La Vanguardia Pacifica

You know our side expected TPF's allies to actually do something. It was an unintentional curbstomp.

It was a curbstomp just a smaller curbstomp than you wanted.

TPF attempting to sabotage Athens wasn't a joke, and it was met with the necessary response. Even so, a week of war ending in white peace is still far better than anything received by those who crossed NPO and friends. As far as your comment about TIO, I wasn't aware we were a big player in the world. Regardless, last I checked OO wasn't destroyed, since the war didn't go beyond the threat stage. So unless you think being asked to issue a half assed apology is worse than the way Pacifica and friends treated people, then you either need some perspective, or forgot entirely what it was like living under the Continuum.

LOL thats really a pathetic answer. You are still rambling about NPO after a year and a half on top, 2 global curbstomps and many smaller beatdowns, banned gov, reps that not even NPO would have pulled and you are still ranting about ancient history. Grow up and take responsability for what you have done this year, dont keep saying well years ago blah blah blah. This is not the past, its the present where you and your cronies beat down alliances for nothing and demand more reps than is all the wars in history combined.

The lesson to be taken from the Xiphosis Experiment, therefore, is the reaffirmation of the victory of an enhanced unipolarity, where there is no competition: only the powerful -- playing whimsical games and jokes on an international scale -- and the powerless -- sitting with their heads down, hoping not to end up a victim.

As opposed to the Hegemony era, where the powerful and classless sat at the top, peering into everyone's business and making victims on a near weekly basis.

Yes, life is terrible these days. Peace is so boring. Why won't they just go back to attacking everyone for whatever reason.

It pains me to say this but I concur. It as if the principles for which Karma was fought (well at least what I fought for) have faded into dust

As far as your comment about TIO, I wasn't aware we were a big player in the world. Regardless, last I checked OO wasn't destroyed, since the war didn't go beyond the threat stage. So unless you think being asked to issue a half assed apology is worse than the way Pacifica and friends treated people, then you either need some perspective, or forgot entirely what it was like living under the Continuum.

1/3

Why does being a big player have to do with making a joke? If you think NPO and friends would have tried to force a war over a 'your mom' joke, then you are a joke. I think you need to stop looking at all the Vox propaganda and actually look at the world.

As opposed to the Hegemony era, where the powerful and classless sat at the top, peering into everyone's business and making victims on a near weekly basis.

Yes, life is terrible these days. Peace is so boring. Why won't they just go back to attacking everyone for whatever reason.

The powerful in that era is far more classy than it is today.

Yeah, like because someone posted my fanfic on the forums. Or a 'your mom' joke. Or someone raided someone so we're going to defend them. Someone called us a mean name(s). Those are all quality CB's over the traditional spying and what not.

It pains me to say this but I concur. It as if the principles for which Karma was fought (well at least what I fought for) have faded into dust

Glad you've opened your eyes. Now where is that TOP sig? You know the Karma and Hegemony different names same taste.

Some of us still like to believe in the principles of Karma though.

The powerless have always stood with their heads down and hoped to not be the next victim. Difference is, nowadays the threat is "whimsical games and jokes," whereas it was destruction, disbandment, or extortion that they faced in the old days.

If anything, this shows how much better the change in power was for Planet Bob, rather than remaining under Pacifica's rule.

Trying to get people to judge the benevolence of SG against NPO standards is pretty silly because those standards were so SO SO low that exceeding them in itself is nothing noteworthy.

It'd just be nicer if they set their own (preferably higher) standards, you know? NPO has been out of power a while now and we could do things completely differently, surely that would be better than SG defaulting to the lowest possible 'we're bad but we're not NPO bad' position throughout their reign over the world.

Glad you've opened your eyes. Now where is that TOP sig? You know the Karma and Hegemony different names same taste.

Some of us still like to believe in the principles of Karma though.

heh the principles I fought for were fuelled by the injustices I had to face personally at the hands of the old Order, therefore you and I could not possibly be on the same page .

I further contend that Karma is nothing like the old order who perpetrated injustice on a far larger and more brutal scale, yet I am in agreement that the sort of episodes that the OP is pointing out that have taken place since Karma are in indeed poor taste...but let us not obscure the nature of the old hegemony and One Vision and the way they ran things.

Perhaps one needs to have lived under the shadow of the Jackboot for a couple of years to get an idea of what is was like for those of us on the wrong side of the tracks back then.

heh the principles I fought for were fuelled by the injustices I had to face personally at the hands of the old Order, therefore you and I could not possibly be on the same page .

I further contend that Karma is nothing like the old order who perpetrated injustice on a far larger and more brutal scale, yet I am in agreement that the sort of episodes that the OP is pointing out that have taken place since Karma are in indeed poor taste...but let us not obscure the nature of the old hegemony and One Vision and the way they ran things.

Perhaps one needs to have lived under the shadow of the Jackboot for a couple of years to get an idea of what is was like for those of us on the wrong side of the tracks back then.

