KoH Recognition of Hostility with VE

[HeroofTime55]

Good work, KoH! Give 'em hell!

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296274947' post='2608532']
I already refuted your stance if you'd read and absorb what I said. In all honesty, the problem is not with VE as much as it is with the Protectorate. Still, I'd of expected a better reaction from VE...though I have to admit, after a years vacation, I find several alliances suprising me with their actions. And not necessarily in a good way.
[/quote]
No you didn't. You immediatly went for the DERP shot. If you would like, I could just say nou and we'd have ourselves a good ole bobian standoff.

[Britishdude]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1296274994' post='2608534']
Good work, KoH! Give 'em hell!
[/quote]

Thanks, and may I say that your avatar is epic!

[USMC123]

nvm

Edited January 29, 2011 by USMC123

[Strykewolf]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1296274836' post='2608528']
You're telling me you've never had a gov't member with no authority to make alliance decisions be wrong about an alliance policy?
[/quote]


Honestly? No. Military based alliance. Chain of command allows myself, or , my XO to make the call. That's it. We're small, and do not mind that. If I am unavailable, the XO is authorized to make the call and I will back it 100% publically. I may correct his misstep (if any) in private so it does not happen again, but...publically? No. The decision would stand.

There are a few standing orders, and policies. Those are well known within the alliance and will be acted upon by any member without reproach. Anything beyond that? That's mine, and the XOs job.

[Britishdude]

@usmc nvm my reply was to your nvm

Edited January 29, 2011 by Britishdude

[Frodark]

First off, no agreement was made with Misfit Nations as an alliance due to the fact that none of the people that had the power to make such agreement even knew about it until YOU told us that we made it. A minor member of gov that never had the power to make any statements got a bit confused. He was aware of the protocol, he just was not aware of our stance due to the fact that this convo happened between Hyrule and that member before we had a chance to assess if we cared to make such an agreement.(aka we were talking to our allies, but still on the fence)
We clarified the confusion days ago before VE came in. This is in the same discussion where you came asking for peace.

As for the being defeated and running to our protector, I have to say first as I said you came to us for peace, you just didnt like that we would stay on NpO and we respected you for that and fought on. We informed our protector that you were not stepping out and they offered to take some targets. Why turn them away from their fun? We then gave you notice so you could step out gracefully before VE decided to play.

Half of your alliance is broke, your nations are already sending peace offers to ours(your MoFA with whom this "agreement" was made has already surrendered), and with our WCs we can fuel this war for quite awhile longer. Where is the defeat in that?

Wars are for fun, but also to win. Why not bring what we can to the table, especially when its offered?

Instead of trying to play the martyr you should have accepted what was offered when you knew days ago that you were outmatched against Misfits both militarily and in terms of strength of friendships.

[Strykewolf]

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1296274886' post='2608530']
I'm glad you are on the other side. If you alliances hasn't even advanced enough to discover tiered government yet and you let anybody in your alliance dictate policy, I feel better about this war already.
[/quote]


Aaaahhhh, that's sweet. Really. We're not a tiered government alliance. We're a military unit. Have a nice day.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296275535' post='2608547']
Honestly? No. Military based alliance. Chain of command allows myself, or , my XO to make the call. That's it. We're small, and do not mind that. If I am unavailable, the XO is authorized to make the call and I will back it 100% publically. I may correct his misstep (if any) in private so it does not happen again, but...publically? No. The decision would stand.

There are a few standing orders, and policies. Those are well known within the alliance and will be acted upon by any member without reproach. Anything beyond that? That's mine, and the XOs job.
[/quote]

You're missing where this was a low level govt member... Not a #2 in command.

[maskofblue]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296275535' post='2608547']
Honestly? No. Military based alliance. Chain of command allows myself, or , my XO to make the call. That's it. We're small, and do not mind that. If I am unavailable, the XO is authorized to make the call and I will back it 100% publically. I may correct his misstep (if any) in private so it does not happen again, but...publically? No. The decision would stand.

