Eurasian Intelligence Report

[Monty of the Herm]

Now, imagine a scenario where you had a good fight, had fun in a war and came out of it 1 day ago, still under a nuclear anarchy. You are hoping to rebuild and have another good war/fight. Instead some alliance attacks you and over 5 days, a few of you survive it. Then another alliance attacks you as soon as you are out of your 2nd war, this time bill-locks you or ZIs you with no money to spare. That effectively leaves you no option but to reroll, or at best, lose interest in the round. Now, if that happened to every alliance around, soon you will be only left with 20-30 playing nations by the end of the round with a huge edge over those who decided to reroll. The next age on, no one would care about alliances, as being in an alliance wouldn't matter, it can't protect you anyways.

 

And that's the utter hilarity I find in all these people trying to claim the moral high ground with their "gentlemen's agreements" or whatever. On one hand you claim that due to a "gentleman's agreement" in TE we're the big bad ebil for violating this "gentlemen's agreement", but at the same time I've been driven from the game when in smaller AAs in TE because I refused to play along with larger AA's raiding tactics and they rolled my nation into oblivion without showing me any mercy. The same AAs mind you who are trying to claim the moral high ground in this instance.

[RoadRash]

This is painfully retarded. Why, exactly, is there a community rule that if someone declares a war you decide is a "dogpile," that every other alliance is obligated to dogpile them? Isn't that, y'know, hypocrisy?

thats called society … set aside your differences for the betterment of planet steve ….

like i said earlier we will not allow the “might makes right” dictate planet steve

 

 

 

And that's the utter hilarity I find in all these people trying to claim the moral high ground with their "gentlemen's agreements" or whatever. On one hand you claim that due to a "gentleman's agreement" in TE we're the big bad ebil for violating this "gentlemen's agreement", but at the same time I've been driven from the game when in smaller AAs in TE because I refused to play along with larger AA's raiding tactics and they rolled my nation into oblivion without showing me any mercy. The same AAs mind you who are trying to claim the moral high ground in this instance.

 

again i am personally sorry for your past experience but like i said earlier if you would have spoken up to the masses I’m sure it would have been fixed 

TE is a community that actually listens to each other ..

 

if you would have reached out on the big boards i would have personally stood with you to resolve your raiding issues …

 

again if you guys really believe it is right to hit weaker opponents then your kind will not last on steve…

[Monty of the Herm]

again i am personally sorry for your past experience but like i said earlier if you would have spoken up to the masses I’m sure it would have been fixed 

TE is a community that actually listens to each other ..

 

if you would have reached out on the big boards i would have personally stood with you to resolve your raiding issues …

 

again if you guys really believe it is right to hit weaker opponents then your kind will not last on steve…

 

I wasn't going to speak up at the time because I had other bigger responsibilities IC in SE which when I ran into that ridiculous treatment it wasn't worth my time to stick it out for the rest of the round in TE. We were trying to do something in TE on the side not get involved in the greater scope too much at the time, but their raiding policies wouldn't allow that. Now all I'm saying is you can't claim moral high ground when that's the policies the same AAs condone and endorse in terms of raiding smaller AAs who refuse to accept peace terms.

 

When you give no quarter to smaller AAs how can you claim the moral high ground over a larger AA who violates an unwritten rule in TE about grace periods between wars? You can't unless you change one of the general policies to align with the other one otherwise it's completely hypocritical and two-faced and hence why I've been so vocal about it the last few days here, because having two-faced policies that benefit a select few in a game is cancerous, and can easily drive newer players from the game.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Monty of the Herm

[Hoosier]

Yo

Only thing to save Eurasia is to over throw your leader Caladin, put a true leader who is brighter not so madd!  Someone who can make concessions and get your AA back to normal.  Caladin had his chance, we could share that he's been told and his remarks.  To embarassing, but I could copy and show Eurasia what he thinks of his AA (knill) and only his self pride in what he considers a defeat.

 

Once a new owner appears we will consider talks and get the rest of Eurasia up to fight tough better in TE.  Caladin is dead to us!

[Ahmad alMansur]

Yo

Only thing to save Eurasia is to over throw your leader Caladin, put a true leader who is brighter not so madd!  Someone who can make concessions and get your AA back to normal.  Caladin had his chance, we could share that he's been told and his remarks.  To embarassing, but I could copy and show Eurasia what he thinks of his AA (knill) and only his self pride in what he considers a defeat.

 

Once a new owner appears we will consider talks and get the rest of Eurasia up to fight tough better in TE.  Caladin is dead to us!

 

GL to over throwing Cazaric TDO.  He is keeping you at war!

 

Lol, what is it with you and trying to instigate coups this round :P

[Neo Uruk]

thats called society … set aside your differences for the betterment of planet steve ….
like i said earlier we will not allow the “might makes right” dictate planet steve

Except that's exactly what you're doing here. If it isn't "might makes right" dictating Planet Steve, why were we immediately dogpiled for something we didn't know was a rule?

