Choader

[quote name='Seerow' date='02 April 2010 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1270258845' post='2246058'] You're confusing me with SW. I was the one who said from the start FoB was at war and the initial temporary leave was understandable. What is not understandable is the continued absence, and then the denial that staying from your alliance for so long, including through a period where FoB WAS at war is not abandoning your alliance. Had you returned at the conclusion of WWE, or even once TOP et al declared war on CnG I would have no problem with your action. However you didn't, you stayed in PC while FoB suffered for it, and then come back in this very thread to insult the people who picked up the slack in your place while denying that your actions had any negative impact on FoB. [/quote] Since you agree with me that FoB was not at war at the time of the alleged desertion, you'll probably also then agree that the opening comment was slanderous to the founders of the alliance. I'm not a founder by the way. While I can appreciate Stormsend working on behalf of my ally over there I don't appreciate the needlessly abrasive introduction to a charter announcement, of all things. [quote name='SirWilliam' date='02 April 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1270258924' post='2246060'] Yes. MK top brass makes a habit of encouraging active membership to join other alliances. ...seriously? [/quote] Yes, seriously. I'll be happy to share with you some snippets that indicate exactly that. You may or may not say they're false but I'd be interested to hear your interpretation.

[quote name='Seerow' date='02 April 2010 - 06:32 PM' timestamp='1270258327' post='2246041'] I can only imagine your thought process here. "I can't think of any arguments against what they're saying. What do I do?! I wait I know, I'll point out the people I'm arguing with are from MK, they're clearly ganging up on me to make an unreasonable viewpoint seem right, everyone knows they have rediculous propaganda. Clearly once I point this out everyone will realize I was right all along because MK is the root of all evil" Am I close? [/quote] No, but it's a good try. I don't need to argue anything because apparently our definitions of "at war" and "not at war" are not the same, so there's little use in comparing them. If you consider a skirmish between three alliances that was never intended to escalate being "at war" for FoB then I have little use in discussing it with you. And no, MK is not the root of all evil. Not by a long shot. Despite an unfortunate falling out I still respect MK for what it is, but not for everything it does. No one has yet denied Stormsend and Tammerlane were encouraged by their superiors to join FoB and "reorganize" it. There's no rebuttal?

What's funny is all of you claiming FoB was wronged are from MK, that speaks volumes right there doesn't it.

[quote name='Seerow' date='02 April 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1270257222' post='2246000'] I assume you meant to say "over a week before C&G was at war" which would be an accurate statement. Why, when FoB was actually forced into the war you didn't return back home though is the question at hand. There is no reason for you to have stayed in PC as long as you have, and the only logical conclusion can be that you abandoned your alliance. That's your choice, but don't complain when someone who's stepping up to the plate in your place calls you on it. [/quote] It's not abandonment, it's more like coming to a growing realization about the nature of foreign entanglements.

[quote name='Seerow' date='02 April 2010 - 06:11 PM' timestamp='1270257083' post='2245996'] Yeah like anybody likes Ronin enough to join. pfft. On topic, Choader if it was only temporary why is it when the war was brought to FoB did you not return to your former alliance? I can understand feeling strongly enough you wish to fight without putting allies in a tight spot, and dropping alliance is the best way to do that. But there comes a point where if you haven't gone back there is no excuse. You left your alliance with no leadership for all intents and purposes to die. If someone wants to step in and do what you don't have the balls to do yourself, who the hell are you to berate them? [/quote] FoB was in good hands with Shinpah, and when you're already at war what difference does it make where you're fighting from. Every one of us who left previous to the attacks on FoB was preoccupied on other fronts.

[quote name='Affluenza' date='02 April 2010 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1270256341' post='2245970'] How is it false? Did you not desert?...your still flying under the PC banner...so I fail to see the temporary...seems more permanent. [/quote] Ask your government why it became permanent. [quote name='SirWilliam' date='02 April 2010 - 06:02 PM' timestamp='1270256547' post='2245978'] I believe Stormsend's comment was a rather neutral statement of the facts (iirc FoB's founders left early on in the WWE, during a war, as was stated). Anyhow, looking good, FoB. Much love. <3 [/quote] Again, no. We left when your good polar buddies decided to bring war to our allies, and over a week C&G was at war.

[quote name='Mundokiir' date='02 April 2010 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1270248883' post='2245775'] We can attribute this to the sudden and unfortunate departure of all but one key government member. As the previous administration left the alliance with nothing, in the middle of a war, we chose to divide our efforts to both fighting alongside our comrades in the Complaints and Grievances Union and fixing the rotting framework that made up our alliance. [/quote] What the $%&@, why do you find it necessary to slander your alliance's founders in a charter announcement? we left over a week before the war on what was to be a temporary excursion, supporting allies that your own previous alliance wouldn't hear of us defending. Calling the previous administration disloyal deserters in the midst of war is patently false and a little hilarious coming from a carpetbagger. Tell me, when did a sudden concern for FoB occur for you and Tamerlane? Did you join of your own volition or were you on a mission?

