The secrets out.

[Justinian the Mighty]

Dont think this is the best way to tell Cent and Triyun they hurt your feelings. Ignoring the problem doesnt make it go away. Triyun and I werent always on the best terms, but we both learned to work with each other productively. For those of you who have already decided to take a different course of action, good. For the hold-outs, take a page from the others book and consider a different route, because this one doesnt lead to a long-term solution.

Edit: Also Vektor is evil, and I hereby start my own campaign to ignore him... as soon as we conclude our diplomatic meeting.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Justinian the Mighty

[Mogar]

 

I am much in agreement with dotCom. After following the discussion in #cnrp, I have decided that a) Some of my grievances with Triyun and Cent are somewhat fictitious and imaginary stemming from sympathy with other players, and b) the idea of "splitting" cnrp is foolish, it has happened before, and the outcome has been the split falling into inactivity and despair. All that this would really accomplish is isolating ourselves from the active minority of cnrp (let's be honest, a lot of us that have signed up to this aren't that active [or maybe I'm projecting my own inactivity onto others...]). I support Melech's idea much more.

After the irc convo this is basically how I feel as well, I genuinely believe we all need to sit down as a community and figure out how to make this community not such a !@#$%*fest.

23:55:26 <+Mogar> i definitely think we could have all figured out a better solution then making a new sandbox

Edited January 15, 2014 by Mogar

[Generalissimo]

Dont think this is the best way to tell Cent and Triyun they hurt your feelings. 

Triyun has a habit of brushing off everything less drastic thus far.

 

Ignoring the problem doesnt make it go away. 

Sure it does. 

[Beauty]

I'm insulted. First, I've nuked people for no reason. I've committed genocide (ICly), I've subjugated an entire continent, I've launched wars for unjust reasons, and I've bullied countless of nations. Yet, I'm not on that least to be ignored/swiped/forced to reroll or whatever. Honestly, I've done more harm than cent and triyun could ever do. This little petition is based purely on jealousy. If you can't beat'em..just take a ball and go home.
 
This is the problem with CNRP today.

  

Dont think this is the best way to tell Cent and Triyun they hurt your feelings. Ignoring the problem doesnt make it go away. Triyun and I werent always on the best terms, but we both learned to work with each other productively. For those of you who have already decided to take a different course of action, good. For the hold-outs, take a page from the others book and consider a different route, because this one doesnt lead to a long-term solution.Edit: Also Vektor is evil, and I hereby start my own campaign to ignore him... as soon as we conclude our diplomatic meeting.

The problem isn't bad actions. The problem is that they've been so "invincible" for so long and pulling so much stuff out of their ass that the majority is no longer enjoying the game and can't enjoy having them around. I've said this for a long time and so has many others. It's beyond obvious, and if you can't realize it by now, I don't know what to tell you.

Also maltose's actions from what I recall were kind of fun and enjoyable. Yes they were morally horrible however Malatose wouldn't try to be invincible. That's the difference. It's just not fun to play with someone who can't accept losing.

The most scary part to me though is that for the longest time, several years, Triyun and Cent played CNRP and always bitched and whined about everyone doing the exact same thing that they have started doing. Now they've became that person they hated so much. However, what can we do to prevent this from happening again? We need to find out what went wrong for Triyun and Cent to get so idiotic rather than just punish them.

I more than happily agree to support this. However if you think those two have cried all over these forums a few years ago, then just wait till more people jump onto this. No fear though, I can't imagine how much faster this community will grow with so much open land and so many more friendly people to play with. We should hopefully get more cool people here.

[iamthey]

Well this was pretty clearly botched. I can't say I didn't try to advise you all on constructive ways to approach the problem. In either case I'm disappointed that after assurances to the contrary it came out in this form (and with my name on it no less) but whatever.
 
The leak certainly didn't help either, I just hope south america was worth it.

[Zoot Zoot]

With the support that left this movement, and the alternative thread yielding results and discussion, I am also taking myself out of this movement. It was a long shot to start with, but the way things have turned out overnight in regards to this, I am happy with the direction things have gone.

[lkfht]

I repeal my name as well.

