Land of True Israel

[center][img]http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj79/cybernationsart/Db4dflag6-2.png[/img][/center] After many ups and downs, it finally happened. We have passed 2 mil total Nation Strength. [center][img]http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj79/cybernationsart/2milss.png[/img][/center] On another note, we have opened a new forum. All alliances are welcome to stop by, chew the fat, set up an embassy, whatever floats your boat. http://cn-deathb4dishonor.forumotion.com/

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1315734711' post='2798645'] That was after I was already fighting you guys. [/quote] Actually, first discussions were made prior to you even flying the MAD AA.

It's pretty much a universally understood ethic. It would even be more slippery of a slope if assisting rogue nations became acceptable under the guise of "innocent" tech deals. Ignorance of fact is never a solid excuse. [quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315622851' post='2797741'] Just curious what gives you the right to dictate who nations can and can't do tech deals with? Straight up aid I can see, however if he is fulfilling his end of the bargain in a tech deal what gives you this right? In addition if someone does a deal with him and they are nations that don't check the OWF why is it the responsibility for every alliance to spread your edict on this subject or else suffer your wrath or your extortion demands of reps? This is your mess I suggest cleaning it up yourself It's a very slippery slope and a dangerous area when alliances can dictate who tech deals are done with [/quote]

Congrats to our good friends in NEW! Excellent no BS rogue policy as well.

As the current protector of Mutually Assured Destruction, and as somebody who has been in recent and nearly constant contact with MAD gov, I can state with a certainty that is is completely bogus. I do not believe Methrage is even a legitimate member of MAD, let alone anybody with the authority to speak for MAD Government. The actual leaders of MAD have full respect for the clauses of our protection agreement, which this, if it were legitimate, would be a full violation thereof.

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1313196342' post='2778981'] I like how of all the people arguing for VA, it's Aryan. That makes me laugh more than anything. That just shows how much DB4D was involved with VA internal affairs, which eventually resulted in VA's downfall. When VA was at war, and TPF was out, it wasn't that TPF refused to go in. VA never requested TPF's assistance and in discussions with TPF at that time, I was handling military affairs, as there was nobody else taking up the slack. I was the one working with TPF and I was the one who came to an agreement with TPF that in that war, we didn't request TPF's assistance because they'd just gotten their ******* handed to them in a different war. Don't start bawing about how TPF didn't aid or assist VA in that war. It was agreed upon by both alliances that they didn't enter. Now, in this last war, VA straight LIED to TPF and hid from the war. Erixxxx was asked, in person in chat, if VA would be honoring the treaty....and his response was YES. Not that they didn't have the activity, not that since TPF didn't assist in VA's war that they wouldnt, none of those. he said YES. Him lying and changing his mind is solely based on DB4D and friends not wanting to get beat down. you took mankiller's stance and ran and hid. There's no way to sugarcoat that. Plain and simple, you were scared and you let DB4D dictate your internal decisions. Oh, and bitter? Not at all. I'm ecstatic that they can't trash my alliance anymore. And wander, yeah, i agree, we made a horrible decision and we regretted it til we left. We should never have settled for Erixxxx. We both had RL situations where neither could lead anymore, and our best option was Erixxxx, which unfortunately ended up being the downfall of VA. Such is life, we all move on. And if I didn't make it clear, I'm ******* elated that VA is finally put to rest. [/quote] I love how you twist the truth, I guess that's what makes you a good propaganda minister, heh? I've already seen the conversation where Mhawk specifically told Erixxx that they won't be defending them, using his interpretation of the treaty as an excuse. That would be highly unnecessary if both had agreed that TPF shouldn't help in the first place. But let's not let logic and facts get in the way of your VA slamming session lol I'm done with this one now. You may continue to show your class by slamming a disbanded alliance ad nauseum, it is very becoming of you.

