Rayvon

Congrats to the Kingdom I've had the pleasure of meeting your diplomats, and fighting alongside one of your warriors against a rogue. May your future be as bright as your past o/

[IMG]http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq31/cduggan81d/rndmshiz/SoTW15Red.png[/IMG] [code]Rayvon - [IMG]http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq31/cduggan81d/rndmshiz/SoTW15Red.png[/IMG][/code] Clearly, primary colour is red. Stock photo is my own. Quote is by Octavio Paz, a Mexican writer and poet. --------- For the possible naysayers on ownership, [code]http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq31/cduggan81d/rndmshiz/ScreenShotofAlbumsFolder.png[/code] Screenshot of my albums folder. Highlighted image is stock photo used.

[quote name='the masheen' timestamp='1283222681' post='2436496'] Now you're just being absurd... [/quote] And the rest of this entire situation hasn't been?

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' timestamp='1283221191' post='2436468'] Fixed. You signed a legal document of your "surrender" which means you more or less lost. Whether you did more damage/less damage you still legally lost. Cannot argue that at all. [/quote] Except you missed the memo where Hoo's word was law. Hoo said such a document of terms would not exist, therefore it is not a legal document.

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1283220088' post='2436451'] How did we lose? Cuz we put words up that said we did? [/quote] Yes - cause our words mean something while others don't .... Conveniently

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1283178130' post='2435771']The mercy shown to the vanquished in only giving two weeks of war, a beer review, and admission of fault and defeat is proof the post-Karma world is indeed a better place for all of us.[/quote] It's also proof that the post-Karma era doesn't give two !@#$% about their allies word either and will even so much as entirely dismiss it for their own amusement. That is a much better place. While I was always heavy against the 'harsh and heavy' terms of the whole Hegemony era, atleast they were honest in their fronts.

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1283169651' post='2435692'] Or they achieved their objectives and still lost the war. Sounds about right to me. [/quote] All heil ze Almighty Flinders o/ Keeper of all that righteous, Knower of all that is known, Master of all that is Right. I'm very sorry our views are different. You might enjoy things more from a more "outside view" if you catch my drift. [quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1283171202' post='2435703'] I fought, and I'm not annoyed at all. If NSO want to puff up their chests and act like they won, fine. Personally, I don't see why I should get my undies in a bunch over it. EDIT: If anything NSO is probably considering Rok and Co getting so flustered a victory. [/quote] If more people were like you, this thread really wouldn't be still going. Personally, we find it quite amusing how easy it is to get the others riled. All their claims of 'we're not bawwin' .. haha .. There's more posts in the last few pages of everyone else with their serious 'YOU LOST WAHHH ACCEPT IT' crap than there is of us poking fun at them. [quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1283175229' post='2435739'] Corinan as Mr. Rogers? I think I may have to laugh myself to death... in a good way, [/quote] I had a hard time keeping a straight face making that for him

My points weren't intended to either support nor slander the discussion over Chey's piece. They were directed towards the comment(s) that seemed to elude a piece of art is any more or less a piece of art based on effort/work.

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1283109423' post='2434820'] He isn't writing from his own perspective, what he is doing is creating a story he doesn't actually believe in but desperately wishes were true. I would imagine the reasonable NSO member would write something along the lines of "we lost but didn't like the CB etc. etc." [/quote] And you're an authority on the thoughts in his mind and what he does and doesn't believe?

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1283108416' post='2434810'] I'd really just let him wallow in his own self delusion. Really, he's just trying to put on his brave face because he is a joke and that's the only way he can cope.. Even someone of that caliber doesn't actually think they've won and are only putting on the facade as to save face. Well, of course if he did, admin help NSO, because we all know their allies won't. [/quote] Haven't already heard all those same words from a dozen other people already. lol The victor may write the history books, but both parties still write from their own perspective.

[quote name='okandjo' timestamp='1283094524' post='2434697'] Transparency is key and Sal is correct in believing we should see the amount of work in each sig. [/quote] I've been doing graphic design in one capacity or another for up and around 15 years ... The "amount of work" doesn't add up to anything. I've done some of the most elaborate stuff in less than 5 minutes while more basic stuff I pecked away at for hours and hours. Is it eye-catching? Does it make you want to look at it again? Does it say something to you? Move you? Turn your stomach? These are questions that are more important than 'How much effort was put into it?'.

