Proest

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1327816334' post='2909225'] You make it sound so nicely planned, form bloc, roll SF, disband bloc.. But if this was the plan.. why push for an SF-MJ bloc to bloc NAP if you planned to disband the bloc? Don't get me wrong I don't really care what the story is, a breakup is a breakup.. But why not just say there where different plans for the future or it didn't work out as planned or whatever, why degrade the bloc by pretending it was a bloc of opportunity? [/quote] Oh you ill-informed silly hat, it was an NAP proposal for XX. I wouldn't expect you to know this since your dimwitted government was the one that told SF it was for them, despite being told it was for XX. But, we all know that R&R preferred SF over XX in the war. Xiphosis agreed to that !@#$ soo fast it was funny too.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1327806418' post='2909106'] Does this mean open season on Rok? [/quote] I sure as hell wouldn't complain.

Giving the topic and the way of which you (Shatt) like to take the high-ground approach, is it not a bit worrisome that you [i]still[/i] have phone numbers from years and years ago? The normal individual would of gotten rid of them by now. The OP of this topic is a big waste and I am not impressed by the wording and all that !@#$. This ain't the UN.

lol @ the OP.

I must say I'm loving these DH pips. Oh and sorry to see the treaty go, etc.

[quote name='Dre4mwe4ver' timestamp='1327090772' post='2903747'] o/ MHA Beautiful edition. Always a happy day when there's a Don't Panic to be read [/quote] The happy day will be when MHA realizes their !@#$%^&* leadership is exactly that -- !@#$%^&*. Once they realize this and get out from under the stupidity known as their Triumvirate... they'll be quite well off. Until this, failure and resignations is all tthey'll see to be quite frank. I don't hold hope for that since they're destined to keep re-electing the same scheming government that stab each other in the back and cause ministers to want to quit. With love, Cuba

You were a nuisance, I'll give you that.

Still no replacement for me, eh? Heh. The things I could say. I'm pulling for you Umbra!

[quote name='PuliSher' timestamp='1326755038' post='2901133'] One step forward, two backward... Though it may be nice to be under Zep's boot again. [/quote] Please clarify.

Ascension full circle. Heil Zeppelin, Heil the new Kaiser. I'll work on the new graphics. =]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1326680008' post='2900576'] We've already discussed ghost busting for them post-war. They don't seem to have an issue with it. [/quote] lol, there's reasons why.

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1326674569' post='2900472'] NoR is of course the main focus of the entire Black Sphere... [/quote] Agreed.

Repeat again soon.

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1326658543' post='2900163'] GOONS avg. NS is inflated though .. 8 of their top 10 is less than a week seniority and full of MK/TLR guys. [/quote] Sanction is sanction. Congratulations GOONS.

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1326637552' post='2900045'] what...? You know its funny... at no time has the NPO said you will pay X reps. In fact this post went up right after the most lenient terms we could possibly offer (no surrender, no defeat have some fun with a review on beer and guns, no re-entry) and there was STILL hemming and hawing. This post was my amazement of it and how it would affect the future of CN post war wrap ups as well as the amazement of Sparta in her peace negotiations. People get offered simple peace, white, off white, what have you and thats not good enough.... AMAZING. Pretty sure I said this in the OP. Even through today, we have never said any kind of reps so Meth... lay off the Meth. [/quote] The reasoning is simple: XX doesn't feel defeated, MHA got out as soon as they could (but to be fair, it was the membership wanting it, not the gov demanding it) and Fark + Sparta have the same mindset MHA had about not wanting to admit defeat and wanting the terms on their own terms while continuing to lose horribly. But, considering: [quote][22:45] <&KingEd[TPE]> 1) Surrender, 2) Feel Free to Re Enter Clause, 3) Tell Members to Grow a Spine (We want a graphic), 4) 50ktech, at least 20k tech delivered straight to us/ the rest in tech deals. 3/100 [22:45] <&DoctorDoc[MHA]> :/ [22:45] <&Julia_Rose_Vicious> excuse me [22:46] <&OsRavan[ODN]> yes julia? [22:46] <%Drege> Oh, you didn't hear? I take graphics requests for free. [22:47] <%Drege> No need to pay us 50K tech. lol [22:48] <&KingEd[TPE]> These are the terms brought forth by my council, most proposed by me, but supported unanimously. [22:48] <&KingEd[TPE]> You stated earlier you had slots, free. [22:48] <&KingEd[TPE]> Bring it. [22:48] <&Julia_Rose_Vicious> why the hell would they pay you reps? [22:48] <%Drege> idunnolol [22:48] <&KingEd[TPE]> [22:48] <%Drege> I've been farting like crazy tonight. [22:48] <%Drege> All those nachos, I think. [22:48] <&KingEd[TPE]> Julia, dont start with the moral side to a story that doesnt have one. Please. Save me the time.[/quote] TPE wanting that from KofN originally, and MK wanting tech deals from MHA (lol), it got held up. However, Fark + Sparta are just being stupid by delaying the inevitable just so they can say they fought hard. Also, if anyone gets mad about me showing logs... deal with it. Thanks. I think in the future terms as lenient as NPO's will be more prevalent but not [i]as[/i] lenient as NPO's to an alliance that just outright attacked them. I won't lie, I do get the reasoning as to why an alliance with records of nothing but wins due to always fighting on the winning side... would refuse to admit defeat... but still, for the sake of the membership, just do it. I wouldn't personally hold it against them, they showed balls by attacking one of the most militarily competent alliances of the game.