[Triyun]

With the support that left this movement, and the alternative thread yielding results and discussion, I am also taking myself out of this movement. It was a long shot to start with, but the way things have turned out overnight in regards to this, I am happy with the direction things have gone.

 

Alternatively you could have actually talked to us politely instead of yelling at us in chat.  Its important to clarify we didn't come to this conclusions cause you did this.  This move was despicable.  Nobody can remove anyone from the community except the mods.  We said these things when people told us their grievances and we pointed out where we actually had common ground in a polite manner.  Moving the tech scale down to 2020 and other things are things Cent and I have been in favor with for years.  Its better to discuss specifics rather than villify, I'm very disappointed that you did have to go this route.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Triyun

[Zoot Zoot]

When I have tried to talk to you about this, you say one of three things:

"sort it ICly, get a coalition and war me" - not feasible

"I got to where I am through years of RP and I am not a bully, why is it my fault?" - goes back to that long discussion we did have that got us nowhere about I feel that you are a bully, and you disagreed with me on a fundamental level, which is something you have no right to do as your not in a position to dictate to people how your play style, behavior and attitude makes them feel.

 

the final one is a mixed answer of the other two.

"Why is it my fault, I got here legitimately, so sort it out ICly, get a coalition and war me"

 

The only reason I "yell" at you in chat, is because frankly, why should you care about how you make people feel on the internet? I yell because every time the issue is raised with you about how you are ruining CNRP, it gets ignored and brushed off and we are back to the first three responses you usually come up with.

 

The main reason for publishing a list was so you could see a physical representation of just how many people you are making feel about RPing within CNRP with you at the top of the table, and after your own admission in this thread about how heavy handed you can be. but what you think is a reasonable style of role play comes across to us as dominating. An example is this. When Ishabad tried to fly a plane into Copenhagen, and I shot it down and then went to the UN to get permission to use military force, it was denied, now that is fine. What wasn't fine, was Cent telling me in IRC afterwards, that even if military action was permitted, I myself as an RPer, would not be permitted to do it, and the UNSC nations would undertake it, which basically meant I would not have been able to fight my own war. That is oppressive, even if it is not the intention, but it takes away the persons right to RP what they want to RP.

You can be disappointed all you like, but you have not been a position for over 18 months now in which you have felt you can't RP some of the things you want to RP, because somebody else is going to come along and get involved, or roll you, or bomb you and put strict terms on you, or make you swear allegiance to their emperor.

 

That's not humiliating in an RP sense, that's humiliating on a personal and RL level, because it puts me for example, in a position where I am subservient to you not just IC, but OOCly as well, and I know your going to respond to that bit and claim its not OOCly humiliating at all, but it bloody well is Triyun and its that sort of play style and attitude and behavior which forced our hand because it was the only way we could either get you off the map and force you to re-roll so your iron grip as it were, was removed, or that the number of names on the list would make you sit back and think "Perhaps they have a point and I need to take a long hard look at how I affect everyone around me" and it clearly has done, because this thread is the most constructive and polite I have ever seen you when your style of RP is under question. because now you know that it causes problems and its a major source of negativity and stagnation within the community. People wont RP what they want because you will bomb them. Or Cent will, and the flip side to that is, is that Cent can be spoken to and he will listen, but you never did.

 

I honestly hope that you take something from this whole experience and learn from it because I know I have done, and that it took such an extreme measure to make you seriously listen to us and take on board our concerns without you dismissing them, and that says a lot to start with. I sincerely hope that by the end of this thread, serious changes are made, not just in how you treat people, but in the CNRP system itself, and if that means a map reset and a new, more in depth set of rules, not guidelines, rules that are NOT open to interpretation, and any other sweeping changes people have suggested, then so be it. But from what I have read so far? we are heading in the right direction, so thank you for standing up to the repercussions of your style, attitude and behavior and thank you for your willingness to listen to them.

[Triyun]

Being polite in policy conversations is part of being a mature human being.  Internet or not, your mother should've taught you that.  If you aren't polite I'm not inclined to cooperate, if you are I will at least hear you out even if I don't agree (unless you're being polite while being racist or something).  Its as simple as good manners.