[kongland]

Except that's exactly what you're doing here. If it isn't "might makes right" dictating Planet Steve, why were we immediately dogpiled for something we didn't know was a rule?

If even you didn't know, you've been told straight away it's wrong. Instead of fixing the situation, your Leader Caladin decided to proceed anyway. There is no united hypocritical mafia in TE, as a matter of fact it's divided in a few groups with a different approach and those groups would fight a lot sometimes to sort out their differences. Thats exactly where some common ground had been worked out - like what is fair in declaring wars. Variation in estimates is huge if you go from one old alliance to another, but what you did is definitely a NO-NO and you've been politely pointed out it was definitely wrong. If somebody from TE in some way does condone you - it's only due to some political games. Any serious established TE alliance know you did the wrong deed.

You're a new gang, who just barged in and decided to install your own rules and in response to the counters you just trying to bring in more muscle power. You're transferring your SE habits and some primitive knowledge of TE to the TE affairs and you are going to fail. TE is a completely different animal.

You are complaining about dogpile? It's the same like a criminal would complain about a few policemen tackling him.

You've decided to ignore a friendly advice, now pay the consequencies. As I said before - in any case, TE would lose yet again because of your lack of the common sense.

The inability to admit a mistake is not a sign of the maturity in your government. Seen that, been there. You came and you'll disappear in a round-two as a power, even if you don't see it yet, unless you  change your approach.

 

That's another free advice of mine.

Edited July 4, 2015 by kongland

[Sir Kiloist]

I sense a few solutions:

 

1) Dogpile them the beginning of next round

2) Do the same to them next round that they have done this round

3) Let bygones be bygones and assume they won't do this again

4) Do what they did this round in this round in a few weeks. 

 

I mean let's stop barking and actually bite? Other than that, I know these people pretty well in SE and know they wouldn't do this in SE because...well history. So I'm going to assume they know they are in the wrong and not do it again

Edited July 5, 2015 by Sir Kiloist

[Neo Uruk]

If even you didn't know, you've been told straight away it's wrong. Instead of fixing the situation, your Leader Caladin decided to proceed anyway.

Yeah, we had so much time to fix the situation before a bunch of mongoloids jumped on us.

[dogbite]

In TE most times all you have to do is ask for peace and you will get it. No harm in learning the game the hard way.

[Monty of the Herm]

Yo

Only thing to save Eurasia is to over throw your leader Caladin, put a true leader who is brighter not so madd!  Someone who can make concessions and get your AA back to normal.  Caladin had his chance, we could share that he's been told and his remarks.  To embarassing, but I could copy and show Eurasia what he thinks of his AA (knill) and only his self pride in what he considers a defeat.

 

Once a new owner appears we will consider talks and get the rest of Eurasia up to fight tough better in TE.  Caladin is dead to us!

 

That's not happening. It's pretty funny how you keep trying to create dissension in an entity you do not know. Shows your fear of the unknown more than anything else.

[Blacklight]

In TE most times all you have to do is ask for peace and you will get it. No harm in learning the game the hard way.

 

Twice now I have checked this thread and misread "dogpile" as "dogbite" and each time I wonder why everyone is picking on you lol

[hadesflames]

Yeah, we had so much time to fix the situation before a bunch of mongoloids jumped on us.

1 - You had a little over 24 hours. It doesn't take that long to say "Oh crap, I guess we screwed up." and ask for peace.
2 - Your leader acknowledged it was a down declare in the OP of the war declaration, so you were CLEARLY aware you were being ass holes from the very start, despite whatever crap you lot want to spew out here now.
3 - After the fact, not only your leader but a bunch of other members stated "what's done is done, only thing to do now is carry on with the war!" after it was clearly spelled out for you that you were well in the wrong.

So, all that said, you could have had 24 hours, or an entire bleeding week. It wouldn't have mattered. So, why are you pretending like time-frame was any where near an issue? Don't insult our intelligence. Edited July 5, 2015 by hadesflames

[Caladin]

2 - Your leader acknowledged it was a down declare in the OP of the war declaration, so you were CLEARLY aware you were being ass holes from the very start, despite whatever crap you lot want to spew out here now.

 

I fear you have misunderstood the statements I have made. I maintain that Eurasia's declaration of war was not a down declare and to this end I wish to present some statistics, produced from data gathered at the start of this war. It ommits all Eurasian nations who did not intend to fight in the conflict. Many now are fighting, but that was only due to the actions of DEFCON and RE.

