when others come and do the same to you in response. Apart from that, feel free to complain, I think you were left with a reasonable amount of your country, you got some territory in exchange, I swatted down reps which were demanded by Euphaia and while a certain someone argued we should take you apart further, no further territorial claims were ever brought forward, out of fairness. And yes, you were a pariah state. [hr] It might be worth noting, that the Snowhaven matter later got retconned, due to the problematic nature of the subject. So, I'd think that what transpired during the matter cannot be really used as proof for later "policies", given it never happened and led to a stronger ruling on locked nation, which was subsequently followed. I never said Eurocomm was perfect - that was in my post you quoted. As to the Wehrmacht threat, that was made evident when Belarus refused to leave like I asked, and then Hungary decided to put offensive missiles on the border. How would you have responded to that? Oh wait. You would have returned fire if they were used. Because I dared to defend myself against an offensive build-up on my border. It's also worth noting that I wasn't making that as evidence. It was just a friendly little reminder you like to meddle in places you shouldn't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm also the only person whom its perfectly acceptable to constantly make OOC insults towards too, perhaps my whining is linked to other peoples OOC behavior! "I am not accountable for how I behave because it's the fault of everyone else." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 "I am not accountable for how I behave because it's the fault of everyone else." "Mogar should be held to a higher standard than everyone else and just let people mock him relentlessly without being able to react." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestari Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 "Mogar should be held to a higher standard than everyone else and just let people mock him relentlessly without being able to react." It's less that people hold you to a higher standard of behaviour so much that you clearly hold yourself to an abysmally lower standard of behaviour than you do everybody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's less that people hold you to a higher standard of behaviour so much that you clearly hold yourself to an abysmally lower standard of behaviour than you do everybody else. Anyone who treats me with respect gets it in return, I get along very well with half of the community in fact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestari Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Anyone who treats me with respect gets it in return, I get along very well with half of the community in fact! Too bad you've demonstrated how little you deserve to be treated with respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Too bad you've demonstrated how little you deserve to be treated with respect. by being disrespectful to those who are disrespectful to me? yes, I'm sure that makes plenty of sense, unless you're referring to the other topic you bitched about the other evening, of which I have provided extensive evidence to prove I did nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestari Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 by being disrespectful to those who are disrespectful to me? yes, I'm sure that makes plenty of sense, unless you're referring to the other topic you !@#$%*ed about the other evening, of which I have provided extensive evidence to prove I did nothing wrong. No, you writhed and wriggled your way about like a worm trying to put the blame on literally anything but you, which is what you always do and always will do when confronted about your own shitty behaviour. You've provided no such evidence in your favour, but every word you say is providing evidence against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 No, you writhed and wriggled your way about like a worm trying to put the blame on literally anything but you, which is what you always do and always will do when confronted about your own !@#$%* behaviour. You've provided no such evidence in your favour, but every word you say is providing evidence against you. I can be incredibly antagonistic to those who behave negatively towards me, and have made no attempt to pretend I am nice to people who are not nice to me, but yet, I get along with plenty of people who are nice to me, so perhaps if I do not get along with someone it is a mutual problem, and not simply upon my end. If the accuser would like, I can provide that evidence to whomever, however I do not feel it would be appropriate to do so, as such I provided it to those whom the accusation was brought to, since what I was accused of is quite serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Smearing me is easier than acknowledging we have two separate communities that are never going to get along. I was merely pointing out other relations that consisted of less than 5 posts and ended with an MDP or higher, since evidently allying people I am friends with OOC is terrible, but everyone else can do it. Our leaders being close has nothing to do with the fact I provide finished products for France, and France provides me an economic base to expand within Europe with, notably Alvonia and Northlands. Strategically, I gained a nation with absolutely zero tariffs or any other negative economic things holding me back, to build a base within Europe, obviously the strongest region if we're going by pure number of nations, I provide defense for FHIC's Pacific holdings, and we both have a dependable ally we can trust to not abandon us, politically, I am allied to another French speaking nation(GLR), and France's treaty with me is the only reason Tikal did not go to war with France. I also gained backup from you trying to nuke my face off, so we've both gained from it, we have quite literally the same exact type of government, similar ideological beliefs. A threat that you created by strongarming them out of Poland in the first place, yes, those evil Alvonians. You share a royal dynasty because you chose that mutually as your backstory, I'm unsure as to why yours that explains away your close relationship is any less acceptable than ours. The