In a means to an end sort of way what Ram and Gre are doing is defensible. Perhaps many of the alliances who entered to defend C&G are ready for peace, but no one "needs" it besides TIDT. If Gre delays the peace process by a week or two it's just that much less they'll have to rebuild with and that many more collections in anarchy or peace mode. It cuts both ways of course but the damage currently being taken by C&G and allies is too spread out to matter all that much. Gre knows they won't get an unconditional surrender (as defined by IRON, lol), though if they believe IRON hasn't been knocked around enough as many do then this whole episode can be chalked up as a victory.

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' date='01 April 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1270155612' post='2244320'] \m/ and NpO should have a duel, and the winner gets RoK. [/quote] It would be the greatest recruitment drive \m/'s ever seen.

Feels like a midget is hanging from my necklace [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Gold_medal_icon.svg/16px-Gold_medal_icon.svg.png[/img]

[quote name='President Buseje' date='30 March 2010 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1270009832' post='2241859'] Urrrgh, this is ridiculous. Waking up to find your alliance being absorbed by another, and then applying to the new one only to be treated like a child and expected to tediously recite the basics in some 'Academy' process, MK is treating our members like newbies and colonies, the least they could show is show respect an leniency to us, it's not like most of us chose to have our alliance get absorbed like this. Screw that, seriously. [/quote] That's the price of joining an alliance with high standards, and the fact is that if you decided to go elsewhere you'd very likely still have to go through an academy or application process. I'm quite sure that MK is going to show a little more deference and patience with former Darkstar members then if you were just a random applicant, but it's all for your own good if you're interested in being a knowledgeable and contributing member. Would you [i]want[/i] to be part of an alliance who would take you with no questions asked?

The Grämlins' participation is not through a joint offensive operation, which is what article one is referencing. Ironically enough it was written after participating in an offensive operation alongside TOP that left them with a bad taste in their mouths after the reparation discussions. No they aren't. Nice try.

[quote name='MCRABT' date='30 March 2010 - 02:01 PM' timestamp='1269982891' post='2241338'] I would wager a week in the IRON academy would do wonders for your IQ, perhaps even double it! [/quote] I've seen what comes out of the IRON academy, no thanks.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' date='30 March 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1269981553' post='2241310'] Choader, no alliance has ever been asked to do an unconditional surrender. [/quote] Another way to put it, is no other alliance has needed that much guidance and help until now. IRON has proven to be completely incapable of being a self-supporting and independent alliance, who better to show them how then Grämlins? I'd wager there's hardly anything that would do IRON more good.

[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' date='30 March 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1269981205' post='2241304'] I don't even know why I attempt to explain things to people like you. You should first learn reading comprehension before you post. IRON has agreed to surrender to CnG with the terms they offered. Gremlins wants IRON's [u][b]UNCONDITIONAL[/b][/u] surrender. Basically meaning Gremlins would be able to do whatever they wanted to IRON. [/quote] Yeah, and where's the problem.

[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' date='30 March 2010 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1269980100' post='2241287'] We aren't going to let you continue to destroy our tech for another week and then give you the same amount of reps. Securing peace now rests solely on your side. It is not our fault Gremlins want the unconditional surrender of IRON for God knows what reason. [/quote] Surrendering is what you do when you're defeated. If IRON isn't defeated then why would they stop fighting?

[quote name='Sup4l33t3ki11a' date='30 March 2010 - 12:46 AM' timestamp='1269935197' post='2240989'] Almost as important as PC are [/quote] My point was that by your logic any number of fallen, formerly relevant alliances could be considered important, even ones like GGA and MCXA who are no more then an afterthought on the scene today. Previously holding a sanction does not make an alliance important. [quote name='Sup4l33t3ki11a' date='30 March 2010 - 02:20 AM' timestamp='1269940813' post='2241004'] I agree apart from the fact that you said they have good leadership, PC have let me down before on that point. [/quote] What did PC ever do to you? I would say that Poison Clan has pretty damn good leadership, considering the way they turned a scheduled beat down into a decisive victory and the alliance emerged stronger then ever. Just try to find any other alliance who went into a war hopelessly outnumbered, fought 7 alliances, and came out the other side 15 places higher in the alliance rankings.

[quote name='Sup4l33t3ki11a' date='30 March 2010 - 12:36 AM' timestamp='1269934590' post='2240984'] MCXA are pretty darn important as an Alliance, people are too quick to forget that they were once the 3rd ranked alliance in the game before the TSO stuff. There are some great people there who do a good job maintaining a (in my opinion) fairly respectable alliance nowdays. No-one can second guess the gopherbashi [/quote] So would you say GGA are pretty darn important too?

Please, no more medals. We're all starting to look like hunchbacks.

Good luck phillip110, sounds like fun.

[quote name='Newhotness' date='25 March 2010 - 04:40 PM' timestamp='1269560394' post='2236723'] i guess silver will have to do for today [/quote] Screw that, we'll just have to make our own platinum medal.

FWIW ~35 of those 58 left to fight and are still residing in other alliances, most notably PC. Some of the remaining 23 surrendered, one or two were expelled, leaving less then a dozen who may have deleted.

Another gold for PC, and it's in land. Whoda thunk it.

Congrats to LXXQTJMN and TLK.

[quote name='mushi' date='23 March 2010 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1269378457' post='2234423'] Go PC, We'll win these olympics for sure [/quote] Shut up before you jinx us.