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1313194811' post='2778968'] You seem to conveniently have been left out of the information loop. TPF was told at first that VA would ride out. When nothing else was heard attempts to contact VA were made to no avail. Then a month or so later we were "informed" that VA was too inactive to participate in a war. Why is it that they could participate in one war and not another? I think the problem here lies within DB4D and not VA. VA has never before been chafe in the wind until DB4D started pulling her strings. TPF has never sought to pull VA's strings, but we have sought honesty and integrity. That is all we have ever given and that is all we have ever expected. That which you lack will be your undoing. [/quote] You are missing the first part all together. When VA had planned to go to war in defense of WFF during the NEW conflict, VA asked TPF for assistance. That's when TPF decided they weren't going to defend VA if VA defended WFF. Why is this part being ignored?

[quote name='wanderofys' timestamp='1313144744' post='2778509'] I might get behind you guys if one of you didn't appoint him and then start pointing fingers when it didn't go down the way you planned You are wrong. [b]You don't opt out of defending an ally when they request your help[/b], ever, unless your alliance is horrible. Just as I told them when I was there, if they didn't want to fight for TPF, they should have canceled the treaty. The treaty was not canceled, they STILL didn't fight even after saying they would, and at that point I knew I had to leave. [/quote] You seem to have conveniently forgotten a few facts. TPF first refused to help VA when VA requested, on the grounds that the nature of their treaty did not obligate them to get involved. How can this be acceptable, yet when VA refuses on those same grounds it's considered unacceptable? VA was only going off of TPF's interpretation of their treaty. Furthermore, why didn't TPF just cancel if they didn't want to help VA, as you said should be the appropriate action, instead of go on and expect VA to obediently jump to their aid at a later time? As much as you may want to ignore it, double standards were at play.

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1313116168' post='2778225'] Not much of a difference between you two. Although, we both know Wifey runs things, just like she pulled Erixxx's strings in VA. Common denominator...neither of you have a lick of leadership qualities and added together, you have 1/2 a set of cojones. [/quote] Awwww how cute. It looks like little old connor is taking this one to the cheeks lol Your idea of "leadership" is being a lapdog, so no, we don't have that which you consider to be leadership qualities.

[quote name='boskosbigdawgs' timestamp='1313110790' post='2778096'] I do feel I must throw in a couple comments myself. Although I cant take credit for it's creation I was there darn near the beginning. VA was an alliance I once loved and served loyally. The days with Conner and Mrott as Lord Protectors were our glory days. I think both Mrott and Conner also summed it up best with what they said and there's no sense in essentially repeating what's already here. It was sad to see the demise of a once great alliance. To hear that Mankiller is Lord Protector of DB4D, well all I can say to that is, I cant believe that the lessons of VA are now going to take down another alliance. The only good thing to come from this is that the VA name will cease to exist, the shame that it began to represent will be gone. [/quote] Then you should be pleased to know that there is no such a thing as a Lord Protector in DB4D, and my position as leader of of the alliance has not changed. We do appreciate your genuine concern though.

[quote name='mrott' timestamp='1313029281' post='2777140'] So what you are saying is that it was right for VA to not honor treaties because DB4D didn't want them to. Got it... All is understood now, and I believe my point has been enforced. I guess you're just crazy... [/quote] No, I'm saying it was acceptable for VA to choose to opt out of defending an "ally" who themselves opted out of defending them previously. Especially when said "ally", in both situations was acting only in the interest of a party unrelated to VA. Not everybody appreciates being used. Having a strong opinion, and "dictating" are two different things.

