The GM's Court

[Triyun]

1-50: Pass
51-100: Fail

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/72/picture27t.png/#
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8268/picture28il.png

First roll fails, second roll passes.

[Executive Minister]

Does this mean I can take both passes ? In any case, thank you for the quick responses!

[Centurius]

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1324232892' post='2881258']
Does this mean I can take both passes ? In any case, thank you for the quick responses!
[/quote]

Hehe well played, and no problem.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Centurius

[Triyun]

You get Cent's as he posted first.

[Zoot Zoot]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107674&view=findpost&p=2882320

I want this post wiped please. Kankou has never RP'd survailance on the Templars, she has never RP'd infiltrating them, she has no idea what is going on in south america, its a closed thread. She seems completly unaware of the fact that the Templars have no affiliation with the Fortress anymore after abandoning it, nore the fact that they landed in Siberia some months ago and just did nothing the entire time before coming south america.

I leave this to you GM's.

[Captain Enema]

Jesus Zoot, take it up with Kankou first. If she/he is a belligerent tosser about it.. then ask the GMs to mediate. We are trying to get away from this whole power of god thing with them.

It puts us and them in a bad spot.

[Triyun]

Unless Kankou can provide explanation, this seems grounds for a wipe.

[Kankou]

Well, a 14 day march comprised of tens of thousands of people would be noticeable by any "modern" nation, so I was under the assumption that I would be able to see it/ be notified by the media any country with connections to South America. I would say Zoot needed to be a bit more specific as to how "secret" and "silent" the entire march is. Furthermore, the most I was going to do is get some satellites up and have one be focused on South America from now on (basically, a "comment").

The parts of the Templars was my overlooking, although it would have been nice if Zoot would be so kind as to write a bit more understandably (I mean, Blanc did say outright in public he was the Grandmaster of the Knights Templar).

And finally, I agree with Tidy Bowl Man.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Kankou

[Zoot Zoot]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1324354023' post='2882348']
Well, a 14 day march comprised of tens of thousands of people would be noticeable by any "modern" nation, so I was under the assumption that I would be able to see it/ be notified by the media any country with connections to South America. I would say Zoot needed to be a bit more specific as to how "secret" and "silent" the entire march is. Furthermore, the most I was going to do is get some satellites up and have one be focused on South America from now on (basically, a "comment").

The parts of the Templars was my overlooking, although it would have been nice if Zoot would be so kind as to write a bit more understandable.

And finally, I agree with Tidy Bowl Man.
[/quote]

So the whole "Closed RP" tags, was not a big clue not to post? Furthermore, how would you know it was the Templars, you were actually specific on that point. There is actually, like literally, no reason for you to even put satellites up. If satellites aint up in the first place, how would they notice the movements, secondly, the movements are not near any borders at the moment. finally, my nation has no connections to nearby Nations apart from Lynneth, and he is on the other side of the continent.

Edit

Nice ninja edit thar. Unless you had somebody in that crowd, then that point is moot.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Zoot Zoot

[Kankou]

I take "Closed RP" to mean others would not be able to interfere with the RP itself, not some free pass where any and all activity would be instantly hidden from everyone else. If I blew up a hydrogen bomb in Grand Papua in a closed RP, that would only mean no unauthorized people would be able to intervene, not that no one would be able to see the explosion. A large moment involving tens of thousands would be found out one way or another, by satellite, by the movement of ships (you did move ten thousand knights, and that would have been known if you went through the Panama Canal or through the waters of Southeast Asia. The Cone is, from what I know, impassable under Shadowsage's policy), or by simple word of mouth (it has been two weeks, enough time for things to spread to New Roma and thus to the world). Therefore, it is quite possible for almost any non-isolationist nation to at least get something noticed.

Basically, I see no reason why Grand Papua would not be able to know something big was going on. However, as I said, I overlooked the Templar part, and would edit that out.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Kankou

[Zoot Zoot]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1324355176' post='2882361']
I take "Closed RP" to mean others would not be able to interfere with the RP itself, not some free pass where any and all activity would be instantly hidden from everyone else. If I blew up a hydrogen bomb in Grand Papua in a closed RP, that would only mean no unauthorized people would be able to intervene, not that no one would be able to see the explosion. A large moment involving tens of thousands would be found out one way or another, by satellite, by the movement of ships (you did move ten thousand knights, and that would have been known if you went through the Panama Canal or through the waters of Southeast Asia. The Cone is, from what I know, impassable under Shadowsage's policy), or by simple word of mouth (it has been two weeks, enough time for things to spread to New Roma and thus to the world). Therefore, it is quite possible for almost any non-isolationist nation to at least get something noticed.

