Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296445950' post='2611989'] Pardon the assumption I guess, but assuming the NPO is evil is as safe an assumption as assuming the sun is going to rise in the morning. I guess you're trying to cover for it in this thread where you're trying to play some near-OOC morality card. NPO has never made it a secret that they want to have a crushing domination over the game, strangling the life out of it. We will not let you do that. That's also the part of your original post I don't get. We're not attacking for no reason, there is nothing immoral about this. We are attacking you because you are NPO. We don't want you ruining everyone else's fun. [/quote] Us? Strangling the life out of Bob? I tell you now there are fewer nations now than since the new great powers came to reign. Most have been consolidated under the oppression of the new Hegemony. We were growing peacefully and quickly. We were attacked for it. It is that kind of mindless belligerence which is the primary incarnation of the forces driving nations into extinction. That force is the evil of greed and the abuse of power. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296444366' post='2611948'] No amount of arguing will build faith or a faith. It requires the individual to search out for the meaning of his creation and life in order to find it. That said, nothing I say to you will be adequate to your needs. I would suggest reading a bible. Others would suggest different ideas.. all the same, it is up for you to seek your answers and to come to the truth. Your statement that the majority of population of Bob do not believe in God or gods is wrong. If you check basic statistics of the world of Bob you will see there is not an even distribution of faiths held by any nation. This is not coincidental. People do not select faiths at random. In this statement you are totally wrong and it [i]CAN[/i] be proven via basic demographics. edit: Rephrased to be more IC. [/quote] Most nation rulers, in their benevolence, allow their people to choose the religion of the state, in the hope that this will make them happier, which equals more revenue. This doesn't mean that most nation rulers subscribe to those beliefs. As for the rest of your ad hominem attacks, as quiz and I have already pointed out, I am a Christian. In fact, I read the Bible every day! So I'll ask you once again: please provide one logical argument for the existence of objective morality. I'm prepared to listen. Once we've settled that, we can move onto what exactly that morality entails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296446312' post='2611995'] Most religions would see those who defend persons who have been aggressed against without proper cause as a noble entity. [/quote] Then why didn't you attack the GOONS nations who were hitting the same red nation I was hitting? Where's your nobility!? (OOC) Please stop with using religion to back up your arguments. This is an online game. I'm sure God's more interested in peace in the middle east than in giving his blessing to the New Pacific Order. (/OOC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296445244' post='2611972'] You are not "free" to commit acts of aggression against your peers for no other reason than profit. It's an act of evil. [/quote] Yes we are. We earned that freedom and the NPO clearly seeks to curtail it once more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1296446323' post='2611996'] If we are to use religion as a means to justify our arguments then I hope you don't mind if I do the same? Tlentifinni Maarhaysu is the holy text of the Bumcivilian religion(the most prominent religion within the nation of Anubia) According to Tlentifinni Maarhaysu there is no good or evil, and to create and abide by such concepts is not morally wrong, but objectively wrong. When a situation arises involving somebody describing an action as good or evil it is certain that the person engaging in such behavior is simply using their own moral guidelines as a means to justify their actions or denounce the actions of others. Morals are merely a tool with which to make ourselves feel better and righteous dependent on what path we take. This scenario is described by the holy book as 'The Helvetica Scenario' Adherents to the Bumcivilianist way believe that there is no sense in masking our actions with a veil of moralist lies for eventually we will be revealed as hypocrites. For all people who believe themselves to be morally righteous will inevitably participate in something that their holy scripture dictates as immoral. Instead of acknowledging this, they will twist their so-called holy text and the morals which it espouses to once again justify their actions. So instead of this, we Bumcivilians will justify our actions with empirical truths and will not engage in the circular logic of moralism. For if we do, we inevitably will find ourselves in a state of cognitive dissonance. On that note, I must leave and pray to our deity; Tarvu. I trust you will all join me. Tarvu tarvooti, Oboonoo cTooti, Mimmin O'tibbi noonah, Mdfitty fitty noonah, Arvu immentiBarvu, O' Tarvu. [/quote] My appeal was a to a majority of most faiths and most religious doctrines. Of course there will be those that differ. There is no cognitive dissonance here. After all, MK worship Archon of late apparently and he's nothing but a pretender to the throne of God. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1296446644' post='2612008'] Yes we are. We earned that freedom and the NPO clearly seeks to curtail it once more. [/quote] The freedom to abuse others at your whim.. yup, definitely evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296446726' post='2612011'] Archon [is] nothing but a pretender to the throne of God. [/quote] ahahahahahahaha, that's superb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296446726' post='2612011'] My appeal was a to a majority of most faiths and most religious doctrines. Of course there will be those that differ. There is no cognitive dissonance here. After all, MK worship Archon of late apparently and he's nothing but a pretender to the throne of God. [/quote] Of course you say there is no cognitive dissonance, you are simply in denial. Tarvu knows this and has always known this, which is why you suffer his wrath. Until you accept Tarvu into your heart, your soul and mind will never be at peace. O' Tarvu. Edited January 31, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296446904' post='2612018'] ahahahahahahaha, that's superb [/quote] You didn't notice the MKer's earlier chanting "Alluarchon ahkbar?" Silly cultists. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296446526' post='2612003'] Us? Strangling the life out of Bob? I tell you now there are fewer nations now than since the new great powers came to reign. Most have been consolidated under the oppression of the new Hegemony. We were growing peacefully and quickly. We were attacked for it. It is that kind of mindless belligerence which is the primary incarnation of the forces driving nations into extinction. That force is the evil of greed and the abuse of power. [/quote] What does the number of nations have to do with anything? Having a larger amount of people on None doesn't really make up for years of forceful oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296447189' post='2612024'] What does the number of nations have to do with anything? Having a larger amount of people on None doesn't really make up for years of forceful oppression. [/quote] It means a lot, it means a great many more people are being oppressed and fewer are free. When a nation loses its identity another culture dies. The fact more have happened under the newer powers speak volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296447267' post='2612027'] It means a lot, it means a great many more people are being oppressed and fewer are free. When a nation loses its identity another culture dies. The fact more have happened under the newer powers speak volumes. [/quote] Haha, what? CN has been losing players since before I started playing 4 years ago. I also imagine a good number left after Karma, I know many of my friends quit because they had played long enough to see the destruction of the NPO. The "powers" whoever they are don't seem to be the main influence on the declining membership. You also have to understand that the current amount of nations is just one way of looking at it. Many nations are created and deleted every day. Our tracking system has seen over 13000 nations that no longer exist in the last few months alone. There is much more going on in terms of player attraction and retention than whatever the few thousand community-active people are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296445950' post='2611989'] We're not attacking for no reason, there is nothing immoral about this. We are attacking you because you are NPO. [/quote] To be persecuted because one is Pacifican: that is glorious. The holocaust you are striving to create shall not come to pass. Sorry to disappoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296447842' post='2612032'] Haha, what? CN has been losing players since before I started playing 4 years ago. I also imagine a good number left after Karma, I know many of my friends quit because they had played long enough to see the destruction of the NPO. The "powers" whoever they are don't seem to be the main influence on the declining membership. You also have to understand that the current amount of nations is just one way of looking at it. Many nations are created and deleted every day. Our tracking system has seen over 13000 nations that no longer exist in the last few months alone. There is much more going on in terms of player attraction and retention than whatever the few thousand community-active people are doing. [/quote] If those in power do not take stewardship of the world, then in that irresponsibility the world declines. Perhaps the latter that you have mentioned.. people not being active and not putting forth an effort to continue to keep leaders involved.. is part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296447998' post='2612034'] To be persecuted because one is Pacifican: that is glorious. The holocaust you are striving to create shall not come to pass. Sorry to disappoint. [/quote] Oh I assure you it will. As a prophet of the Bumcivilian Church I would like to inform you that if Tarvu wills it, it will come to pass. And he does, O' he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296447998' post='2612034'] To be persecuted because one is Pacifican: that is glorious. The holocaust you are striving