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1326574490' post='2899638'] People can twist your words to the same effect even if you do post, in fact it's easier. [/quote] Here's how you avoid that: don't have dumbass government representing you and muzzle the poodles.

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1326549505' post='2899386'] I think some people have forgotten how this whole surrender and peace terms thing works. Even if you are numerically victorious, the defeated is not obliged to agree or comply with your terms. They can choose to stay at war. If they choose war, give it to them. What is all the complaining about? If you're winning and they want you to keep winning all over their face, continue. Seriously. [/quote] Strictly from an observatory point and having been present when discussions revolving around said OP actions took place numerous days ago: [i]some people just like to watch their own pixels burn.[/i] *Salute to TDK

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1326549044' post='2899382'] To be honest, I think that any alliance that prohibits its members from engaging in this medium, deserve to get the reputation of ego-manias. It communicates that you think you are better than the vast majority of us here, and that this "cesspool" (which is sometimes is, but ALL politics are a cesspool)is beneath you. It says to others that you consider them to be 2nd class in comparison to yourself, because you would not engage in this nonsense. Like anything else, the OWF is a tool of politics. It is more damage not to use the tool, than it is to use it improperly. [/quote] Wow, did we both give the same political lecture to MHA? I feel like you copied my notes. :v

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1326548724' post='2899379'] If you own it or were in charge of putting the faulty electrical wiring in... pretty much. I'm being a little facetious in that the MoFA...welll, any position other than Triumvir in that now-assembly-membership-less autocracy has the ability to make any pertinent decisions (unless you count electing those individuals, dot dot dot,) in that regard, but nonetheless I'm more inclined to have less sympathy when you in fact were a member of the government at the time those decisions were made is all. [/quote] Member of government with no say. Full circle.

I'd like to point out that quite a few alliances are already with the new idea of not keeping war chests and scrapping/avoiding treaties. I can think of a good lot of terrible alliances that fit that bill. I'd also like to point out that spying, while thought to be fun and 'exploration' is nothing more than ... ah nevermind. If you want things to change, hit up the big guy.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1326546733' post='2899368'] To be fair, technically you were the MoFA of that alliance when they made that decision. [/quote] This is like saying because you were in a building when it caught fire, you were partly responsible.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326537674' post='2899344'] Actually, I would have done the same thing in Fark's position, but conventionally. [/quote] When done in a one hit as a group, yes, with associated alliances going after their allies. Not the way this was planned and executed.

It was extremely poor strategy to attack NPO to begin with, I noted this while MoFA in MHA. Clearly, XX believed attacking NPO would shift the dynamics of the war because the statistics stacked against the bloc, clearly that was idiocy to the core. I, for one am very glad I had no part in the planning of the war and was only responsible for foreign affairs for MHA. I understood the strategy, but god damn it was stupid. I remember certain Triumvir's telling me it was brilliant.

Well, this thread was productive.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1326369646' post='2898031'] That's missing the point. Fighting under certain kinds of duress are something entirely unknown to even some (caveat, not all,) of those people here are considering "top elite," military forces... and yet we're comparing apples and oranges anyway. Ah well. [/quote] Well, if put into the context of alliances capable of fighting extended wars.... you'd likely need to take into account multiple tiers of fighting so Umbrella would be out of the top as would MK and the others due to having focused tiers (Umb is top, MK middle), though, one could argue that MK by being a middle-weight alliance could fight quite awhile as seen during the DH/NPO war Jan-April 2011. Alliances that can fight for long periods of time against multiple alliances while [i]dealing[/i] damage to their opponents and not just sustaining it -- those are few. I'd venture to say that TOP/IRON would be more than capable of such a thing but would have lower-tier problems after a month or more. I really don't think there's any alliances that can fight totally on their own for more than two months against more than one alliance that is bigger than them. It's all about political strategy and the ability to end it before it starts to hurt you. But we all know there's just some alliances that just don't give a damn and would rather let everything burn than give in.