Basically, I see no reason why Grand Papua would not be able to know something big was going on. However, as I said, I overlooked the Templar part, and would edit that out.
[/quote]

Two ships Kankou, 5000 men each. Im not moving tanks and !@#$, just men.
Secondly, I could of gone over the Pole, and the Panama canal is international territory which hundreds of ships pass through every day.
Lastly, Why are you even posting in my thread Kankou. It doesnt concern you and You didnt do this for any other player who recently underwent a change in Government such as Sarah, Curritan, Shammy, Markus, or anyone else bangwagoning on the communist bandwagon.

As for word of mouth, New Roma fortified the border, I did not, so why would people cross the river? especially as that is in the south. and its the north in revolt. The rebels have only just GOT to the south, and even then, not to any settlements. The way I did the RP was so that the north and the south have seperate loyalties at the moment. So please, stop trying to tell me what my own people are doing when I didnt RP it, especially as now im explaining it to you, you dont have the excuse of not understanding what i wrote.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Zoot Zoot

[Kankou]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1324355551' post='2882365']
Two ships Kankou, 5000 men each. Im not moving tanks and !@#$, just men.
Secondly, I could of gone over the Pole, and the Panama canal is international territory.[/quote]
Any ships with 5000 men would be very noticable, and since the Panama is international territory, anyone would be able to access what passes by. The point about the Pole is okay, although I wondering why no country would be !@#$% about two large "flagless" ships breaking through the ice.

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1324355551' post='2882365']Lastly, Why are you even posting in my thread Kankou. It doesnt concern you and You didnt do this for any other player who recently underwent a change in Government such as Sarah, Curritan, Shammy, Markus, or anyone else bangwagoning on the communist bandwagon.[/quote]
Because I was too busy with RL (although I did respond to Sarah in the beginning). I will get to the general communist changes later this week, along with a few South American RPs.

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1324355551' post='2882365']As for word of mouth, New Roma fortified the border, I did not, so why would people cross the river? especially as that is in the south. and its the north in revolt. The rebels have only just GOT to the south, and even then, not to any settlements. The way I did the RP was so that the north and the south have seperate loyalties at the moment. So please, stop trying to tell me what my own people are doing when I didnt RP it, especially as now im explaining it to you, you dont have the excuse of not understanding what i wrote.
[/quote]
Again, you have at least a starting ten thousand people marching. Unless the entire country was so crappy people did not go back and forth or was so totalitarian that no one trusted another, a country which is mostly rolling plains like Uruguay is a place where information of such large movements would move across to the other side in a few days. This isn't telling you what your people are doing: this is basic human interaction, which you would need specific writing to block, not assuming people would go against their human instincts. The main point is, you really need to write things more tightly if you want things to go completely your way.


I will edit out the RP if you wish, but take this as an advice that you really should stop opening too many holes in your general writing.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Kankou

[Zoot Zoot]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1324356486' post='2882374']
Any ships with 5000 men would be very noticable, and since the Panama is international territory, anyone would be able to access what passes by. The point about the Pole is okay, although I wondering why no country would be !@#$% about two large "flagless" ships breaking through the ice.


Because I was too busy with RL (although I did respond to Sarah in the beginning). I will get to the general communist changes later this week, along with a few South American RPs.


Again, you have at least a starting ten thousand people marching. Unless the entire country was so crappy people did not go back and forth or was so totalitarian that no one trusted another, a country which is mostly rolling plains like Uruguay is a place where information of such large movements would move across to the other side in a few days. This isn't telling you what your people are doing: this is basic human interaction, which you would need specific writing to block, not assuming people would go against their human instincts. The main point is, you really need to write things more tightly if you want things to go completely your way.


I will edit out the RP if you wish, but take this as an advice that you really should stop opening too many holes in your general writing.
[/quote]

Im sure the RL excuse is perfectly valid, I just fail to see how that implicates me as nothing is public and its a closed RP. Uruguay and south brazil is actually VERY mountainous. Not rolling plains at all. thats why i aint going right down the middle of the country and im having to go all the way around. Secondly a ship with 5000 men could just be any old cruise ship or an oil tanker with converted storage tanks for beds and stuff. Hell, an aircraft carrier could do it.

