Chris Kaos

[quote name='Mussolandia' timestamp='1329839378' post='2925140'] Grenval sure sucked at this game [/quote] Apparently you do too. [quote name='Sir Sci' timestamp='1329848065' post='2925177']Interesting that the same person would go from using a picture of Churchill as his avatar to Abraham Lincoln. He must have had something for great leaders of the past.[/quote] He actually worried about using Abe as his avatar for this exact reason. He thought that the black and white image of a great historical leader might make people connect the dots. Of course, his personality as VX was so drastically different than that of Grenval, no one ever put things together. Well, that's not strictly true, but the three who figured it out had access to things most people didn't (the GATO forums admin panel). While I had scrubbed the forums of any link between the two, Hungchang had checked the IPs against each other right as VX joined, which was before he moved and switched IPs, but when he came to me about it, I dissuaded him of the notion and he apparently was satisfied with my explanation (which was that they must live reasonably close together), and then promptly went about erasing the links. Some months later, something tipped him, Brotherlouie27 and jsims8 off and they went and poked their noses into things, and Hung checked the admin logs and saw what I'd done and the three jerks confronted me about it. So we caved and told them, and they joined our little cadre.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1329827973' post='2925081'] I remember VX. It's been a few years now, but I seem to remember him being forced to resign from the Chairmanship in disgrace after some logs were leaked that proved him to be a rather more insidious character than any of us had surmised. I don't remember exactly what though. He certainly wouldn't have gotten my vote if I'd known he was the two-faced snake he turned out to be. Didn't know Grenval well enough to know weather VX = Grenval is a plausible assertion, though. [/quote] [quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1329835883' post='2925119'] It really depends on what set of logs you saw, and how much of the background of that post you actually know. Mainly, the screenshot that got released onto the OWF was shopped. There were a couple of really important parts that got removed so that it could be used as proof that GATO was preparing to attack NPO. Most people who remember GW2 know we, and our "side" were in no shape to do that. VX got racked over the fire much harder than he ever deserved. [/quote] You're both very wrong, so allow me to correct you. There are three things that made VX go from hero to zero in the eyes of everyone outside of GATO, although those in GATO knew the truth the whole time. 1. SDRD posted a long winded explanation as to why he left GATO and joined NPO, and included logs showing how Vincent Xander asked SDRD to spy on the NPO. This, frankly, was completely ridiculous and entirely a fabrication. Not only was SDRD's post immaculate in its grammar and orthography (which was entirely out of character, as he was German with a rather poor handle on English), claiming a friend helped him write it (more like Philosopher or USBR wrote it for him), but the logs were [i]complete[/i] fabrications. VX and I didn't trust SDRD at all, and we kept a very close eye on him, and if VX had been in need of someone to spy for him, he'd have asked me. 2. VX had a length discussion with Sir Galahad, then-MoFA of the Legion, about how to approach the NPO problem. There was one line in particular where VX said, "Help me hurt the NPO" or something to that effect, by which he meant politically, with propaganda and PR and NOT militarily. These logs were then posted in the general membership area of the Legion by SG, and were promptly leaked to the CN forums. I still can't believe SG had the audacity and balls to claim that the leak came from our end, when literally two people had seen them in GATO--VX and myself. The NPO decided to take it out of context, assign their own meaning, and attack GATO pretty much out of the blue. Those two things were the CB of GWIII, essentially. 3. At this point, VX had served two consecutive terms as AC and couldn't run for a third, so he went for Congress and became Speaker. For those of you who don't know anything about GATO's governmental system, Congress is the legislative body, and from within their ranks, they elect a Speaker, who is first among equals and the general administrator of Congress. VX took it further than that, though, and pushed the limits of what he could do by inserting himself into the peace negotiations, and took a hardline approach with the NPO's negotiators, while Kevlar (the AC at the time), wanted to go a different route. The end result was that the NPO ridiculed him and essentially destroyed his name, and he decided to leave CN after this because the NPO had ruined his fun. That was basically NPO standard operating procedure back then. They delighted in ruining people and alliances. They had no qualms about doing anything in order to win, and there were a lot of people who tried to be genuinely honest and upstanding in CN who just couldn't keep up with the NPO's practices. For those of you who haven't been around long than, let's say, a few months leading up to Karma, you really can't understand how bad they were. MK and friends have tried to be villains, but there's just nothing like vintage NPO villainry.

[quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1329795559' post='2924940'] This is weird to me, because I was a huge fan of Grenval but didn't like Vincent Xander much. I was, of course, an IC enemy of both but I thought Grenval's propaganda was absolutely incredible. The connection makes perfect sense now, but I never made it. Plus the GARO incident was probably the crowning achievement of IC trolling during that first few years. These days, when people want to get a rise, they just call people names or attack them. Boring. The incident, and the other crap he was always pulling, was intelligent yet finely crafted to send his target audience into a full out rage mode. So good. [/quote] Grenval always knew exactly how to rake people over the coals. He was a brilliant satirist. His like has never been seen again.

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1329774446' post='2924757'] When did you find this out? [/quote] Before he joined. I came up with the "Xander" part. I sped him through the ranks by making him my deputy shortly after he joined, and he was GATO's leader a month after he left my service. I also helped cover his tracks so no one would catch on.

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1329766874' post='2924675'] I'm honestly wondering how many people remember VX, much less Grenval at this point. Also, your move NPO [/quote] This is really just for the old guys. Mostly Dilber, Moo, Vlad, Chron, and the like. 2006 Council guys.

No I'm not kidding. I feel five years is long enough to keep the secret at bay. CN may now discuss this revelation at will, for those of you who remember him.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1324053403' post='2879944']As are the defenses but that won't stop me. Y'see, in the old days alliances manipulated, isolated, and fabricated CBs on alliances. These days we declare if we have any semblance of an in and if we just don't like you. Much has changed, and for the better. [/quote] As a former manipulated, isolater and fabricater of CBs, I'd like to say that I miss those days. I mean, wait what?

[quote name='chiles' timestamp='1323969951' post='2878925'] I don't think that we're really going to have overwhelming numbers. I can say that I'm happy to see that we were able to do some pretty nice damage for a fairly small alliance. [/quote] I don't disagree with you. App hit us pretty hard. But to say that what App has done was 'much more effective' than what GATO did to App is just silly.

[quote name='Ezequiel' timestamp='1323929170' post='2878544'] I follow this man above. However, considering the lose of NS from App and MHA on GATO, the damage done has been much more effective than what GATO has done to either of us. Ezequiel. [/quote] Hmm, allow us to take a cursory glance at the data: The Apparatus entered on 12/11 with a Nation Strength of just under 3.2 million. By the time VE entered on 12/14 (and therefore before VE had done any damage), The Apparatus' NS had dropped to 2.8 million, a net loss of just under 400 000 NS. In the same time period, GATO went from slightly under 7.9 million to 7.35 million. A loss of just over 500k NS. Considering the Apparatus was engaged with no other alliance at that time, and GATO was already heavily engaged with MHA, and the fact that there's an advantage from blitzing such an occupied opponent in a coordinated assault, I think it is safe to say that GATO is on equal or superior footing to the Apparatus at this time. Let us not even begin to broach the subject of MHA's losses in this time period. It would be, I think, humiliating for them to consider. Thank you and good day, sir.

[quote name='Phaedron' timestamp='1323925323' post='2878468']I have no ill will towards GATO for asking for help -- we've been a pain in their butt.[/quote] You may not know this, but GATO has no ties to VE. We asked for no help, they joined of their own accord. You may believe otherwise if you wish, but that is the truth of the matter.

[quote name='scutterbug' timestamp='1323722912' post='2875549'] Interesting to note, why would MHA surrender when latest results (as of an hour ago give or take some minutes) show your coalition losing more than us? Albeit our 16,878,82NS to your coalitions 17,637,20NS loss. Curbstomp? My backside fellas! [/quote] Funny. As of right now, MHA has lost 2 200 000 NS, to 650 000 NS for ODN, GATO and The Internatonal. I wasn't aware that 2.2m was a smaller number than 650k. I like your math, though.

