The Treaty of Zurich II

[Kaiser Martens]

"Both things had failed. Torun received at least one negative vote, Austria did not agree to remove UK due to instead being able to get rid of the Clause after all. We should strive to be a bit more orderly from now on, and, for one, only discuss one issue at a time just to prevent further confusion."

"We'd prefer for Torun to be in Zürich, but as a new nation I understand that some may be skeptical about them, it has yet to prove itself."

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1302486409' post='2688208']
Thankyou for clearing that up. If Harland wins he will go to war with Austria?

I would push to say the Commonwealth aswell, however Maine remains an independent nation and is not a European colony.
[/quote]

"It is my opinion that if Harland wins he will push for the removal of European and all other non-American nations from North America. Most likely he will use diplomacy to do this and not elect a military option that would further strain his nation. In regards to my Eastern counterparts, I echo them and say that we have two remaining issues to vote on.

The United Kingdom of the Celts, Franks and Rus votes "Nay" on Torun's membership and "Nay" to the expulsion of the United Kingdom of the Celts, Franks and Rus. "

[Justinian the Mighty]

"Then both motions fail, I move to recess until tomorrow."

ooc: I just wanted to say something.

[Kaiser Martens]

"Well, at the end of the day, the one who has the support of the People will win, and that will one way or the other be for the best."

[Kaiser Martens]

"It has come to our attention that if Harland were to win the civil war, then UK would be in fact allied to a nation which would soon come to attack at least England and China, them being our allies. This has created many harsh feelings among our population, combined with the fact that your Colonial Military Bases are thought to be contradictory with the fact that the land had criticized colonialism."

"Therefore I would like to request that the UK agrees that they will cancel their treaty with the Americans if Harland were to win, in order for our nations not to potentially end up in opposite sides of the fences. That is the [i]chance[/i] in order to initiate a continuity of better understanding."

"If UK would want to continue their pact with Pravus Ingruo, we would find this quite suitable if you would agree to, in fact, get rid of Harland through a multinational effort of arms. Then you get to restore order and indeed keep your ally in the long term - all of them."

[Justinian the Mighty]

"In all honesty from Premier Medvedev’s point of view neither regime is acceptable. Russians have never been opposed to imperialism--except for the Soviets, but even that is eh… However on the other hand the current PI regime is authorizing it’s armed forces to attack with reckless disregard for civilian life. I believe we should take a third route and find a third faction that we might be able to support."

[Kaiser Martens]

"That would too be an acceptable, desireable alternative."

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Kaiser Martens' timestamp='1303184845' post='2693140']
"It has come to our attention that if Harland were to win the civil war, then UK would be in fact allied to a nation which would soon come to attack at least England and China, them being our allies. This has created many harsh feelings among our population, combined with the fact that your Colonial Military Bases are thought to be contradictory with the fact that the land had criticized colonialism."

"Therefore I would like to request that the UK agrees that they will cancel their treaty with the Americans if Harland were to win, in order for our nations not to potentially end up in opposite sides of the fences. That is the [i]chance[/i] in order to initiate a continuity of better understanding."

"If UK would want to continue their pact with Pravus Ingruo, we would find this quite suitable if you would agree to, in fact, get rid of Harland through a multinational effort of arms. Then you get to restore order and indeed keep your ally in the long term - all of them."
[/quote]

"The Western Region of the United Kingdom will not agree to do anything until the facts are in and the dust has settled. Considering the range of foreign intervention in the North American Civil War, any kind of promise or agreement for either faction is premature, at best. We will say, at this point in time, that we will begin a routine investigation into the current UK-EoPI treaty, that is the best we can do until the Civil War comes to an end. This pact first and foremost is for European peace, so what we should be speaking about is the English's militarization of the UK's border, their closing of all territorial waters and airways - even to Zurich as allies, etc... The English have not contacted the U.K. either in private or public channels to speak with us about their dramatic military increase along our borders - this would be acceptable if we were only NAP holders, but we are now allied through Zurich and the English are getting dangerously close to violating the following article.