reasons... I was merely pointing out other relations that consisted of less than 5 posts and ended with an MDP or higher, since evidently allying people I am friends with OOC is terrible, but everyone else can do it. IC interest is not how many posts there are, but whether IC logic would say so. The amount of posts I spent on the MDP with Triyun is surely less than all character RP between you and FHIC. yet, there's a legitimate reason for it, given similar objectives and the actual need to combine efforts, given that Triyun was kind of dependent on continental countries from the very beginning and the security system built around the bloc crumbled. Our leaders being close has nothing to do with the fact I provide finished products for France, and France provides me an economic base to expand within Europe with, notably Alvonia and Northlands. PRC-USA, where is this alliance? Xi-Obama is the OTP! No, really. someone buying your finished products (I guess you mean missiles and bioweaponry, given you are a war economy for decades already), isn't a real reason to ally. Economic investment isn't one either. Especially as Lynneth was bankrolling you, so where's your capital? Strategically, I gained a nation with absolutely zero tariffs or any other negative economic things holding me back, to build a base within Europe, obviously the strongest region if we're going by pure number of nations, I provide defense for FHIC's Pacific holdings, and we both have a dependable ally we can trust to not abandon us, politically, I am allied to another French speaking nation(GLR), and France's treaty with me is the only reason Tikal did not go to war with France. I also gained backup from you trying to nuke my face off, so we've both gained from it, we have quite literally the same exact type of government, similar ideological beliefs. USA-PRC, it needs to happen! Just look, both got a Korean-speaking ally. Well, both also share relations with Pakistan. A threat that you created by strongarming them out of Poland in the first place, yes, those evil Alvonians. You share a royal dynasty because you chose that mutually as your backstory, I'm unsure as to why yours that explains away your close relationship is any less acceptable than ours. Well, it's RL already that way, given the House of Romania is the House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, cadet branch of Hohenzollern. If you want to talk about "explaining away", how about, why are two prime examples of agnatic primogeniture ruled by women, who are handed pretty much unreasonable amounts of power (even absolute rulers have a court opposition), and despite all conservativism that is associated with monarchy, they are lesbians. Don't talk to me about "explaining away". The ties between Prussia and Romania do have their reasons and if you claim that was conveniently set up this way, you might very well think so, I couldn't possibly comment. I for my part do not raise complaints against people who prefer to RP together and have fun as friends and set their RP up in a credible way to facilitate that. I mean, if FHIC was, say, Korea and you'd be friendly towards each other, only fighting every now and then over who invented what cultural icon of your country, I'd nt see an issue with it. But don't try argue that France-Japan makes any political sense. Because it simply is just a treaty for OOC convenience. I'm also the only person whom its perfectly acceptable to constantly make OOC insults towards too, perhaps my whining is linked to other peoples OOC behavior! Perhaps the bad opinion of your person some people tend to have is linked towards to the immaturity shown with comments such as these. Issue is, you not just insult people who insulted you, you insult everyone who ever does anything that goes against your will. Then you claim you are allowed to do that, cause god knows who insulted you once. And those who obstruct you are clearly their cronies... Anyone who treats me with respect gets it in return, I get along very well with half of the community in fact! Guess what, Triyun gets along very well with half the community. I never said Eurocomm was perfect - that was in my post you quoted. As to the Wehrmacht threat, that was made evident when Belarus refused to leave like I asked, and then Hungary decided to put offensive missiles on the border. How would you have responded to that? Oh wait. You would have returned fire if they were used. Because I dared to defend myself against an offensive build-up on my border. It's also worth noting that I wasn't making that as evidence. It was just a friendly little reminder you like to meddle in places you shouldn't be. So, you tell me I shouldn't meddle in Poland on behalf of my allies. I guess you and Rudolph also tell Cent that he shouldn't be in Europe. And Nutmeg shouldn't be in Savoy. Who gave you the authority to tell people where they should or shouldn't be? Did we vote on that? For the record, Austrians are no more Polish than Romanians. Byelorussians at least share the Slavdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 who has actually been OOC disrespectful to you though?apart from me, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Wilding Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 So, you tell me I shouldn't meddle in Poland on behalf of my allies. I guess you and Rudolph also tell Cent that he shouldn't be in Europe. And Nutmeg shouldn't be in Savoy. Who gave you the authority to tell people where they should or shouldn't be? Did we vote on that? For the record, Austrians are no more Polish than Romanians. Byelorussians at least share the Slavdom. What ties have you to Italy? What ties have you to Switzerland? What ties have you to France? The answer is none, you cannot speak for these people and yet you were one of those at the negotiating table in the wiped French Connection thread. Rudolph was accepted as a mediator, as far as I was concerned you were trying to push your own agenda there and nothing more. For the record, yes, it is my opinion IC that Carthage should not be in Europe, but any reasoning I give to you won't be satisfactory so I won't waste my time typing. And for the record, I have RPed numerous times that I have Polish government members and army units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horo the Wise