to create shall not come to pass. Sorry to disappoint. [/quote] Well it's not really a holocaust, more like the execution of a war criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1296448291' post='2612040'] Oh I assure you it will. As a prophet of the Bumcivilian Church I would like to inform you that if Tarvu wills it, it will come to pass. And he does, O' he does. [/quote] As deranged as the Archon cultists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296448454' post='2612041'] Well it's not really a holocaust, more like the execution of a war criminal. [/quote] That same argument was used last war and we haven't done anything since 2009 that's been aggressive. You truly have no new material do you? I mean.. half the people in the Order weren't even here in 2009 at this point. Our judges decreed our punishment and we paid our restitution; even those of us not responsible for the more ancient crimes you speak of. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296448096' post='2612036'] If those in power do not take stewardship of the world, then in that irresponsibility the world declines. Perhaps the latter that you have mentioned.. people not being active and not putting forth an effort to continue to keep leaders involved.. is part of the problem. [/quote] Oh, it's so clear now! So we should go around crushing people who can't fight back, restricting the FA of alliances we don't like, and threatening and bullying people to get our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296448454' post='2612041'] Well it's not really a holocaust, [b]more like the execution of a war criminal.[/b] [/quote] After the war criminal has already paid for his/her crimes and was hit with "Guilty until proven Innocent" or "Convicted by accusation" rather than "Conviction by hard evidence". I wonder if your alliance practice that when it comes to pressing charges against accused members. [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296448680' post='2612046'] Oh, it's so clear now! So we should go around crushing people who can't fight back, restricting the FA of alliances we don't like, and threatening and bullying people to get our way. [/quote] For some reason, I have a feeling that is what you are exactly doing right now, unless if your CB against NPO was simply because you disliked them. Edited January 31, 2011 by HHAYD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296448486' post='2612042'] As deranged as the Archon cultists. [/quote] That kettle is black, black I say! At least I do not delude myself into think that I am morally right according to some pre-defined criteria. How sad that you would deny yourself free will because your God dictates such ludicrous ideals. To worship Tarvu is to be free, for with Tarvu every decision you make is the right decision(providing it is your decision and it is a decision that has not been dictated to you by outside influences) and he will be with you always. O' Tarvu Edited January 31, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1296448944' post='2612051'] That kettle is black, black I say! At least I do not delude myself into think that I am morally right according to some pre-defined criteria. How sad that you would deny yourself free will because your God dictates such ludicrous ideals. To worship Tarvu is to be free, for with Tarvu every decision you make is the right decision(providing it is your decision and it is a decision that has not been dictated to you by outside influences) and he will be with you always. O' Tarvu [/quote] My will is free. I may choose to disobey my God at any time. It just isn't in my best interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296449131' post='2612053'] My will is free. I may choose to disobey my God at any time. It just isn't in my best interest. [/quote] I just feel bad for you, really. Edited January 31, 2011 by threefingeredguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296449131' post='2612053'] My will is free. I may choose to disobey my God at any time. It just isn't in my best interest. [/quote] But for the time being it is in your best interest to obey him, correct? Eventually it will be in your best interest to disobey him and you will attempt to justify such behavior so that you may feel at peace. The problem of course is that you will not be truly at peace whilst you continue to lie to yourself. I feel you could learn a lot from reading Tlentifinni Maarhaysu, as I feel everyone could. As such I will begin publishing extracts from the holy book for all to read and so that you may all embrace Tarvu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1296449452' post='2612064'] But for the time being it is in your best interest to obey him, correct? Eventually it will be in your best interest to disobey him and you will attempt to justify such behavior so that you may feel at peace. The problem of course is that you will not be truly at peace whilst you continue to lie to yourself. I feel you could learn a lot from reading Tlentifinni Maarhaysu, as I feel everyone could. As such I will begin publishing extracts from the holy book for all to read and so that you may all embrace Tarvu. [/quote] It is never in my best interest to disobey Him. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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