[quote name='Epiphanus' timestamp='1323011846' post='2862266'] NPO hailing an announcement with CK's name in it that doesn't include GATO surrendering to something. Times certainly do change. Maybe absence truly did make the heart grow fonder. [/quote] You've missed a few. I think this is my fourth time in Congress since my return.

I wish there were some qualifications laid out so we knew what might be considered a legend. For instance, I doubt anyone would accuse Pius XIII of being a legend, but he was certainly more influential in the early days of Cyber Nations than many leaders of many alliances these days. Anyway, I'll throw my two cents into the mix: Depraved Ivan Moldavi Moo-Cows Dilber Electron Sponge Denial Archon Hrmmm VL Empire To name a few. I could go on for a while, though.

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1310072936' post='2751636'] I stand corrected then although I still have my doubts...Congrats all the same though. [/quote] Of course, because you're in a better position than I am to know whether or not my oldest CN friend is still playing the game. If you take a look at [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80984&st=4220&p=2588428&#entry2588428"]this post[/url] you'll see that she had her nation sat by...oh look, me.

[quote name='benjaminperdomo' timestamp='1310072014' post='2751619'] Das Girl was the one who introduce me to GATO, she was a very awesome recruiter back then. Das [/quote] Go back even further. She recruited me, in March 06.

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1310070337' post='2751590'] Not to downplay this but the original Das Girl left CN years ago...this is simply her nation under someone else's ownership. [/quote] That's categorically untrue. As Das Girl's oldest CN friend, and someone that still speaks with her on a regular basis, I can assure you that she is still caretaking her own nation. Edit: And for the record, the reason why her NS is so low is due to her no longer having the time nor inclination to 'properly' build her nation and generally only becomes active to fight wars.

[quote name='Mixer' timestamp='1308886158' post='2739974'] Yet your entire history has defined you as an alliance that is happy to walk away with a tail between your legs without any hesitation. [/quote] One incident, which has been completely reviled by the nearly the entirety of the alliance, by a former Assembly Chairman is not tantamount to our "entire history." Seriously, who the hell are you? I was there when GATO decided to throw all caution to the wind and stand up for the LUEnited Nations and fight against the New Pacific Order, before it was cool to do so, and cool to hate on them. I was there when GATO followed the NAAC and LUE to war against the Initiative to defend them when all they wanted was for GOONS to stop attacking FARK. So kindly shut the hell up and go read some history before blathering on about something of which you know nothing.

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1308138587' post='2731820'] Apparently you [i]didn't[/i] learn how to handle change. The only thing you accomplished was to prove that, despite how terrible SF is, they still had the capability to beat you like the red-headed stepchild after you talked back to them. Congratulations on that, and good riddance. [/quote] I'm sorry, no one can hear you over the violent sound of your verbal diarrhea. Does it taste good?

[quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1307855925' post='2729635'] Anyone else wonder who's about to be war-dec'd in the above alliances? Lord knows, that's the only reason for GATO to shred paper. [/quote] I'd like for you to kindly name all the times that GATO has cancelled a treaty when an ally has been attacked or about to be attacked. You'll find that the list is very short, and the most recent example of it was conducted by the worst Assembly Chairman in recent memory, for which he was lambasted from both within GATO and without. He then quit in shame after being made a pariah inside our alliance and has been looked upon very poorly since. GATO has a long history of honouring its treaties at great cost to itself, so we would all kindly ask for you to shut up about things of which you know nothing.