[quote]
Article I: Non Aggression
The undersigned hereby agree to establish a policy of non-aggression. No signatory will launch military, political, or covert operations against the other.[/quote]

Their flights into international waters, getting close to the UK's EEZ are now a daily occurrence. This, in addition to their other practices, in my opinion, showcases a clear policy of aggression against the United Kingdom's Western and Northern territories. We call upon the Zurich pact to assist the United Kingdom in preventing further English militarization and aggression against us."

[Zoot Zoot]

The English delegate turned to the Irish.

"Thats !@#$%^&* and you know it. Our airborne patrols are in international and English territorial waters aswell as over sovreign English soil. We are militarising our own border, inside our own Nation agaisnt the possibility of UK aggression againt us through your still, unexplained relationships between the present Emperor of the EoPI and their former Emperor, Mr Harland. Whom Might I add was the only leader to support you when we were at war, though I dont think I need to remind you. You also hold a base in Florida, SAS controlled territory and you have not yet begun removing your troops, or removing SAS forces to aid the legitiate Imperial Government. Why?

It is these actions of your own that is making England nervous and we will NOT be caught out by surprise against a UK surprise attack along with an American attack. We do not need to contact the nation we are taking the liberty of preparing ourselves for an attack against Sir, that would be an obvious national security flaw, but as it concerns you so much, there you have it. We are ensuring English independance against the possibility of UK aggression against us, regardless of how you may be allied to us. It is our sovereign right to close our airspace and territorial seas and has been a long standing policiy of England when we are threatened with war.

There has been no agressive action taken against the UK, we have breached none of your territory and we have launched no political, military or covert attacks against you. Our actions have taken place inside our own borders and are therefore legal and your attempt to gather European support in launching a war against us because we have closed down England's borders and placed more units on the borders than usual, is laughable and pathetic."

[Yawoo]

OOC: Just so you are aware, Zoot. My representative to this treaty bloc is not Irish, but French.

IC:

"My dear English representative, there is no need to use foul language. We are all adults here, with many of us holding upper degrees, I'm sure you can convey your feelings without needing to resort to foul, unsophisticated, language. Please, allow me to respond, in regards to your statement of:

[quote]Thats !@#$%^&* and you know it. Our airborne patrols are in international and English territorial waters aswell as over sovreign English soil. We are militarising our own border, inside our own Nation agaisnt the possibility of UK aggression againt us through your still, unexplained relationships between the present Emperor of the EoPI and their former Emperor, Mr Harland. Whom Might I add was the only leader to support you when we were at war, though I dont think I need to remind you. You also hold a base in Florida, SAS controlled territory and you have not yet begun removing your troops, or removing SAS forces to aid the legitiate Imperial Government. Why?
[/quote]

As you have no doubt noticed, the S.A.S. has taken over MediaCorps ability to broadcast information throughout the country. If you'll review your history, you'll find MediaCorp has a, some say monopoly I say stranglehold, over the nation's media making any sort of communication with the current leadership of the Empire spotty, at best. Knowing this, my region decided to reinforce our sovereign military base amongst the statements of S.A.S. personnel advocating for the removal of all non-American forces from North America. You are correct in stating that former Emperor Harland was the only nation leader to support the Kingdom of Ireland in their fight against European forces. I fail to see how that is relevant, however, considering the U.K.'s Western Region has a treaty not with former Emperor Harland, but the nation of the Empire of Pravus Ingruo. In regards to your questioning of the United Kingdom over the EoPI, I read a statement before this illustrious treaty bloc, I will now re-read that statement:

[quote]
"It is my opinion that if Harland wins he will push for the removal of European and all other non-American nations from North America. Most likely he will use diplomacy to do this and not elect a military option that would further strain his nation. In regards to my Eastern counterparts, I echo them and say that we have two remaining issues to vote on." [/quote]