The principles I fought for was fueled by the injustice my friends had to face and I had to face. I suggest you learn someone's history before you try to talk about something you know nothing about.

Not yet, but give it time. It's only been a couple months after the TOP war.

Perhaps, but I believe I would know after seeing many friends be put on PZI, from nuking someone or just being affiliated with that alliance. I've seen friends get attacked for spying and when we asked where the CB was they threatened to attack us. I've been under those shoes for a good bit of time, even when I was protected by TOP. So, I believe I've learned a couple of things from being under the boot.

LOL nice try Vlad.

As much of a dick move this was it was, it was just equivalent to a bully going "boo" at the little guy for fun versus the NPO times when you'd beat the living !@#$ out of the little guy for supposedly giving you a funny look.

Yep, the new structure is so much worse. lol.

I find it fascinating that nobody (including Xiphosis) has even attempted to defend the the post-Karma world on its own terms. They just keep sucking on their opiate.

The principles I fought for was fueled by the injustice my friends had to face and I had to face. I suggest you learn someone's history before you try to talk about something you know nothing about.

Not yet, but give it time. It's only been a couple months after the TOP war.

Perhaps, but I believe I would know after seeing many friends be put on PZI, from nuking someone or just being affiliated with that alliance. I've seen friends get attacked for spying and when we asked where the CB was they threatened to attack us. I've been under those shoes for a good bit of time, even when I was protected by TOP. So, I believe I've learned a couple of things from being under the boot.

I have seen injustice meted out since GW2 by the old order on the flimsiest of pretexts (not too mention spurious CB's) so do not presume that such things are a creation of Karma. If you truly think the Post-Karma world is worse than the one it replaced then you are both deluded and biased (and obviously where not around for the days when the Jackboot reigned surpreme).

I have to admit, the sound track had a very nice effect on the read. Well done.

I have seen injustice meted out since GW2 by the old order on the flimsiest of pretexts (not too mention spurious CB's) so do not presume that such things are a creation of Karma. If you truly think the Post-Karma world is worse than the one it replaced then you are both deluded and biased (and obviously where not around for the days when the Jackboot reigned surpreme).

I don't presume terrible CBs are creation of karma. Please tell me when I said that. I've also never said that post-karma world is worse than the one that it replaced. Now, is the new world bad? Yeah. Is it as bad as the one it replaced? No. I think you're the deluded and biased one if you don't think this world is bad. Obviously you're still not informed. Please, sit down.

I don't presume terrible CBs are creation of karma. Please tell me when I said that. I've also never said that post-karma world is worse than the one that it replaced. Now, is the new world bad? Yeah. Is it as bad as the one it replaced? No. I think you're the deluded and biased one if you don't think this world is bad. Obviously you're still not informed. Please, sit down.

Well this is where you and I must disagree, I do not see the current climate as bad especially in contrast to the one it replaced (which is a key point). But i do concede that some questionable episodes have taken place but again this is in no way comparable to what went on before. As for sitting down I reserve the right to put forth my opinion just like you have, I remember a time when doing so was hazardous which funnily enough pre-dates Karma

You have a good day now.

Well this is where you and I must disagree, I do not see the current climate as bad especially in contrast to the one it replaced (which is a key point). But i do concede that some questionable episodes have taken place but again this is in no way comparable to what went on before. As for sitting down I reserve the right to put forth my opinion just like you have, I remember a time when doing so was hazardous which funnily enough pre-dates Karma

You have a good day now.

If you compare the climate to what it used to be then yes, it's good. A few things could possibly be worse than what has happened. You have to see if it's good or bad depending on your ideals. Like the Karma ones you believe you have. Unless your ideals boiled down to getting NPO out of power. Then yes, this would be a good climate. I'm asking you to sit down because you have no idea of my history and keep bringing it up, and wrongly I might add. Also, yes I remember my alliance was threatened because of putting up their opinion.

I find it fascinating that nobody (including Xiphosis) has even attempted to defend the the post-Karma world on its own terms. They just keep sucking on their opiate.

The defense of karma is in the actions of alliances. Alliances are relatively free to do what they want (be it stupid jokes or serious political moves) without having to tip toe around. Unlike many i can mention, your own alliance hasnt been re-rolled a la FAN and thats already a huge step forward.

The "you are as bad as us" argument was mindbogglingly stupid to start with and got old a year ago.

You might have to go more subtle and sophisticated to manipulate the public cuz the current effort is lacking.

There is no "you are as bad as us" argument coming from me. I am simply holding Karma up against its own rhetoric, and there is no response forthcoming. Rather, the situation has been reversed and the only argument being made by proponents of the C&G/SF hegemony is "we're not as bad as you were" -- something that certainly did get old a year ago. Long gone is the positive message that rallied so many idealistic young nations to the cause, as this message would now damage, rather than enhance, the power of the central alliances. Instead all we're left with is negative propaganda against the Continuum (much of which is still alive and well at the top of the new structure), claiming that while all the structures and systems so loathed by Karma during the war remain in tact, the new rulers are kind enough to throw a few more scraps from their table to the plebeians below.