 

New Desolate Order

 

Nations

23

Technology

11,093.15

Infrastructure

68,435.04

Nuclear Weapons

19

Total NS

383,686.70

Average NS

16,682.03

 

 

Eurasia

 

Nations

19

Technology

4051.84

Infrastructure

67,998.74

Nuclear Weapons

69

Total NS

315,655.34

Average NS

16,613.43

 

I'm not sure, but I'm reasonably certain that that is not a down declare.

 

For those curious, the stats of the current war.

[spoiler]

NDO + RE + DEFCON

Nations - 73

Technology - 28,095.93

Infrastructure - 212,184.4

NS - 1,077,155

Average NS - 16,124.86

Nukes - 182

 

Eurasia

Nations - 68

Technology - 8550.87

Infrastructure - 101,737.4

NS - 436,667.7

Average NS - 6421.58

Nukes - 50

[/spoiler]

[Ahmad alMansur]

 

I fear you have misunderstood the statements I have made. I maintain that Eurasia's declaration of war was not a down declare and to this end I wish to present some statistics, produced from data gathered at the start of this war. It ommits all Eurasian nations who did not intend to fight in the conflict. Many now are fighting, but that was only due to the actions of DEFCON and RE.

 

New Desolate Order

 

Nations

23

Technology

11,093.15

Infrastructure

68,435.04

Nuclear Weapons

19

Total NS

383,686.70

Average NS

16,682.03

 

 

Eurasia

 

Nations

19

Technology

4051.84

Infrastructure

67,998.74

Nuclear Weapons

69

Total NS

315,655.34

Average NS

16,613.43

 

I'm not sure, but I'm reasonably certain that that is not a down declare.

 

For those curious, the stats of the current war.

[spoiler]

NDO + RE + DEFCON

Nations - 73

Technology - 28,095.93

Infrastructure - 212,184.4

NS - 1,077,155

Average NS - 16,124.86

Nukes - 182

 

Eurasia

Nations - 68

Technology - 8550.87

Infrastructure - 101,737.4

NS - 436,667.7

Average NS - 6421.58

Nukes - 50

[/spoiler]

Could've posted this at the start. Not that it would've changed the uproar, but I like stats :P

[Monty of the Herm]

And the truth comes out. The hegemony doesn't like being encroached upon so they have to bully the new kids on the block. Good to know have fun with that because we sure will. At least now your moralism is proven to be nothing but fear and paranoia of the unknown.

[Neo Uruk]

1 - You had a little over 24 hours. It doesn't take that long to say "Oh crap, I guess we screwed up." and ask for peace.

lol.

2 - Your leader acknowledged it was a down declare in the OP of the war declaration, so you were CLEARLY aware you were being ass holes from the very start, despite whatever crap you lot want to spew out here now.

No, in the OP of the war declaration, Caladin acknowledged that it appeared to be a down-declare because of surface stats, then pointed out why it was not.

3 - After the fact, not only your leader but a bunch of other members stated "what's done is done, only thing to do now is carry on with the war!" after it was clearly spelled out for you that you were well in the wrong.

Who cares? That has no effect on the fact that you guys are circlejerking about how righteous you are while doing the same damn thing you're parading against and put no effort into actually helping us reach the conclusion that the "community agreement" says.

So, all that said, you could have had 24 hours, or an entire bleeding week. It wouldn't have mattered. So, why are you pretending like time-frame was any where near an issue? Don't insult our intelligence.

Because, in that 24 hours, how much was done to give us a real warning? How much was done to try and convince us that what we were doing was wrong? Nothing was done, you lot just want to feel good about yourselves despite doing far worse.

[kongland]

A possibility to come to a mutual conclusion/agreement is only possible if both sides discussing it  are at the comparable level of intelligence in a certain proximity range to each other. Reading the all above I give up and there is no other way but just a brutal and senseless bashing. No offence meant, really.. just a fact of life I guess.

[Letum]

A possibility to come to a mutual conclusion/agreement is only possible if both sides discussing it  are at the comparable level of intelligence in a certain proximity range to each other. Reading the all above I give up and there is no other way but just a brutal and senseless bashing. No offence meant, really.. just a fact of life I guess.

"You are all dumb, no offense"

A *very* mature debate tactic.

[RoadRash]

A possibility to come to a mutual conclusion/agreement is only possible if both sides discussing it  are at the comparable level of intelligence in a certain proximity range to each other. Reading the all above I give up and there is no other way but just a brutal and senseless bashing. No offence meant, really.. just a fact of life I guess.

i to give up here … i guess I’m dumb to  :wacko:

[Monty of the Herm]

A possibility to come to a mutual conclusion/agreement is only possible if both sides discussing it  are at the comparable level of intelligence in a certain proximity range to each other. Reading the all above I give up and there is no other way but just a brutal and senseless bashing. No offence meant, really.. just a fact of life I guess.