 

Tianxia is not the source of my power, my power is the source of Tianxia's preeminence, reroll or not.  I would retain my strength.  Further with the sole exception of Curri who I originally gave a pass in the map thread, nobody has been forced to swear allegiance to the Emperor.  Even the degree to which Curri was forced is questionable.  Considering I never made any IC threats and made an OOC joke about it.  Melech, Eva, Horo, were the ones who did and all chose to voluntarily.  

 

I would challenge you to actually go and ask people like Sarah, Shammy, who've talked to me when there have been concerns, been polite and seen what the result is.  I think you'll find it very different from your experience.  My feeling is that your experience has been so cantankerous because you've had bad manners.  I'm disinclined to help people who start off a conversation saying how horrible a person I am.  I'm inclined to help people who are polite.  Being polite isn't the same as being a bitch, its the same as being a well adjusted human being.  

 

If you want a prime example of this I would urge you to look at Cochin, whom I gave land twice.  If Cochin got active (and I have no idea if he would at any point have time to do that), he'd rapidly rise to be the second most powerful nation on the Asian land mass, #2 or #3 globally.  He and I had a very difficult relationship with both claiming large parts of Xinjiang and Tibet, China and India both having deep historical interests in the Himalayas and Burma which currently are in Tianxia, and YET despite all that he got a condition less independence from me twice, including one time only a few months after a very contentious war.  We agreed to an MDP but it was never explicitly or implicitly said this was a condition for independence.  Instead we just had a very polite and too the point dialogue.  Eva knows I had difficulty letting go of Japan for sentimental reasons but she asked we came to an understanding and I think she would say I was very sympathetic to her concerns asking if things were ok along the way several times.  The point here is that you do not really have good examples of your complaint.  Instead you let your rage and prejudice cloud better judgement and actual investigating and finding out the facts of the case.  Coming to me and asking for information in a non-accusatory, non-anagonistic manner, I think you'd find a much different reception and maybe some facts that you have not thought of.

 

In regards to the OOC humiliation, I'm sorry but if that's the case that it rises to humiliation, that's on you.  I understand 100 percent annoyance and aggravation, we're all human and feel that.  But humiliation at least in the term I think of it.  I do not believe IC action ever rises to that unless it was something along the lines of someone RPing a character that has your real name doing something which violates the user agreement of this board.  

[Zoot Zoot]

And your whole post is where myself and you fundamentally disagree. You have an excuse for everything, and don't just target me either, there were 15 names on that list if you minus TBM's, so its not just a problem I have. The very fact that you have resorted to personal attacks only harms you, not me, not when I came into this as polite as I am ever going to get on this topic where you are concerned and we both know that, so take it for what it is.

 

The mods cannot force us to role-play with you by the way, I just saw that edit. I made clear that we did not want you to leave the community. So whilst we cannot force you to leave, the mods equally can force  any one of us, never mind over half of the community to RP with you. Even you would get bored very quickly playing with the five or six other people who were not in the post.

 

You enjoy a far different relationship with Shammy and Sarah and so is not really the issue at hand. The relationships you have with other members, are not the relationships that being questioned.

 

But that aside, I have said my piece and so I go with my peace and focus on the issue at hand now that the direction has changed.

[Triyun]

Zoot you went after people personally, I've not attacked you, merely said you needed to be polite and not take false credit for forcing change, by doing an incredibly dangerous tactic of dividing the community, which is what you did.  Lyn and IAT both said not just TBM they never agreed to be on your petition.  Melech has said he was against wiping and favored IC means.  Most others have recanted it.  To say 15 people were wanting me wiped is a lie and a dangerous one, which does reflect poorly on you and something you should apologize for.

 

You alone were the one who said that you wanted to take a cleaver to player participation who didn't violate one rule, not me, not Cent.  I'm willing to forgive a lot, but you taking one ounce of credit after pulling this stunt by us agreeing to something we PROPOSED over a year ago, is flat out insulting and then continuing to outright lie about the number of people wanting us gone is even more so.  That goes beyond the pale and demonstrates a bias and lack of manner totally unbecoming.

[Centurius]

Can we please let this thing rest and work towards the future.

[Voodoo Nova]

This is fucking retarded.