Guido

Don't worry, we will start oppressing you soon enough once again...

It may be because these cries for attention seem to be 9/10 of every thread nowadays. Although I won't speak for him.

Normally if one member of an alliance attacks another member of another alliance and the first man's alliance accepts/supports it...then yes, that is an alliance war, or atleast turns into one very quickly. Not very good foreign policy if you ask me.

So can I get an official number when you would consider it an alliance? I'm sure enough people will join so that you have to honor your word to not "tech raid" alliances.

Such hypocrisy. Where were you with this opinion when the Hegemony did this that were against the "commonly accepted norms"? Oh wait, that only applies to you and your cronies. Clever...

So let me get this straight. You are admitting that you don't actually need a CB to go to war with another alliance? Because if they don't have MDP's it is bound to happen. Awesome, I will remember that in the future. Also, to those of you that will try to deny that this is the case, read the 2nd post of this thread. Story closed.

I see a lot of sarcastic and asinine posts from people of "The Family". It's nice when you prove the OP right time and time again in this single thread. Also, I wasn't aware that "I don't like you" was a justifiable CB anymore now that The Great Karma is here. Aren't we still playing the "Greater than Thou" part or are we done with that?

Very cool stats, nice job!

What a pathetic attempt at a rebuttle. We knew what it meant because we are now thinking that it didn't mean what you thought it meant and what we thought it meant when we signed it. BRAVO! To me any nation, means any nation. If it was supposed to be, "Any nation within the NPO", the surely it would say that? Also, nice job Sir Paul. Always fun and entertaining as usual.

I see you still have witty and relevant posts to make. I'm not surprised at all.

And NPO did it to make sure that they were trying to achieve peace but they thought the terms were a bit unfair. They didn't want people to think that the leadership was letting the members rot in eternal war and they were trying. So both parties had valid reasons for posting. I'm not saying I disagree with this being posted, it is just as valid as NPO's terms being posted. I am simply pointing out the fact that the NPO was bashed for posting theirs, for a pretty valid reason to inform the community of what was going on, and yet Karma is not bashed for posting theirs, for informing the community of what was going on. Pretty similar circumstances, just a different side.

An MKer point out making fun and whining? How's that irony for you...

Didn't karma QQ when the NPO posted terms that would not be accepted and things were going no where as some kind of PR stunt? And now you do it? Lovely double standards I have come to expect. I'm sure I will get a million reasons why this is different.

Very impressive post. Thank you Grub.

So if FOK admits they had a change of heart, then they admit that they were wrong at one point at WERE guilty of the same thing Karma blames the NPO for. So just as Karma (and FOK) sees fit to seek reparations and revenge for past wrongs from the NPO, shouldn'tFOK be willing to pay for their wrongs as well of their own will to those that they harmed? Seems to me FOK is willing to take revenge, but not offer it for what they have done.

The harshness of comments is not made right or wrong by past comments towards those people. As I wouldn't confirm or deny that those people have made such comments as you claim, it doesn't make the way many Karma members have acted respectable or honorable at all. We are all charged with behaving the way we would like to be perceived.

That is a terrible line of argument. How many members in Karma stood by while the NPO did what you blame them for? How about the alliances that got white peace? Did they step in and stop it. Claiming they are at fault because they didn't step in against the NPO makes just about 80% (Pulled this out of thin air) of CN guilty.

I would challenge this and say that you are completely incorrect. Imposing terms will only make the NPO more at odds with Karma, hence hardening the resolve to get their own revenge more. If you don't solve the underlying issues at hand and mend relationships you be at these crossroads again sooner or later. If anything, learn from what Karma calls our mistakes.

I'd just like to thank you for answering my question. So you admit that this is about revenge and is not simply about defending your friends as Karma has claimed the entire time? As long as we are on the same page...Karma is winning the war so they can dictate the terms, but don't be surprised when you have some people angry with you longing for their own revenge. And GW1 is a terrible example as the "Winning" side did not attempt to mend relations after the war. In fact, it is the the perfect example of why what I am saying makes sense. If you don't try to mend relations (Lower reps go a long way to do this), then this problem will only arise again shortly.

I guess the thing I don't understand is why are the terms so high? I have been reading on these forums for months about how Karma simply stepped in to protect their friends and that this has nothing to do with revenge. If that is true, then why not give terms that allow the rebuilding of Karma nations that took the majority of the damage, and as punishment see that the NPO has pretty much been destroyed as far as NS goes. It is clear that the NPO will take a very long time to rebuild and it has suffered greatly for the decisions it has made...but I fail to see how this isn't about revenge. The smart thing to do, IMO obviously, is to give 1 to 2 trillion in reps plus some tech to help Karma rebuilding, then try to strengthen ties with the NPO to actually mend differences and fix the fundamental problems between the two sides. The stupid thing to do, which is what I believe is happening now, is to give the current terms as a way to not only rebuild Karma nations but also hold down the alliance for as long as possible. This simply breeds hate with NPO members and any attempt at rekindling friendship will be thwarted by this. So Karma isn't actually solving the underlying problems between the sides and while they will hold the NPO down for a while, they will eventually have to deal with the issue again once the NPO has rebuilt...whereas the alternative can avoid this.

I think it's funny that KARMA thinks it is a good idea to try to crush the NPOers as much as they can. Not only is it amazingly hypocritical (blah blah white peace, EZI is terrible, how can you be so harsh to other alliances), but it is only going to create such a level of hate for the 500+ members still hardcore in the NPO that it will certainly come back around. They can stay in peace mode for another 35 years with their war chests...so keep the offers coming I guess?

So what you are saying is that those nations that haven't been gangbanged for the last 2 weeks are stronger than the ones that have? Very interesting details here.

Yep you got us, we are both really stupid and have cared about Alliance score the entire time we have exists.

It's amazing the amount of hatred in this thread. Some of you have valid reasons as you may have been wronged by the NPO (respectable), but most have simply heard from others of things that happened...Kind of like you claim all of the NPO "robots" simply follow blindly their leadership. I can't respect blind hatred like that. There are reasons the NPO have been on top for such a large period of time, don't expect them to be gone long.

LOL what an informative, unbiased post with much supporting information... oh and also...no you