[quote name='mrott' timestamp='1313024426' post='2777077'] Praise the Lord, VA can finally be put to rest. This alliance has long since been dead and has been just dragged through the mud for the longest time. This at one point used to be a relatively grand alliance, particularly relating back to the days around SSSW18 and DefCon. VA was at the very least a force to be recognized. It began to dwindle and die then. How long ago was that? A long effing time ago. It has since continued to dwindle and good quality gov just couldn't be found. The alliance made do with what it had and it continued to dwindle. Finally the fallout began and that was when the alliance should have been dismantled. It wasn't... I even stuck around hoping it could be saved and brought back. I knew it was a dim shot in hell but after all my time invested it was worth it to me. In the end I through in the towel as well. I had no choice. VA was dead to me as well as to anyone that actually knew what VA truly really was at its prime. Interestingly enough, upon my resignation I made a prediction. I don't recall exactly what all was in it, but I do know that I stated outright that TPF would cancel it's treaty with VA (happened not all that long ago) and VA would merge with DB4D. Am I good? No... I'm just not blind. The individuals leading VA were too concerned what DB4D gov had to say rather than digging deep to find their own balls to make their own decisions on what they should do when it comes to honoring treaties and such and in turn allowed DB4D to dictate how the VA gov should run the alliance. Have you ever let a smaller, less significant dictate how to run your alliance? Well this is the way the VA gov wanted to do it. If you didn't before, do you now understand why they merged? Honestly I am shocked that NEW agreed to a treaty with them. VA only had one alliance left to turn to and that was DB4D. They must have been desperate since it appears that they are letting mankiller run the show over there. That might be the worst decision yet...and reading through this post alone I have made reference to just a few. To sum all this up: - VA has been dead for a long time, glad to finally see it's name no longer disgraced. - NEW, not to tell you how to run your show since I do respect your alliance and your members, but I would reconsider the treaty. - To the new "DB4D" I guess we'll be seeing a merger or dismemberment announcement from you in the not so distant future. o/ those who remember the true VA [/quote] Hello MRott, I see you had to show up and take another final stab at VA before it completely ceases from existing as an Alliance Affiliation. Classy move. Unfortunately it doesn't come as a surprise. It's funny how you accuse DB4D of dictating anything. Maybe I'm just crazy, but when an "ally" treaty-lawyers their way out of defending you in one conflict, and then expects you to jump with no hesitation when the situation is reversed in another conflict just to protect an ally of theirs that has no connection to you, it sometimes helps to hear the opinion of the friends who stand beside you, [b]unconditionally.[/b] I think principals called the shot there, not DB4D. I don't intend to let this final VA thread turn into a flame war. I said my piece on this subject.

Welcome to our VA Brethren Much respect to NEW o/

Congrats on the merger. May the new alliance prosper. PS. Jgoods, don't go forgetting about your good buddies in GRAN 2.0

Congrats, NEW! o/

[center]An announcement from:[/center] [center][size="7"]Death Before Dishonor [/size][/center] [center][img]http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5976/mediumflag.png[/img][/center] Good Evening/Morning Planet Bob. Let it be known that of this moment, the Alliance Affiliation "Order of the Dragon" is hereby under the protection of Death Before Dishonor. Their right to peacefully exist will be protected as if it were our own. [b] DB4D-[/b] Aryan83 BWC153 Azteka KarmaSutra

Good to hear

He forgot drinkability

Coke and Pepsi have a tremendous difference in taste.

Congrats, Paragon!

1.) I agree. It's about as stupid as calling a single ZI sentence an eternal ZI and thus "unacceptable", just because the target chose not to willingly reach ZI. Off topic, yes, but same principal. 2.) Technically you are right, you can only be forced into bill-lock, and deletion, but you can still come back and fly the same AA.

With power often comes corruption. Could also be using IC to vent OOC frustrations as well. People who get picked on allot seem to pick on others when they get the opportunity.

Sounds as if you folks are having a blast Give it hell o/

I was always quite fond of Atlantis.

To put it lightly, I never cared much for TGE. I had long hoped that we would end up on opposite sides of the same battlefield just so I can punish some of your nations. With that said, this is still an unfortunate announcement, as TGE has been a familiar part of the Political landscape since I was still a semi-noob. Good luck wherever your paths may lead.