Therefore it is and was my opinion that Emperor Harland will not go to war immediately if he wins this civil war. I will not waste blood on removing a S.A.S. base in Scotland when my associate in the Northern Region has yet to inform me of any sort of activity of theirs that indicates, that the small population of that base, is preparing for a conflict with the United Kingdom or her neighbors. It is and was my opinion, that should Emperor Harland come out victorious in this civil war that he will use diplomacy first and foremost to remove the elements he finds distasteful in North America. Naturally, my King has reinforced our base in Miami as the region is currently in turmoil and it is only prudent that extra security be added to an unstable region where my nation holds it's only overseas military base. Beyond that fact, of which you have yet to ask, the current division occupying that base was scheduled to return home and was being relieved, but due to the situation in North America, they have had to be kept on furthering their overseas stay. Had the English or Zurich as a whole, posed these questions to me, I could have answered them instead of having to view English planes patrolling outside my nation's borders.

[quote]
It is these actions of your own that is making England nervous and we will NOT be caught out by surprise against a UK surprise attack along with an American attack. We do not need to contact the nation we are taking the liberty of preparing ourselves for an attack against Sir, that would be an obvious national security flaw, but as it concerns you so much, there you have it. We are ensuring English independance against the possibility of UK aggression against us, regardless of how you may be allied to us. It is our sovereign right to close our airspace and territorial seas and has been a long standing policiy of England when we are threatened with war. [/quote]

In regards to this statement, I believe you will have found an sufficient answer to your previous question, so I must pose a question to you - what actions have the United Kingdom, specifically the Western and Northern regions committed that you fear any sort of U.K. aggression. Need I remind the English representative, that the United Kingdom currently holds two NAPs and a MDoAP with your nation? There has never been a time, in the history of the United Kingdom nor her previous incarnations where we have violated a treaty with the English. Beyond that fact, there is absolutely zero militarization at or near the English borders in the Western and Northern regions. You will forgive me, I'm sure, that when faced with the English's increasing of forces, their daily flights in international waters, so near the EEZs of the United Kingdom, and their odd foreign affairs actions of the past that the United Kingdom wishes for European support to stabilize the current situation.

Further, in regards to the following:

[quote]
There has been no agressive action taken against the UK, we have breached none of your territory and we have launched no political, military or covert attacks against you. Our actions have taken place inside our own borders and are therefore legal and your attempt to gather European support in launching a war against us because we have closed down England's borders and placed more units on the borders than usual, is laughable and pathetic."[/quote]

I would like to remind the English representative that the United Kingdom's representatives did not claim that the English were taking agressive actions actions the U.K. If you, please listen, once more, to the statement I made, perhaps that will clear up this miscommunication,

[quote]English are getting dangerously close to violating the following article [Article: 1].[/quote]

I was merely expressing my concern for the actions of your nation and feel, as I did then, that they are an unwarranted move against a nation that has done nothing to deserve it. Your actions, you are unfortunately incorrect in stating that they're inside your own borders, I have, here with me, radar and satellite imaging that very clearly shows English war planes in international airspace, extremely close to the United Kingdom's airspace. While you are correct in stating your actions are legal, I have never denied that fact. My point, as illustrated in my previous speech, is that the English are unnecessarily increasing tensions with their Zurich ally for no reason and it has gone to a point where my nation feels the need to request Zurich interdiction to resolve this situation as the English have chosen to cease communicating with the United Kingdom and have forged ahead with a military option. I would further, suggest that the English representative, cease using language such as "laughable and pathetic" to refer to your ally's actions. Please, sir, do have some respect when communicating with your peers at this assembly of nations.

Edit:

An aide to the UK's Western Region's ambassador presented him with a piece of paper as he was wrapping up his speech. Quickly reading through it, he decided to present it to the delegates.