I rather would like you to remove your post. I wont lie, Its not wanted, or appreciated.

[Kankou]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1324356792' post='2882377']Im sure the RL excuse is perfectly valid, I just fail to see how that implicates me as nothing is public and its a closed RP.[/quote]
Already explained about nothing being "public" and the "Closed RP" issue. Again, closed RP is not a free pass to do something big without anyone noticing. That's just bad RP.

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1324356792' post='2882377']Uruguay and south brazil is actually VERY mountainous. Not rolling plains at all.[/quote]
Elevations seldom exceed 200 meters in Northern Uruguay, although I might have overlooked Southern Brazil's geography.

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1324356792' post='2882377']I rather would like you to remove your post. I wont lie, Its not wanted, or appreciated.[/quote]
Done.

[Captain Enema]

I think you are free to notice, but probably in another thread is my guess.

[VigilantWatcher]

I would like to make a complaint about PresidentDavid godmodding in this post:

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107558&view=findpost&p=2882315"]Link[/url]

I would like to ask that this attack is wiped due to god modding in these sentences:

[quote]
"All of the planes were stealth so they wouldn't be detected by radar. They were also flying at their highest altitudes possible so they wouldn't be seen by anyone on the ground, although they could probably fly lower then a civilian jet-liner and not be noticed."

"Three B-2s and their escorts would go to Albuquerque, the New Mexico capital, without dropping any bombs along the way. Because they were stealth, they wouldn't be detected on top of the fact they were at such high altitudes."

"Operation “Clear The Way” was perfect because all of the bombs would be dropped at once across New Mexico without any warning, on a moonless night, in the dead of night, with stealth technology, and black, unmarked air craft."

They would be flying very low to the ground as well, but with the other fortifications taken out earlier, they wouldn't have any problems. But since they were flying extremely low, radar would not be able to detect them and they could easily shoot anything on the ground before it even saw them."
[/quote]

Edited December 20, 2011 by Curristan

[Centurius]

While we are known to give a lot of leeway and actually use it ourselves this post is well beyond the line within which we allow suggesting casualties, this is just outright posting casualties and rp'ing Curristan's air defense. In its current state the post is wiped, however I will give PD the chance to remove all godmods from the post.

[PresidentDavid]

I would like to know what in particular is so bad about it? I posted everything that I had on my side for this "Blackopps" attack. I am aware that no stealth is perfect, however I attacked under the best conditions I could.
[b]
"All of the planes were stealth so they wouldn't be detected by radar. They were also flying at their highest altitudes possible so they wouldn't be seen by anyone on the ground, although they could probably fly lower then a civilian jet-liner and not be noticed."[/b]

If he has radar that can detect stealth technology, or if he can make a report of his men seeing it without it being metagamming, then I have no problem with him noticing them. I was just stating how impractical it would be for them to be noticed.

[b]"Three B-2s and their escorts would go to Albuquerque, the New Mexico capital, without dropping any bombs along the way. Because they were stealth, they wouldn't be detected on top of the fact they were at such high altitudes."[/b]

Again, I am posting that they will likely not be seen. I didn't mean for it to seem like I was saying they were totally invincible. I thought you posted every advantage and what not you had, then the enemy finds a way to tell you that you are wrong ICly and posts a way (in this example) to see your air craft. If he can kind a way, then by all means I don't have anything wrong with it.

[b]"Operation “Clear The Way” was perfect because all of the bombs would be dropped at once across New Mexico without any warning, on a moonless night, in the dead of night, with stealth technology, and black, unmarked air craft."[/b]

There I am, once again, posting my advantages. All of the B-2s are dropping at once so that the GF air force won't be alerted earlier for others then they are for some. If there is a problem with "moonless" then that is understandable, let the moon be out... And I would agree that it was out of warning - by the look of Curristan's post, he seems pretty angry and surprised that I just attacked him.

[b]"They would be flying very low to the ground as well, but with the other fortifications taken out earlier, they wouldn't have any problems. But since they were flying extremely low, radar would not be able to detect them and they could easily shoot anything on the ground before it even saw them."[/b]

Again, this is assuming that my B-2s succeed. If they somewhat didn't then I thought it would be just as easy to post that, "Because the B-2 mission wasn't a success, the Fairchilds would encounter resistance." Also, they are flying low just like Maras... So if flying low is a monstrosity then by all means report her too.