Wolf Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Our leaders being close has nothing to do with the fact I provide finished products for France, and France provides me an economic base to expand within Europe with, notably Alvonia and Northlands. Strategically, I gained a nation with absolutely zero tariffs or any other negative economic things holding me back, to build a base within Europe, obviously the strongest region if we're going by pure number of nations, I provide defense for FHIC's Pacific holdings, and we both have a dependable ally we can trust to not abandon us, politically, I am allied to another French speaking nation(GLR), and France's treaty with me is the only reason Tikal did not go to war with France. I also gained backup from you trying to nuke my face off, so we've both gained from it, we have quite literally the same exact type of government, similar ideological beliefs. That is how trade works. I imagine that you provide finished products for most of the nations on the globe. Also, that is not how global corporations work either. You don't just sit on your industry in your home nation and export everything. You build factories in other countries (FDI) and just go around from there. Much cheaper that way, and you avoid that whole tariff issue anyway. Furthermore, FHIC giving you a "base" in Europe doesn't magically mean you are exempt from the tariffs of sending your goods from France to other nations. Basic economics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The reasons... IC interest is not how many posts there are, but whether IC logic would say so. The amount of posts I spent on the MDP with Triyun is surely less than all character RP between you and FHIC. yet, there's a legitimate reason for it, given similar objectives and the actual need to combine efforts, given that Triyun was kind of dependent on continental countries from the very beginning and the security system built around the bloc crumbled. PRC-USA, where is this alliance? Xi-Obama is the OTP! No, really. someone buying your finished products (I guess you mean missiles and bioweaponry, given you are a war economy for decades already), isn't a real reason to ally. Economic investment isn't one either. Especially as Lynneth was bankrolling you, so where's your capital? USA-PRC, it needs to happen! Just look, both got a Korean-speaking ally. Well, both also share relations with Pakistan. Well, it's RL already that way, given the House of Romania is the House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, cadet branch of Hohenzollern. If you want to talk about "explaining away", how about, why are two prime examples of agnatic primogeniture ruled by women, who are handed pretty much unreasonable amounts of power (even absolute rulers have a court opposition), and despite all conservativism that is associated with monarchy, they are lesbians. Don't talk to me about "explaining away". The ties between Prussia and Romania do have their reasons and if you claim that was conveniently set up this way, you might very well think so, I couldn't possibly comment. I for my part do not raise complaints against people who prefer to RP together and have fun as friends and set their RP up in a credible way to facilitate that. I mean, if FHIC was, say, Korea and you'd be friendly towards each other, only fighting every now and then over who invented what cultural icon of your country, I'd nt see an issue with it. But don't try argue that France-Japan makes any political sense. Because it simply is just a treaty for OOC convenience. Perhaps the bad opinion of your person some people tend to have is linked towards to the immaturity shown with comments such as these. Issue is, you not just insult people who insulted you, you insult everyone who ever does anything that goes against your will. Then you claim you are allowed to do that, cause god knows who insulted you once. And those who obstruct you are clearly their cronies... Guess what, Triyun gets along very well with half the community. So, you tell me I shouldn't meddle in Poland on behalf of my allies. I guess you and Rudolph also tell Cent that he shouldn't be in Europe. And Nutmeg shouldn't be in Savoy. Who gave you the authority to tell people where they should or shouldn't be? Did we vote on that? For the record, Austrians are no more Polish than Romanians. Byelorussians at least share the Slavdom. ICly we have similar Ideology and similar long term goals for the world, that is not a reason to stand together? PRC-USA have very different ideologies, and the US is allies with nearly every single enemy of the PRC in their local sphere. Economic relations are a reason for me to ally someone, ensuring you will not ever be fighting one another ensures that market stays open. except again, very different ideologies on a state level, of course you know this already. ICly my japan actually changed their laws to allow for female succession, due to RL japan not currently having a male heir. FHIC on the other hand, I believe gained power through military conquest, not through bloodline. States are conservative, do you see our leaders making out publicly? My leader is incredibly liberal and has a much more americanized belief system, which includes sexuality not really fucking mattering. Surely there is no historical basis for Japan and France being friendly. Except those who actually take the time to speak to me tend to become friendly, regardless of previous relations, due to me actually being willing to discuss with nearly anyone whatever, so long as they are discussing it respectfully. Who gave Triyun, Cent and yourself the authority to be the only people with a say in European politics? Did we vote for that? who has actually been OOC disrespectful to you though? apart from me, that is. In the past 2 hours? Dotcom and Voodoo in #cnrp2, I'm sure if I scrolled I could find more. That is how trade works. I imagine that you provide finished products for most of the nations on the globe. Also, that is not how global corporations work either. You don't just sit on your industry in your home nation and export everything. You build factories in other countries (FDI) and just go around from there. Much cheaper that way, and you avoid that whole tariff issue anyway. Furthermore, FHIC giving you a "base" in Europe doesn't magically mean you are exempt from