There are a few standing orders, and policies. Those are well known within the alliance and will be acted upon by any member without reproach. Anything beyond that? That's mine, and the XOs job.
[/quote]
Well, mapping that to Misfits, Frodark and I would take your position, Callebaut would map to your XO. If someone lower in your alliance had made an alliance decision without consulting you, one you felt was detrimental to your alliance, you are honestly going to say you would run with it?

We gave KoH several days notice that Sho spoke out of turn, we further agreed to white peace with them, however, they backed out on it when we advised them that us declaring a mutual ceasefire would not alter our stance in the larger war. This thread is just a dishonest attempt to spin up some PR points before their inevitable disbandment and being forgotten.

[TheyCallMeJeezy]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1296274097' post='2608490']
That settles that. No lack of communication, just an alliance changing their policy (as is well within their right).
[/quote]

Oh...you bring up alliance rights? Did that thought enter the hollow space between your ears before or after you preemptively declared war out of fear? (which I understand is also well within your right)

You set the precedent.

[Strykewolf]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1296275800' post='2608560']
You're missing where this was a low level govt member... Not a #2 in command.
[/quote]


And you are missing the point I was trying to make about either having too large a gov, or one not well informed on protocol.

Mistakes happen. The low level gov member should be corrected. That said, the opponent was under the impression that the decision stood. How do you fix that? Moderate your response, throw the gov member under the bus, or escalate the situation?

[maskofblue]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296276030' post='2608588']
And you are missing the point I was trying to make about either having too large a gov, or one not well informed on protocol.

Mistakes happen. The low level gov member should be corrected. That said, the opponent was under the impression that the decision stood. How do you fix that? Moderate your response, throw the gov member under the bus, or escalate the situation?
[/quote]
How about advise them several days in advance of further action their "impression" was in error and gave the a way out of the war that would cost them nothing?

Edited January 29, 2011 by maskofblue

[erikjsch]

[quote name='Callebaut' timestamp='1296274775' post='2608525']
Honestly, the spin and fail in this thread is astounding.

Impero, who we had informed of the entire situation, and was well aware of what was going on, then joined the peace talks. Hyrule was given two days notice that VE would put Hyrulean nations in their target lists for the next rotation if peace was not agreed upon. Hyrule declined, and here we are today.

[/quote]

Lawl! Two days? We were given maybe 2 hours to decide this. Impero demanded that Britishdude stayed awake until we decided and told him before the following day, if we did not reply to him or surrender to you(Misfit Nations) then they would attack right away. I'd like to know where you pulled the two days out from.

[Frodark]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296276030' post='2608588']
And you are missing the point I was trying to make about either having too large a gov, or one not well informed on protocol.

Mistakes happen. The low level gov member should be corrected. That said, the opponent was under the impression that the decision stood. How do you fix that? Moderate your response, throw the gov member under the bus, or escalate the situation?
[/quote]

We fixed it on Tuesday, today is Friday...
We notified them of the error, apologized, and informed them our treaty partner wanted to join and we were letting them.
Sounds fair enough to me.

[King wilkinson]

We we're given several days notice that he spoke out of turn? Funny that no one in KoH's gov seems to be aware of it

Btw claiming we're about to disband is very classy

[Strykewolf]

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1296275873' post='2608567']
Well, mapping that to Misfits, Frodark and I would take your position, Callebaut would map to your XO. If someone lower in your alliance had made an alliance decision without consulting you, one you felt was detrimental to your alliance, you are honestly going to say you would run with it?

We gave KoH several days notice that Sho spoke out of turn, we further agreed to white peace with them, however, they backed out on it when we advised them that us declaring a mutual ceasefire would not alter our stance in the larger war. This thread is just a dishonest attempt to spin up some PR points before their inevitable disbandment and being forgotten.
[/quote]


I understand that, Mask. On the first paragraph.

The second paragragh I have to take what has been said in this thread, by both sides. I hope you understand why I am a bit on this situation.

