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Morality and the Wile E. Coyote Effect


Vladimir

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Over the past few weeks a number of alliances within the New Hegemony have become increasingly self-aware and confident, believing that they can act with impunity thanks to the power-base sitting under them. The result has been an undeniable and boisterous break with many of the alliances that raised them into that position to begin with, as they explicitly contradict and even mock the beliefs they used to propagate. Every political break coincides with an equally fierce intellectual break, and this case is no different, as the question of morality in global politics is once again propelled into the spotlight. On one side of this debate we have GOONS, \m/ and the Mushroom Kingdom, among others, (hereafter referred to as Unjust Path 2.0) arguing that morality has no place in the world, while on the other we have those arguing that our activities should be considered through a moral lens as well as one of immediate self-interest. It is through this intellectual debate that Unjust Path 2.0 has demonstrated its lack of political understanding.

The position of Unjust Path 2.0 is well summed up by GOONS member Alonois, who asserts that "People TALK of morality. They do not ACT upon it." One is tempted to suggest that this is at least superficially true -- after all, nobody has stepped up to end the Red Safari. However, one is only so tempted because moral activity is so ingrained in all of us that it is taken for granted. We can thus take a simple example: the question of war. There has never [or if there has, extraordinarily rarely] been a significant war without a casus belli, strong or weak, and this is precisely because it is known that if one doesn't have a casus belli there will be serious political consequences, ranging from a severe loss of political capital to a declaration of war in defence of the attacked alliance. Moreover, if a casus belli is to be accepted then it must be accepted as having a moral legitimacy by the significant alliances of the world, and this is the very basis of debates on what constitutes a strong and what constitutes a weak casus belli -- one cannot get away with a casus belli over the colour of an enemy's hair, for example, precisely because such a reason has no moral legitimacy. We can go beyond this and question the moral consequences of everything from OOC attacks, to spying, to perma-ZI lists, to honouring treaties, to diplomatic norms and beyond. It is this plethora of social norms and rules that makes up the moral fabric of our world, usually without us even realising it.

It must be understood, however, that all these moral norms and rules are social constructs -- they do not exist in the abstract, but rather because they are supported (actively or passively) in the international arena by enough power that violating them becomes politically unwise. Given this, the consequences for violating the world's moral fabric, if you cannot convince the world of your case, goes beyond whether or not there is an immediate military reaction and into the far deeper questions of political support -- for this too is nothing more than a social construct.

Alliances enter into treaties and blocs because they see these things as representing their interests, and their interests in turn are merely a representation of their view of the ideal world -- whether military dictatorship or free-thinking utopia -- and their view of the ideal world is in turn merely an extension of their internal culture and morality. Thus, a violation of widely held moral concerns may not bring about immediate military repercussions, but it will nevertheless undermine the idea that alliance interests are advanced through affiliation to the violators, and thus significantly weaken the political ties that act to prevent military repercussions.

In the long run it is this process that leads to the hollowing out of hegemonies and ultimately to great wars. Alliances begin to view their interests as being in contradiction to the standing hegemony, and consequently seek out new vehicles and movements -- a new serious of treaties and blocs -- to advance themselves through. It was ignorance of this fact that led to the rapid destruction of the first Unjust Path and in part to the downfall of the Continuum. While Unjust Path 2.0 may be on much more stable ground at the moment, if they choose to believe that morality has no place in the world, and that talk is cheap, then they will quickly find themselves headed for a Wile E Coyote moment, where the political support that they depend on no longer supports the weight of their actions.

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I agree on a lot of these points. But I would also point out that the non moral actions of what you call the "new hegemony" (which some would argue doesn't exist) mirror those of the real hegemony (1V, Initiative) before the Karma War. It is all a matter of perspective. The group in power is going to do whatever needs to be done to stay in control with itself on top. Is it right? NO. Is it what is happening? Yes. I only regret that not all of the Karma alliances choose to keep the ideals they had during the war.

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the first few paragraphs were awful. I mean a Pacifican member lecturing us on how to be moral. pfff come on... It's even more hypocritical that you first condemn ex-Heg alliances for changing their mind about their former policies and then decide to act as if the NPO has now become a champion of moralism post-Karma.

However, I pushed my self to read on through the crap and the last paragraph is extremely true. If you would have just posted that I would have given you a hail.

Why people begin leave after the powers that be start abusing power though is because they are afraid they could be next. It's kind of like the famed quote by Pastor Martin Niemöller. They are afraid they may be next and no one will stand up for them.

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Snibbmaster and Omniscient, you are correct that the Continuum made many mistakes along the way, and many lessons were learnt by those of us at the heart of it -- this being one of them. This article is not meant to be a lecture, or even a normative suggestion that people should act more 'morally'. Rather, it is meant to be an analysis of the practical place of morality in the world -- a simple description of how things work (like most of my articles).