the tariffs of sending your goods from France to other nations. Basic economics It provides me with a place to import civilian products (automotive and electronics), which can then be transported elsewhere, obviously it does not exempt me from other nations tarriffs but it does provide my nation with some profit, GLR with some profit, and France with some profit, all of our nations gaining by my trade, which makes for a mutually beneficial relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestari Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 In the past 2 hours? Dotcom and Voodoo in #cnrp2, I'm sure if I scrolled I could find more. prompted in large part by the fact that you were about to start beating the 'voodoo is a puppet of the tricenteline tripartite' dead horse again, so we decided to put you on ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm glad to see you can rationalize your own OOC insults, but mine are unacceptable, seems like you are holding my behavior to a higher standard than your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestari Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 You earned said insults with behaviour no real standards can excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 What ties have you to Italy? What ties have you to Switzerland? What ties have you to France? The answer is none, you cannot speak for these people and yet you were one of those at the negotiating table in the wiped French Connection thread. Rudolph was accepted as a mediator, as far as I was concerned you were trying to push your own agenda there and nothing more. For the record, yes, it is my opinion IC that Carthage should not be in Europe, but any reasoning I give to you won't be satisfactory so I won't waste my time typing. And for the record, I have RPed numerous times that I have Polish government members and army units. Yes, I was there to push my own agenda: To have you know that you can't just try pressure Nutmeg. The fact alone that you were involved is reason enough for me to be involved and I made such clear to others, such as Rudolph and Lyser, that I'm mostly there to prevent you from messing up European order, not for anything else. And you can't even claim that I'm not part of the continent... Also, I seemingly had enough interest in the matter to be there. Who gave Triyun, Cent and yourself the authority to be the only people with a say in European politics? Did we vote for that? Noone. Ty, Lyser, Jed, MrDirector, Horo, ... to some degree have a say in politics, dependent on their standing and their willingness to say something. The European community of nations arranges itself, mostly. And there is no rule that says you can't try exert influence in Europe. But there also is no rule saying I or others can't go kick you out for meddling in our neighbourhood. Maybe not friendly, but 100% IC motivated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Director Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) I won't make any excuses for Tidy's Poland, but if he was coming from my protectorate, you're damn sure I'm going to try to ally him. Then don't be surprised when you receive the same or worse treatment you helped tidy give me. You rushed to ally a state you knew full well existed only troll Belarus off the map, and then you expect me to not be suspicious of your intents? Edited October 30, 2014 by Mr Director Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Then don't be surprised when you receive the same or worse treatment you helped tidy give me. so someone trolling you a bit IC means you should completely destroy another person's ability to RP anything meaningful for months on end? just so we're clear here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Director Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) so someone trolling you a bit IC means you should completely destroy another person's ability to RP anything meaningful for months on end? just so we're clear here. It has been two months, and there have been plenty of chances for him to rp, instead of burning his remaining bridges. Just so we're clear here. Edited October 30, 2014 by Mr Director Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It has been two months, and there have been plenty of chances for him to rp, instead of burning his remaining bridges. Just so we're clear here. His choices are to suck up to those who have rolled him repeatedly, or seek allies that will prevent him from being allied further, he went with the latter option, I assume you would too if you were in that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Director Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 His choices are to suck up to those who have rolled him repeatedly, or seek allies that will prevent him from being allied further, he went with the latter option, I assume you would too if you were in that position. ... Not grabbing Switzerland due to someone else's OOC claims is also a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 First, we did not roll him repeatedly. We kicked him once and told him to not threaten the peace again. The issue with Markus is, that he pretty much just grumpily went off and after a few weeks, he causes the next crisis by sending troops into Switzerland. He hardly ever tried rebuild the bridges he burned and never gave reason to really trust him. In the end, he was too stubborn and that he actually still matters politically, is not because he himself did much, but because Rudy thinks he needs to protect him and Lyser finds it funny, I guess. Also, because it's one of the few allies FHIC has in Europe. Honestly, it's a bit saying that in Europe there's like four countries (FHIC, Rudolph, Euphaia, Markus) fighting five countries (Triyun, MrDirector, Kevz, Sarah, me) currently, with eight countries (Lyser, Ty, Jed, IA, Horo, Nutmeg, Hereno, Zoot) still uninvolved. I'm not so sure you claim to be the "oppressed masses of Europe" as much as just a handful nations who feel wronged for one or the other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Lyser is involved, Zoot Ty Jed and Nutmeg are busy IRL, Hereno likely is letting it solve itself, IA doesnt give a shit so long as it doesnt involve him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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