As for "free to do what they want" -- this single sentence speaks volumes about how much, and how little, things have changed.

Certainly, C&G/SF are free to do what they want, whether it be playing jokes on 'lesser' alliances or making serious political moves against them; but that is not a result of a changed political system, it is the result them now being in power. It could have been said of any hegemony, from the Coaluetion to the Continuum. But it is not a freedom that those outside the hegemonic centre enjoy. The only difference, therefore, is that you are now viewing things from a top-down perspective rather than from the bottom-up.

Of course, some of us would have expected no less.

As an additional point, some will have noticed that I have never been very good at replying to comments that broadly agree with me, and this is perhaps something that I should improve on.

To that end, I thank those who took the time to read and take in the argument, I salute those who enjoyed a fine Nine Inch Nails tune, and I console Ashoka with the fact that I had very little to add to the discussion on the incident itself that hadn't already been said better by others.

There is no "you are as bad as us" argument coming from me. I am simply holding Karma up against its own rhetoric, and there is no response forthcoming. Rather, the situation has been reversed and the only argument being made by proponents of the C&G/SF hegemony is "we're not as bad as you were" -- something that certainly did get old a year ago. Long gone is the positive message that rallied so many idealistic young nations to the cause, as this message would now damage, rather than enhance, the power of the central alliances. Instead all we're left with is negative propaganda against the Continuum (much of which is still alive and well at the top of the new structure), claiming that while all the structures and systems so loathed by Karma during the war remain in tact, the new rulers are kind enough to throw a few more scraps from their table to the plebeians below.

As for "free to do what they want" -- this single sentence speaks volumes about how much, and how little, things have changed.

Certainly, C&G/SF are free to do what they want, whether it be playing jokes on 'lesser' alliances or making serious political moves against them; but that is not a result of a changed political system, it is the result them now being in power. It could have been said of any hegemony, from the Coaluetion to the Continuum. But it is not a freedom that those outside the hegemonic centre enjoy. The only difference, therefore, is that you are now viewing things from a top-down perspective rather than from the bottom-up.

Of course, some of us would have expected no less.

Yes, we have those freedoms. That ignores all the freedoms you enjoy, though. Such as this blog where we allow you to attempt to hurt our reputation. You aren't being ordered to take it down and you are not being attacked for it. Your complaints about us and how oppressive we are counter your claims -- just the fact that we allow this type of criticism is proof that we offer the community the freedoms we told them we would deliver in Karma.

With every post in which you complain about how little things have changed, and that we have not provided any of the benefits we said we would, you prove yourself wrong.

'Do something about it or shut up.' How far we have come.

Bingo.

Sorry it's still nowhere near as bad as it was under the NPO.

It's a whole lot more boring. It became very apparent after the Karma War that the NPO had been responsible for much of the political dynamism of this game. The game became static without them in the picture. And while the NPO was an alliance that made no secret of its willingness to do nearly anything to maintain its supremacy in the game, the alliances in power these days seem bent on doing things simply because of a petty "because we can" attitude.

Anyhow, I don't see anything big happening in this game for a long time. The treaty web has been totally screwed up ever since GW3, when alliances started signing treaties with everyone and their mothers. Many alliances seem to want to have their proverbial treaty cake and eat it too; that is, they want the game to be exciting, but at the same time they also want to be 100% safe, which they accomplish via treaties with various alliances across the web. These two things do not go together.

On an unrelated note, be sure to remember that everything Penkala says in these sorts of discussions is totally disingenuous and 100% geared towards getting himself attention.

There's some exaggeration of how bad Continuum was going on in these comments. Continuum never once rolled anyone for public disagreement; I think Initiative might have seriously threatened that a couple of times, and FAN maybe even did it.

Ahh, the great evil of the New Hegemony which supposedly blindly follows each other into it's own whimsical, and albeit not very funny jokes. If only that was so.

Anyone with "two brain cells to rub together", to borrow your turn of phrase, can deduce that Xiphosis, GOD, and Krono's came out of this one in worse shape than when they went in. Although MK is not known for stern talks with it's allies or restraint, there are others that eventually stack up on his side of the treaty web that undoubtedly harbor no loving feelings towards him.

Even with the current state of affairs, with the world essentially split into CnG-SF with their entanglements, and what remains of Ex-Hegemony, the world has improved since Karma. Most of the comments I make would have, in pre-Karma days, landed me on someone's ZI list or EZI list, and prohibit me from even playing the game.

Most of the comments I make would have, in pre-Karma days, landed me on someone's ZI list or EZI list, and prohibit me from even playing the game.

This is an exaggeration to a staggering extent.