"My friends, I have just been handed a copy of a speech the English's King has just spoke about on public radio. Here is a transcript of that speech.

[quote]
We now broadcast a message straight from Windsor Castle from the King.

"Let me make this clear. The Commonwealth will remain Independant and we will not be bullied by anybody into removing our military forces from a high state of alert. War has been threatened against the Commonwealth and we will face this threat and respond accordingly to any and all acts of aggression taken against England or Maine.

The British Army is as I speak, fortifying the borders between England and the UK and there is a significant military presence on the borders in the form of British Army formations and the airforce.

We will protect ourselves from UK and American aggression. The most recent of the UK's announcements were, in short, a call to Europe to turn on England and force us to remove our military from the borders, to force us, stop protecting ourselves from the threat of aggression from the Nation who used four nuclear weapons of a strategic scale against British cities and towns.

I will say it once more.

The Commonwealth will not be bullied into submission, into bending to anothers will and we will respond with the full force of the Commonwealth military to aggression taken against the Commonwealth or its allies." [/quote]


My dear associates, perhaps now you can see what my nation is dealing with? Nowhere, not once, have I advocated for any sort of force to remove the English's forces from the border with my nation. Their representative, has taken private communication between our persons in Zurich and allowed it to be broadcasted to the world. This is not the way to support European cooperation, nor unity. Quite frankly, delegates, this is insanity on the part of the English government. I once again reiterate my call for Zurich help in calming the English situation. Obviously, the United Kingdom can not do it ourselves, and we need cooperation from our allies."

Edited April 19, 2011 by Yawoo

[Zoot Zoot]

"What is deemed unnecessary to you, is viewed as highly important to our security as a Nation. We have not decided to ignore communication with the UK at all, and we have not chosen a military option. We have prepared for a possible act of aggression against England, and we are talking to you now.

Simply because your military isnt on the borders does not mean you dont pose a significant threat, regardless of what you say in this council. Your King has no qualms in dropping nuclear weapons on cities. An act I believe when last commited killed over 8 million people and perhaps another 4 million more through radiation sickness and cancers.

You dont need your military to defend yourself or pose a threat to England, you have your missiles." he said taking a quick sip of water before carrying on.

[quote]"Their flights into international waters, getting close to the UK's EEZ are now a daily occurrence. This, in addition to their other practices, in my opinion, showcases a clear policy of aggression against the United Kingdom's Western and Northern territories. We call upon the Zurich pact to assist the United Kingdom in preventing further English militarization and aggression against us."
[/quote]

"This is a clear calling to Zurich to support you in an effort to force a demilitarisation of the English borders, something that we are obliged to defend in the face of any threat."

[Justinian the Mighty]

"This is ridiculous. I've just spoken to the Prime Minister, if we can't settle this right here and now like [i]ADULTS[/i] then Slavorussia will be leaving both the UK and the Zurich Pact. Both organizations have been nothing but trouble for us and quite frankly as time goes by we're less and less convinced that any of you would help us out of a tough spot."

"You should all be ashamed of yourselves. I know children that are more well behaved. The western UK has a valid grievance, but the Commonwealth is doing everything in its power to twist the situation. This is not the behavior of allies nor civilized people."

[Zoot Zoot]

The UK's grievance is that they are worried about the further militarisation of England against a state which has in the past, used strategic nuclear weapons on civilian targets.

England has been threatened with war by a foreign power and we are preparing for an imminent attack. Especially as the power in question has a sizable base in Scotland and has the capability to hit English targets.

Regardless to how said hostiles have responded with the UK is questionable at best, but the fact remains that the UK has done nothing remove the threat from their allys vicinity. Until the UK either detain or send the SAS rebels in Scotland home the English fortification of the border will continue and we will further make all efforts to defend England and it's territory from attack from all enemies.

[Sargun II]

"Those troops are guarded well by Scottish troops and will not be detained, for they have not committed a crime, nor will they be sent home as their home is in a period of crisis. To do so would be immoral."