Glad you enjoyed it, xoindotnler. Ice packs are in the freezer.

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First off, it's the Unjust Path 2.0.

Second, the quote you cherry picked from Alonois just happens to fit nicely into the point you're making, but you are painting with very broad strokes to suggest that this is the single viewpoint of all the alliances you speak of.

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well I am glad you have taken a neutral view point on most of your issues. Otherwise you'd have a lot of people disagreeing :P

Ktarthan does make a point. Not to mention alliances like GOONS have a history of radical activity and thinking, and frankly im not sure this completely fits the opinion of all the alliances "in control".

EDIT: to add second point

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You are quite right on the typo, ktarthan. Oddly enough I got it right in the final paragraph. In any case, I have corrected it throughout; thank you.

I chose Alonois' quote because it typifies in a single line the attitude taken in the Red Safari thread (both explicitly and implicitly) -- morality is irrelevant and ultimately can be ignored. Of course, there will be nuances here and there, and some will hold a completely different opinion, but that is besides the point and the simple price of political commentary. I expect the opinion put forth in this article is new to most if not all of them.

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So correct me if i am wrong, as my alliance has nothing to do with this, but isn't the Red Safari funded and assisted by a number of non aligned alliances? True the C&G are turning their heads, but then again the goal of the C&G is not to intervene in international affairs not concerning them right?

Also if the NPO is concerned, what aren't they more active in Red Dawn now?

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Of the three alliances I mentioned, MK is in C&G (and is arguably the most influential C&G/SF alliance), and GOONS and \m/ are linked directly to these blocs through MDoAPs.

The NPO is active in Red Dawn -- it was Red Dawn that posted the statement in the OWF.

However, I would rather not turn this into a discussion on the Red Safari incident itself (for which there is a 50+ page thread).

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I see, thank you for clarifying that. However, you can't blame the whole for the actions of the few. Although I do agree that they could be making a bigger fuss about MKs actions, that is politics for you.

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Oh hey. Some one picked a random quote and ignored the rest of what I was saying, that the current existing efforts towards a "more moral world" are token efforts at best and see-through grabs at reputation at worse. Honoring a treaty is hardly a moral action. You honor a treaty because in turn it will be honored. A gun dealer isn't any more moral if he delivers weapons for money instead of just taking the money. Casus belli exist as nothing more but vague justifications. You could argue they prevent wars springing up all over the place and may have been implemented as a means to make a moral world as opposed to simply self protection, but of course I remember a recent-sh casus belli that could be summed as "they probably would have attacked us" that was supported just fine by non-"UNJUST PATH" alliances. This implies a moral reason is not necessary just a reason of some sort, meaning casus belli exist to protect those who are strong enough to be involved in them from the random wars that tear them apart. It's more akin to two giants not killing each other for no reason.

Spying is akin to being attacked. Is spying immoral however? I'd say more spying falls under "dishonor" and honor is not the same as morality. Honor and morality are two different things (and I plan to write on honor at some point), but it is false to say that honor and morality are the same.

As for political support, ex-Unjust Path will never have support from ex-Hegemony. It is not about morality. It never has been, it never will be. This is very clear by statements made by ex-Hegemony members in support of rogues attacking ex-Unjust Path. The kinds of people otherwise made to be villains by ex-Hegemony. Morality is nothing more than rhetoric.

PS: It's Alonois. I'm not a greek pretty boy. And I was never aware I was "at the head" of some sort of movement. I have colluded with no one, these are and always have been my views. I am a very pragmatic person in regards to Bob. Morality is secondary to the interests of my alliance to me and self-interests. This is because the world is not moral, and to be moral is to weaken myself and invite destruction.

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My apologies about the name. I had it right originally, and thus choose to blame a spell-checker for changing it somewhere along the way. I have corrected the error.

You seem to be under the impression that we can only consider something to be about morality if it is against our self-interests. On the contrary, morality exists precisely because of our self-interests -- they are an articulation, internalisation and usually universalisation of them. This is the central point to my post. Thus you can explain away things as having a justification based on self-interest, but this is to completely miss the point.

Of course, morality can be used as a cloak to hide one's true motivations and intentions, and this was undoubtedly the case with many Karma alliances (as is becoming apparent and as I note in many of my previous blog entries); however, this does not justify ignoring the concept altogether.

As to the final two points, I wasn't discussing "ex-Hegemony" alliances, and I never suggested that you were "at the head" of anything (if you're going to use quotation marks you should really be quoting something). The quote I used was merely the most concise example of the prevailing mood.

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Morality can be self interested and I never said it was. But just because you occasionally do moral actions when acting out of self interest does not make you a moral person. I have not denigrated the quality or value of morality, simply stated it does not reign and ultimately has no effect on the politics of Bob. I do not personally find it valuable since Bob is amoral. Survival is my first and foremost concern, and the concern of any who do not see themselves as martyrs. Action is required for morality to exist, not words.