[maskofblue]

[quote name='erikjsch' timestamp='1296276197' post='2608600']
Lawl! Two days? We were given maybe 2 hours to decide this. Impero demanded that Britishdude stayed awake until we decided and told him before the following day, if we did not reply to him or surrender to you(Misfit Nations) then they would attack right away. I'd like to know where you pulled the two days out from.
[/quote]
The talks were on Tuesday night, VE entered Thursday night. One day, two days. Nice to see we can add math to the growing list of deficiencies your alliance has demonstrated in this thread.

[Frodark]

[quote name='erikjsch' timestamp='1296276197' post='2608600']
Lawl! Two days? We were given maybe 2 hours to decide this. Impero demanded that Britishdude stayed awake until we decided and told him before the following day, if we did not reply to him or surrender to you(Misfit Nations) then they would attack right away. I'd like to know where you pulled the two days out from.
[/quote]

Two days notice that they were attacking. Not two days to decide to peace out.

[Britishdude]

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1296276389' post='2608618']
The talks were on Tuesday night, VE entered Thursday night. One day, two days. Nice to see we can add math to the growing list of deficiencies your alliance has demonstrated in this thread.
[/quote]

You know exactly what Erik is talking about. Or perhaps you want to take things out of context as you've accused us of?

[quote]01[23:41] <Britishdude[KoH|Gov]> Give me a few
[23:41] <Impero[VE]> all of that is collateral to the issue at hand
[23:41] <Impero[VE]> ok, take your time just let me know at some point tongiht[/quote]

[USMC123]

[quote name='King wilkinson' timestamp='1296276297' post='2608611']
Btw claiming we're about to disband is very classy
[/quote]

Ohh. This is classic.

[Strykewolf]

And since MN cannot decide on the time frame and semantics, I'll just stick to my initial assessment, for now.

Give em hell, KoH.

[Locke]

[quote name='lakerzz8' timestamp='1296267458' post='2608323']
Hahaha, STA has heard its fair share of that excuse. Whenever another alliance messes up big time, the only person who you didn't talk to becomes the only one that actually had the authority to make such a decision. Why those alliances keep other government members around at all is beyond me.
[/quote]
And this is why government members need to learn to stay within their bounds. Whether in your situations it was an excuse or valid is not for me to say, as I have no experience with your issues, but if something comes up that I deal with that is above my authority, I make sure that the other party is well aware of that fact. A lesson some people need to learn.

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1296274252' post='2608497']
Finally, let me close by saying this. You have embarrassed yourself far more than you have embarrassed us, though as a result of this thread we will not, for the time being be entertaining any requests for peace. You want to be a thorn, you will be treated like one. You will be torn from the minuscule cut you inflicted and thrown in the trash.
[/quote]
Oh wow, really? [i]Really?[/i] This sounds like something I've heard before, but not from you. This is just...I can't even put it into words.

[quote name='Frodark' timestamp='1296275641' post='2608552']
Instead of trying to play the martyr you should have accepted what was offered when you knew days ago that you were outmatched against Misfits both militarily and in terms of strength of friendships.
[/quote]
Translation: Because we are stronger, we will do whatever we like.
I pray for your sake you never find that shoe on the other foot; treat others as you'd like to be treated, and all that.

[Frodark]

[quote name='Britishdude' timestamp='1296276599' post='2608634']
You know exactly what Erik is talking about. Or perhaps you want to take things out of context as you've accused us of?
[/quote]

Impero wanted your answer that evening because he was leaving the conversation to tend to the larger war on his alliance's plate.

As you can see no declarations were made until days later...

[maskofblue]

[quote name='Britishdude' timestamp='1296276599' post='2608634']
You know exactly what Erik is talking about. Or perhaps you want to take things out of context as you've accused us of?
[/quote]

In that case, let's add in reading comprehension too because the original statement:

[QUOTE]Hyrule was given two days notice that VE would put Hyrulean nations in their target lists for the next rotation if peace was not agreed upon.[/QUOTE]

as it was the two day time frame before entering that erikjsch balked at. Notice how what he replied to was a statement about when KoH would be targeted.