[Zoot Zoot]

Letting soldiers of an organisation that has publicly threatened war against your ally remain in striking distance is also immoral.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1303258206' post='2694038']
Letting soldiers of an organisation that has publicly threatened war against your ally remain in striking distance is also immoral.
[/quote]

"Given that they are not permitted to step foot outside of the walls of their compound and that any use of military equipment such as missiles will be met by our own defence systems and an accompanying strike back, we find no fault in keeping them there until the situation at home settles down."

[Zoot Zoot]

We see It differently.

It takes one warhead to evade both yours and our missile defence systems to cause a massacre.

By keeping them in British soil, they remain a threat to England.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Zoot Zoot

[Ezequiel]

"The Grand Duchy of Livonia would like to apply to the Zurich Treaty. We are a protectorate of Germany and feel we may be a benefit this treaty."

Was the statement made to the Zurich partners by the Livlander Elected President, Juris Kristaps.

[Zoot Zoot]

The Commonwealth votes yes to the application of Livonia.

[Yawoo]

We have a more pressing crisis than voting on membership.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1303258778' post='2694060']
We see It differently.

It takes one warhead to evade both yours and our missile defence systems to cause a massacre.

By keeping them in British soil, they remain a threat to England.
[/quote]

"Given that there are no weapons of mass destruction of any kind in the Scottish base - in fact there are no missiles at all - your fears are paranoia."

[Zoot Zoot]

Our statement stands. Until the base is dismantled and it's garrison detained in a secure Scottish facility or sent home to be held under Imperial jurisdiction, we will continue to protect our Borders.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1303259598' post='2694084']
Our statement stands. Until the base is dismantled and it's garrison detained in a secure Scottish facility or sent home to be held under Imperial jurisdiction, we will continue to protect our Borders.
[/quote]
"Your statement does not stand. There is [b]no possible way[/b] for this base to be used as a weapon against the Commonwealth. [b]Period.[/b]"

[Kaiser Martens]

"I agree on Livonia's entry." - Says a new Germanic Delegation that arrives to the room, the old one being escorted out by Einherjar...

The new faces sit down and lean back.

"But onto more important matters,

I do believe that for a long time this whole thing has been handled in a rather childish manner, the worst manner possible. So let us try to keep a cool mind else we may wish to continue to disgrace our own countries with such behaviour.

Now,

On the one hand UK's concern about the English militarizing the border is not in my opinion really valid because if England did in fact attack the UK in such a way to breach the Zürich pact, then England would, of course, find itself helpless and alone to fight the UK. At the same time, the English King might have benefitted from moderating his speech, then again, that can be said for all of us as is. England's concern is legitimate, if UK does not agree to give us a warranty at least in the form of their word that they will not potentially end up supporting Harland and his Anti-European agenda - that is, anti-English Agenda in spite of having been asked to do so, then England is in their right to be "paranoid" about the ongoing situation.

What I would suggest is that the English border returns to normal if the UK can agree not to support eventual Anti-European Pravus Ingruoan Efforts. All nations have badly overreacted, however, the prefix Over does imply that a reaction of some kind was justified.

And that all of our governments get new Delegates and Foreign Affair Ministries - Just as we have done ourselves. The Althing has appointed me the new head of FA, the name is Otto Bakker and it is a honor to meet you all."

He takes out a cigarette and lights it, starting to smoke as he narrows his eyes and crosses one leg over the other in a quite informal manner in spite of his most calm, collected and polite speech worthy of a national leader altogether.

"If there are any other ideas, I shall hear them, but there will be no compromise on one point: That we must, indeed, stop mouthing like our Barbarian ancestors."

[Zoot Zoot]

We cannot lower our stance in the matter Mr Bakker until the separatist threat is removed from England. Be that either by Harland being killed/detained or the entire SAS movement collapsing.

Until the threat has passed we cannot and will stand stand down our military.