I'd call you out for editing, but I don't have the original page open so I'll presume I've got an early case of senility and/or dementia.

My comments about hegemony and karma and so on are about your statements that they will "lose support" but the issue is that the camps exist and are rather firm. The one has never had support from the other and short of significant changes in one government or the other never will. Nothing is to be lost in terms of support. The only way to eliminate one side is to take aggressive action, but few seem to be willing to suffer a little to enact their beliefs. People are comfortable where they are.

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To be honest, I actually agree with Vlad. If you really don't think morality has any impact on politics then you are either oblivious or you don't really have a firm grasp of what morals actually represent and are probably working off of skewed definition. A specific moral code and morality as a general construct are not the same thing.

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You talk of morality, but you fail to define morality. Therefore we cannot proceed with a meaningful debate. You speak of general social constructs that you consider morality, but there is no specificity, nor is there any underlying basis on which this "moral" code rests.

And although certain alliances appear to be more bold, I am quite certain that \m/ and GOONS never touted anti-raiding ideals as a moral cause.

Additionally, wouldn't the new hegemony(Karma) be fulfilling their design by challenging the last vestige of NPO domination over red?

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And of course morality is all about perspective. saying that something isn't moral is from your perspective only.

Well there can be an objective moral code with proper underlying basis, but he has provided none, so at the moment it is just his own undefined opinions.

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I don't have time to answer everything at the moment (I will endeavour to do so tomorrow), but I never claimed that there was a single objective morality. In fact I said exactly the opposite -- that it is relative according to perspective. That morality isn't simply an abstract absolute is quite an important premise for my argument.

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I can only interpret that to mean that you don't believe this to be my position. I'm not sure why since it is fairly clear in both this article and in previous articles that I have written. Indeed, the very first two sentences in the very first article in this blog, written nearly two years ago, read:

"There was recently a short debate on the place of morality in the international sphere where I argued that morality was unique to each individual alliance, a result of their particular socio-political system and place in the world. In other words, ones morality is derived from their perspective, with the salient cause being their choice of alliance."

While the second sentence in the second paragraph reads:

"Moralities are not abstract feel-good things, they have very real and practical political consequences."

Meanwhile this article reads:

"It must be understood, however, that all these moral norms and rules are social constructs"

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I don't have time to answer everything at the moment (I will endeavour to do so tomorrow), but I never claimed that there was a single objective morality. In fact I said exactly the opposite -- that it is relative according to perspective. That morality isn't simply an abstract absolute is quite an important premise for my argument.

The problem is that to demonstrate that objective truth and objective ethics exist, you need to resort to real life arguments. I would be quite prepared to demonstrate the existence of objective truth to you, but questions of metaphysics and the existence of God simply don’t belong in the politics of an internet nation game.

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The problem is that to demonstrate that objective truth and objective ethics exist, you need to resort to real life arguments. I would be quite prepared to demonstrate the existence of objective truth to you, but questions of metaphysics and the existence of God simply don’t belong in the politics of an internet nation game.

Not true good sir.

Objective truth and ethics based on the rules of CN (the actual limitations of the game, and the presence of Mods and Admin) could be the basis for an in game ethical pattern, and there are things that are objectively true of all nations. This may not encompass all of the nuances of politics, but there is and objective basis for some things based on the very nature of the game world.

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You have no idea how much I've pondered this same subject; how the practices of "good morals" and "realpolitick" in CN has affected the course of history. Though most nation rulers seem to consider either one or the other in determining their actions and opinions, neither realistically seems to guide the courses of alliances single-handedly, but rather they seem to share influence in the political decisions of every alliance leader, though that seems to contradict what I suggested earlier, in that each individual considers either one or the other to be important. Could it be, rather, that power corrupts, and moral appeal is a subconscious tool of the weaker entities in CN, who need the moral outrage to justify their attempts to bring down the stronger alliances? After all, most of the Vox Populi posters two years ago were heavily "moralist," but each of them had a political reason to oppose the continued reign of the Continuum.

Vladimir, which of the two motivational forces in CN (politics and moralism) has most guided the history of the game, and is either ultimately the dominant force? are they both legitimate, or is it possible moralism is just a means of political gain, utilizing the subliminal political agendas of each individual?

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Not true good sir.

Objective truth and ethics based on the rules of CN (the actual limitations of the game, and the presence of Mods and Admin) could be the basis for an in game ethical pattern, and there are things that are objectively true of all nations. This may not encompass all of the nuances of politics, but there is and objective basis for some things based on the very nature of the game world.

Admin is not a deity, and the terms of service are not an ethical framework.

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