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1283036326' post='2434266'] Thanks for NSO comments. You proved to be better sports than I tought. best wishes. [/quote] It's all in fun, we enjoy ours to a different flavour. Cheers

Damn them and their quiet corner they're still sitting in *shakes fist*

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1282934796' post='2432979'] If I recall correctly, most ask for a PM. That's something. Regardless, this appeal to popularity is a distraction from the argument. The vast majority of alliances require applicants to peace out existing wars before allowing them to join. Does that make you want NSO to operate that way? [/quote] The discussion has been about how peace is obtained (read: forced upon those who don't desire to play the game from our realm), not about whether or not it's required to be at peace when joining an alliance. [quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1282934803' post='2432980'] Who cares? They have to make an MS Paint comic or write a short story. [i]The horror.[/i] Seriously it's something that takes at most ten minutes to do. If they're not willing to do it to save their nation then they don't have a place here. The world is rough, get used to it. edit: spelling [/quote] Glad to know the Viridian Entente is now the authority on who is capable or deserves to play this game. [OOC: it's been fun. Conference call is done, I have a meeting with the boss to go to. Working from home sucks ass sometimes, but convenient in others]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282933400' post='2432958'] Okay, name some. [/quote] The above named raiding alliances to start .. I'm multi-tasking far too much at the moment [OOC: RL work mixed with some ingame distractions] to go digging through charters to give you clear examples. I challenge you to show me even ONE single alliance other than GOONS that requires a nation to actually do anything to get peace.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282932787' post='2432948'] And then what? They could easily just get raided again by somebody else in the alliance or another. Completing a challenge on the mercy board gets you permanent immunity from our raiding anyway. Better still would be to join an alliance or get a protectorate. Permanent solutions are better. [/quote] So you're saying it's your place to determine/force/coerce whether someone joins an alliance or quits the game. Plenty of alliances add people to a 'Do Not Raid' list after they've been hit once. And not a single one of them requires the nation to do anything to get on that list.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282932054' post='2432937'] Methods of achieving peace which are the same as any other tech raiding alliances'. Our special system is in addition to the traditional methods. You have continually ignored the facts at every turn, I can only assume that you are here to slander us. If this is the case, I must ask you to leave. [/quote] If you must ask, then ask. Slander is the way of your new friends. Is it not acceptable when the tables are turned? Is your skin not thick enough to handle it? Personally, I'd find it extremely slanderous to tell me (again, from the p.o.v. of the raidee, not saying I've been raided by a GOON at any point) I don't care enough about my nation that I must follow your rules to achieve peace. "Traditional methods" are 'PM for peace' .. Direct between Raider and Raidee. No public spectacle. No humiliation. No problems.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1282931400' post='2432925'] A concerted effort could have easily changed the policy. That changing the tech-raiding policy was performed quickly after Corn took over, when his command and influence was at its weakest, shows how simple it could be. My statement did not put the burden solely on you but only noted that the burden was indeed on you. To take offense at the practice (and in particular GOONS' regulations with regard to it) reeks of hypocrisy given that you made little effort to change it in VE despite ample opportunity. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll let you and Sardonic get back at it. Just wanted to stop in and give that little alley-oop. [/quote] There's no hypocrisy here. Yet again - I am NOT saying anything about the act of tech raiding, as much as I personally don't like it ... What I AM talking about, and what I HAVE been talking about - is the methods of achieving peace afterwards.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1282930187' post='2432915'] Not by a long shot. I was the one who made it possible, having re-written the charter and all. Tech-raiding didn't get restricted again until I put Corn in power. I think all us alliance-folk have a burden to carry the torch of civilization to the unwashed masses of None. [/quote] Of course. I'm well aware. But you're previous statement put the burden solely on me. I didn't have the sole power to change the Charter. That had to go through the Parliament. Viridia has always been split on raiding. But again - raiding itself isn't the issue. I've always said, even when being blackmailed by certain 'high profile' members, that it's an individual's right. I would never have condoned such ways of obtaining peace like forcing them to join an alliance (or otherwise quit the game since that's the only other option) or to have to humiliate themselves for my entertainment so they could achieve peace.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282929492' post='2432904'] By that logic all alliances that tech raid are the same as the old GOONS. [/quote] No. The discussion all along hasn't even been on the act of tech raiding itself. It's been about the methodology behind it. You're 'requirements' to gain peace and whatnot. Not comparable in any way to other raiding alliances. GOD doesn't require such. NSO doesn't. VE didn't when they allowed raiding. ... Go down the list, find even one alliance that is comparable to GOONS. And yes Ardus - I was the only Lord that allowed it wasn't I?. Really.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282928837' post='2432894'] GOONS does not recognize the sovereignty of individual nations, that's the legal justification for why our members are able to tech raid. Our moral calculus is based on alliances, not nations. [/quote] Well that's already quite clear. So then we can stop the circular argument that you are different from the GOONS of old, and that you actually are just like them.