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297097316' post='2624108'] There was never a single second any member of GOD said anything about reps from GATO, before, or after any "talks" took place. We don't have a problem with GATO, you haven't caused us any headaches ever I don't believe, we have no grudges, and we didn't take really much damage from you all. Unless something freakish happened, you were never going to get anything other then an easy exit if you wanted it. You entered a side you all rather obviously didn't like to support an ally you're fond of, and got put in a crappy spot. For anyone to say they secured anything from us is a bit dishonest, it implys our coalition actually had plans to make things difficult for an alliance who entered under honorable means. [/quote] Sorry, I absolutely did not mean to imply that. I merely meant to convey my appreciation for the combined forces that we fought against, while honouring our own members who did the grunt work for peace. I absolutely do not believe that there was any mention of reps at all, and I apologize if it seemed that way.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1297052762' post='2623221'] Talk to Xiph. [/quote] You know, the funny thing is that I did in fact speak to Xiphosis last night. Would you like to know what he said? Well, I'll tell you. While you did in fact approach him, he was simultaneously approached by OsRevan of the ODN about the exact same situation. He said he didn't recall which of you two spoke to him first about it, but it was around the same time about the same thing. He then went on to say that neither you nor OsRevan had any bearing on his decision whatsoever, and had GATO approached him independently, he would have been equally receptive to the notion of white peace as he was when you and OsRevan spoke to him. So, Omni, we find that you were not only irrelevant to the entire situation, you are also a boastful and have a hugely inflated sense of self-importance. I think we should give full credit to the combined reason and understanding of GOD, TTK, CRAP and RIA for what happened, as well as to GATO's chief negotiators sgummo and Arsenal.

[quote name='Kubla Khan' timestamp='1296898806' post='2620333'] Do elaborate, my good sir? [/quote] I'm also curious about this one, Omni. Who got peace for whom, exactly? And we'd like details, instead of less than subtle implications of trumped up heroics.

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1296792111' post='2618777'] Apologies to GATO. I still stand by a lot of what I said, that early withdraw hurts a larger more important conflict, but GATO's motives and actions weren't cowardly as I first thought. [/quote] You always were one of the most reasonable, level-headed people around. Good to see you still are. I personally appreciate it this, Raga.

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1296748423' post='2617792'] Perhaps GATO doing what it always does just isn't as interesting as other world events. Seems a bit silly to call attention back to your failure. I love you guys, but again? Really? [/quote] Raga, you've been my buddy since I first joined GATO. Hell, you were the one who processed my application, back when we worked through the CN forums and in-game PMs and had a Minister of Immigration. You and I set the policy tone for GATO for ages and ages together, and you and I were the ones that pushed Yoda into declaring on NPO all those years ago. So when I say I have a great amount of respect for you, you understand what I mean. But you honestly have no clue what you're talking about here. I assume the "again" is referring to what happened with NSO. I agree, that was a crappy situation and GATO made the worst move of all the ones available to them. NSO was hit directly and GATO should have rolled to war in support of their friends. This with IAA isn't the same situation at all. IAA was not attacked directly, they were supporting a war we did not condone, nor had any stake in whatsoever, except to ensure the continued safety of our friends in IAA. Had IAA been hit, we'd have gone down in flames with them, but that's not the case. So kindly take your high horse elsewhere.

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1295953247' post='2599841'] Please correct me if I am wrong, for I wasn't around way back when, but isn't there more to the story than just how NPO [i]started[/i] the conflicts? [/quote] Obviously. From the end of the Great War until the Karma war, the NPO was in a large, dominating power bloc which effectively moderated the flow of political power throughout CN and despite the best efforts of several parties, until the Karma war rolled around, they won every war they ever fought handily. That's for a start, anyway. If you can't see that MK has been doing the same thing since the end of Karma, I really don't know what to tell you. [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295953307' post='2599842'] The way I look at it, condemning an offensive action is a show of support to the alliance that is being attacked, but whichever way you want to play it. The irony is still enormous and I still want to know what the hell Doomhouse did to Planet Bob. [/quote] I can see why you'd believe that, but in this case, it's more of a moral outrage than a show of support. [quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1295953411' post='2599847'] Unfortunately might it be possible that they haven't "exhibited the same tendencies" because they haven't wielded the same level of power, whereas the the opposite is true with respect to MK. [/quote] Since I've returned (July of last year), they've wielded more than enough power on their own to begin slowly shuffling the pieces around the board to suit their purposes should they have wanted that, but they've been playing a much subtler game. They used to wield the broadsword, now it's a scalpel.