Conclusion:

I did a black opps mission at a time and place and with air craft that would do the job the best. Obviously I wouldn't send in F-16s to do a bombing run.

I said what my advantages were. Which were:

*It was the dead of night
*The air craft had stealth technology
*The air craft were flying at a very high altitude
*The air craft were black
*The air craft went radio silent
*They would all drop there bombs in one run, not circle, and do so all at the same time so it would cause havoc in New Mexico all at once
*They had stealth escorts
*They had some pretty awesome bombs

I have never posted a war post before and I honestly took about two hours getting that post ready - so if y'all would like to help me understand what I exactly did wrong, then I will be happy to change it. Granted wording seems [i]extremely[/i] important, however I am a human being doing this for the first time.

I have told y'all that I haven't made it to where they are invincible, I have just given the scenario which is why I think they will not fail. If Curristan can post a flaw in my plan and a reason why it will fail, then he can use that hole to bring down my plan. I thought that is how war worked, but I surely can be wrong because I have no experience in this field.

I hope y'all can help us out, and help me out as to why my intentions were so illegal.

Thanks.

[TheShammySocialist]

Language is everything when it comes to a war post, in my honest opinion, to avoid being accused of god modding, you can't use stuff like "would not be detected", because it implies that they are immune to detection. You did not clarify that until now. You need to use statements like "difficult to detect" or "would be hard to detect without proper equipment". Generalizing like that allows for there to be the intent that you know your attack might not get through.

Its not your "intentions" on trial here, as I see it, its your use of language when describing what you call advantages, when roleplaying in war, you have to allow your opponent to have an adequate space in which to respond. That's basically it.

You can assume they won't fail, yes, but depending on the way Curristan roleplays it out, he can negate some of the aspects of their advantages, and properly roleplay an interception before they get to their targets. You can't assume (not sure if you are doing so or not, but I'm just saying) that because its "Black Operations" mission, its automatically going to be able to fly through, bomb, and get out unscathed. Depending on Curristan's response, you may not even reach your targets, which would negate your second operation that is flown later on, and any advantages it has. People do run simultaneous strikes like that in war posts, but it has the potential for getting OOCly shot down as a way of roleplaying out someone elses' casualties, in my experience, I don't run simultaneous strikes, because it lessens the chance I'm going to get called on a god mod.

Edit: And by second operation, I mean the Fairchilds you sent in after the B-2 strikes were done.

Hope these suggestions help.

Edited December 20, 2011 by TheShammySocialist

[Triyun]

The B-2 and F-117 (ESPECIALLY the F-117) aren't as stealth in this instance as you think they are. Further stealth doesn't mean invulnerable to radar, it means reduced range of detection. The serbs found an F-117 with technology considerably less advanced than Curri and their are reasons why doing it to B-2s would be harder for reasons I'd be happy to go into if you like. But the point is they found it. The F-117 is also more vulnerably to VHF radar than the B-2. As radar technology advances, the F-117 would continue to grow less and less stealthy, the B-2 is also somewhat though much less so compromised (again I can go a bit into the technical details of that). To claim a mission success with either of this scale seems a bit much. These aircraft unlike the F-22 Raptor don't have multi-aspect surviveability (i.e. integrated passive sensors, supercruise, extreme manuverability, and electronic attack). Afterall they were designed in the 60s and 70s.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Triyun

[Centurius]

There is a very fine line between suggesting casualties and an outright godmod, while it probably is you being relatively new to war rp in this case it's the latter. The main issue here is that you did not just assume success but actually wrote the attack as a success. For the post to fall in the former category you need to change the post as Shammy suggested,

[Kankou]

Just a question: Are we allowed to RP things and people in "free land" without having to deal with all the regular problems of protectorates?

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1324533202' post='2883873']
Just a question: Are we allowed to RP things and people in "free land" without having to deal with all the regular problems of protectorates?
[/quote]

You're allowed to make a nation there, if that is what you are asking.

[Kankou]

I just figured that with all the war that happened on the Asian continent, I might just RP some people from the free lands of Asia might come over to Southeast Asia and eventually Grand Papua. I need some South Asians for diversity.

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1324535427' post='2883911']
I just figured that with all the war that happened on the Asian continent, I might just RP some people from the free lands of Asia might come over to Southeast Asia and eventually Grand Papua. I need some South Asians for diversity.
[/quote]
There's no free land on the subcontinent, it's a UFE protectorate.