 

 

i to give up here … i guess I’m dumb to  :wacko:

 

And that's the problem. Simply because we joined TE this round and stirred the pot a bit by apparently violating unwritten agreements most of us were completely oblivious to and then we bring up real issues in TE which are far worse than what we did all that people do is quit the discussion because they can't handle the fact that the real issues that need to be dealt with aren't what we've done so far in this round and would upset the power structure within Steve. Or at the very least make people take off the facade of moralism they've been trying to beat us over the head with.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Monty of the Herm

[RoadRash]

MotH you keep saying the power issue ….. there is no Power issue her no one person or alliance has any more say then any other …

even thought we are all in different alliances we all seem to work together for the “fun” of the game 

 

when you guys see that i think you will really enjoy it here 

there is no clear cut power house and if one does come about like say Avengers we try and pull together and beat them at there game 

they clearly where the best alliance in the last 3 rounds and they made TE pull together to try and best them .. it was fun … but not once did they get cocky or even try to run it in anyones face the adjusted and kicked ass ……….

 

i think you guys could be that next thing but your choice in playing this game the way you are is just down right wrong ….

 

I’m tired trying to debate the issues i don’t see this war ending soon so we will see what happens and hope for the best 

 

i do see admin leaving the 100 mil start up because it has definitely stepped up this round  i love the influx of nations and this drama had made me more active then i have been in awhile on the big boards

Edited July 6, 2015 by greco

[hadesflames]

In reply to Caladin the stats of those 19 nations you *claimed* would be the only ones fighting paint a different picture than what was reality. EVEN IF you had maintained your promise of only letting a handful of your nations engage us, you still continue to skirt around the issue that we were only THREE DAYS fresh out of war. We were given absolutely no time to rebuild AT ALL. You may as well have declared with all of your nations, wouldn't have done any difference. Add on to that the fact that your special 19 nations had FIFTY more nukes than us, and your pretty picture of a fair and even fight goes up in smoke.

 

As for Neo Uruk, you continue to say that we (which includes the NDO) are trying to uphold some sort of agreement that we ourselves don't follow. Instead of putting words in our mouths, you should look to our actions. We declared on TPC this round, and it was considered for the most part to be an updeclare. We had nukes when we declared and TPC did not. We agreed we would not use any nukes at all, unless it was in retaliation. A promise that we kept. If you're going to say we don't stay true to our word, and don't follow the honor that we preach, post some damn proof. Neither D1's nor RE's actions at the start of the round can be used to excuse your actions against us, in ANY WAY.

[Terekhov]

...you continue to say that we (which includes the NDO) are trying to uphold some sort of agreement that we ourselves don't follow. Instead of putting words in our mouths, you should look to our actions. We declared on TPC this round, and it was considered for the most part to be an updeclare. We had nukes when we declared and TPC did not. We agreed we would not use any nukes at all, unless it was in retaliation. A promise that we kept. If you're going to say we don't stay true to our word, and don't follow the honor that we preach, post some damn proof. Neither D1's nor RE's actions at the start of the round can be used to excuse your actions against us, in ANY WAY.

Agreed on both points. I personally wouldn't include you in the group whose 'moral stance' and actions are different, from what I have learned/observed. Second, their actions vis-à-vis Eurasia seem to have little relation to NDO aside from using the events between our alliances to their advantage / to make a point. Edited July 6, 2015 by Terekhov

[Monty of the Herm]

MotH you keep saying the power issue ….. there is no Power issue her no one person or alliance has any more say then any other …

even thought we are all in different alliances we all seem to work together for the “fun” of the game 

 

when you guys see that i think you will really enjoy it here 

there is no clear cut power house and if one does come about like say Avengers we try and pull together and beat them at there game 

they clearly where the best alliance in the last 3 rounds and they made TE pull together to try and best them .. it was fun … but not once did they get cocky or even try to run it in anyones face the adjusted and kicked ass ……….

 

i think you guys could be that next thing but your choice in playing this game the way you are is just down right wrong ….

 

I’m tired trying to debate the issues i don’t see this war ending soon so we will see what happens and hope for the best 

 

i do see admin leaving the 100 mil start up because it has definitely stepped up this round  i love the influx of nations and this drama had made me more active then i have been in awhile on the big boards

 

I keep referencing it in terms of a power issue because we keep being told we're violating an unwritten agreement between a few preexisting AAs in TE which we're being told we have to abide by as well. That's a powerbase dictating how another entity in the game has to play or they get crushed, I'm simply pointing out how the power base's agreement is utterly hypocritical to other condoned practices by the same power base, and all I'm trying to get them to do is either change their other practices to reflect their agreements among themselves or to just play as the beasts they all are with no veneer of morality.

 

As it just so happens NDO ended up being in the middle of the entire mess/debate, I have nothing against NDO specifically I have too short a history here for that, and I only have really one real beef with a specific AA within the powerbase dictating to us now personally from my previous experience a few rounds ago.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Monty of the Herm