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1282927309' post='2432867'] We all have misperceptions on some issues, and more important than our current levels of knowledge, is our ability to incorporate more data into our way of perceiving the world, the reality. I wouldn't regard your views to be consistently delusional, or that your way of processing information is delusional by design, eventhough we don't see every subject eye to eye. After all, we are all limited by the physical realities the universe is imposing on our brains, and as such, we remain imperfect beings, always with a potential to further develop, our abilities to seek truth from facts.[/quote] [i]You're entire gov - including yourself personally - have been quite quick to jump at that since December when I left - like YOUR (you personally) announcement thread to the membership after my departure. You can dress it up pretty now all you want, try and dance around the words to still say it while hiding it. That's really a separate subject tho.[/i] MY implication that they have to walk that path? That's not my implication. That's GOONS, and apparently others within Viridia - looking at the words of Berger ... My nation is my nation (using 'I' for sake of clarity, tho it applies to any nation deemed 'raidable' by GOONS standards). Regardless of how you perceive my way of running it or how often I spend with it. For you to decide I'm not using my resources well enough and 'take them' - is an even bigger infringement on sovereignty than the reasons for the last war against us.

[quote name='Bergerland' timestamp='1282925014' post='2432840'] The point is, if you can't take the 5-10 minutes to write something/draw something or join an alliance you can't care about your nation all that much. Therefore, if you don't care about your nation the people who do care about theirs have every right to take the resources you're not using and put them to better use. [/quote] And this here, is EXACTLY the mentality starting to spread through Viridia that drove me away. Congrats Impero. You've done what you always sought out to do. Like every discussion/disagreement we ever had over VE's future from our seats in Ordo ... o/ This treaty truly is deserved. Best of luck to both of you. You're made for each other.

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1282908318' post='2432692'] Are you trying to say, that Sith considers harmless mental exercise, this exercise of creative behaviour, to be the very definition of evil? [/quote] No one brought up 'evil' till Biazt. We don't believe in humiliating our 'prey' (since that's all they've turned their raidees into with their methods) in order for them to get peace. And that !@#$%^&* line up there somewhere? It's THEIR fault for not being in an alliance? Perhaps they don't have an interest or knowledge in this aspect of the game? That's not their fault. They have to PROVE they care about their nation in order to gain peace from GOONS? WTF. Who the hell gave them the power to decide whether or not someone cares about their nation? I don't give two rats ass about my nation. It's a forced requirement to play the game and gain access to the aspects I DO enjoy. So because I don't care, if I should end up unaligned and caught by them, then I don't deserve peace even tho I was raided for minding my own business? I think not. Don't worry Solaris - afterall, I am delusional, aren't I? I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm probably making half of that up. Right?

[quote name='Biazt' timestamp='1282877265' post='2432349'] BlkAK47_002, you obviously didn't grasp what I wrote so I'll ask you to read it again since you missed the point entirely. RV, I'm not comparing the raiding policies of the two per se, just that the entire concept of NSO being an evil alliance hilariously falls apart when you object to simple tech raiding. Peace is a lie etc. [/quote] You obviously didn't grasp what RV wrote so I'll ask you to read it again since you missed the point entirely. The discussion is about the mannerism in which GOONS carries out the act. Not the act itself.