KoH Recognition of Hostility with VE

[LittleRena]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1296273591' post='2608469']
Just throwing this out there, cuz I'm not a guy who might know ( ), but couldn't it be possible that VE did it on there own? That MN didn't ask for help?
[/quote]

So you are suggesting a lack of communication between protector and protectorate?
That's even worse.

[Strykewolf]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1296273283' post='2608464']
Except other people (including me!) see the issue differently.

Try reading the thread.



I think the mature protector here would act as protector.

(What, agreements and decisions can't change? Please.)
[/quote]


It hinges on the agreement between the alliances. If VE chose to intervene despite the agreement between them would speak volumes. Not only on their thoughts on such agreements, but in their protectorates ability to provide for itself in such decisions. If their protectorate panicked when losing and asked for help, then the maturity of VE is actually in question.

The protector of a protectorate is not only a protector, but, is also a teacher.

[USMC123]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1296273658' post='2608471']
So you are suggesting a lack of communication between protector and protectorate?
That's even worse.
[/quote]

Or maybe VE just doing what they want.

Point is, MN didn't ask for VE's help, as opposed to what the OP wants you to believe.

[Britishdude]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1296273591' post='2608469']
Just throwing this out there, cuz I'm not a guy who might know ( ), but couldn't it be possible that VE did it on there own? That MN didn't ask for help?

You spin me right round baby right round...
[/quote]


No, it couldn't be.
[quote]
[00:34] <MaskofBlue> we were not losing, pretty even imo
[00:34] <MaskofBlue> but why not get help if ya can?
[00:34] <MaskofBlue> isnt the point of war to win?[/quote]

[Strykewolf]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1296273658' post='2608471']
So you are suggesting a lack of communication between protector and protectorate?
That's even worse.
[/quote]


That is another question. Was VE aware of the agreement? As a protectorate, I would not enter into such an agreement without checking with my protector.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Britishdude' timestamp='1296273807' post='2608475']
[quote]logs[/quote]
[/quote]

I fail to see where MoB says they asked for VE's help.

[King wilkinson]

As Britishdude has already shown we know that Misfits did ask for help

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Britishdude' timestamp='1296273807' post='2608475']
No, it couldn't be.
[/quote]
It appears the person who CAN make the agreement decided to not do it. All is fair in love and war.

[Strykewolf]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1296273943' post='2608483']
It appears the person who CAN make the agreement decided to not do it. All is fair in love and war.
[/quote]


The DERP is strong within you. Carry on young skywalker...

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Britishdude' timestamp='1296273807' post='2608475']
No, it couldn't be.

[logs]
[/quote]

That settles that. No lack of communication, just an alliance changing their policy (as is well within their right).

[USMC123]

[quote name='King wilkinson' timestamp='1296273927' post='2608481']
As Britishdude has already shown we know that Misfits did ask for help
[/quote]

Actually no.

All I see is their acceptance of assistance. Doesn't mean they asked for it.

This is purely theoretical, but isn't it possible VE declared on KoH nations before talking to MN about it?

[Britishdude]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1296274097' post='2608490']
That settles that. No lack of communication, just an alliance changing their policy (as is well within their right).
[/quote]

Well excuse the hell out of me for expecting someone to stick with something we had agreed upon. I thought that there was more honor in the CN world, especially after dealing with MN. It would appear I was wrong.

[quote]Actually no.

All I see is their acceptance of assistance. Doesn't mean they asked for it.

This is purely theoretical, but isn't it possible VE declared on KoH nations before talking to MN about it? [/quote]


Theoretically, yes, however, that is not what happened.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Britishdude

[maskofblue]

So let me get this straight, when Misfit Nations was at war with both New Polar Order and Kingdom of Hyrule, it was, in your words, "fighting one on one"? I recognize you don't really add anything to the war, KoH, but you and Polar do in fact add up to two alliances (well, one and a quarter). So, now that you have to fight a sanctioned alliance like we are, you come crying to the forum?

Let me clarify a few things here. Firstly, we never asked VE to help, though we certainly welcome it. They came to roll with us because they are our allies. I'm sorry you do not understand how allies work, but when you are at war, they tend to aid you. Often they do so militarily. If this is not what Polar would do for you, perhaps you should consider reevaluating your treaty with them.

Secondly, we never made an agreement not to bring allies into the war. One of our lower government members said we would not be activating treaties, however, that was never their call to make. Why you thought you could negotiate how Misfits sees fit to pursue the war by talking to someone you knew didn't have the authority to speak for the alliance, we have no idea. However, you did and that one is on you. Next time you want to make an agreement with us, try speaking to our leadership.

Finally, let me close by saying this. You have embarrassed yourself far more than you have embarrassed us, though as a result of this thread we will not, for the time being be entertaining any requests for peace. You want to be a thorn, you will be treated like one. You will be torn from the minuscule cut you inflicted and thrown in the trash.

tl;dr

[center][img]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4574/tenorman.jpg[/img]
Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! My-yummy! Mm-yummy, you guys! [/center]

[USMC123]

Also: I thought it was cute how you left out your little quip calling MN nazis.

<MaskofBlue> we were not loosing, pretty even imo
<MaskofBlue> but why not get help if ya can?
<MaskofBlue> isnt the point of war to win?
<Britishdude[KoH|Gov]> Hitler thought so too

[lordliam]

If Misfit Nations really did make an agreement as such with KoH, and they went ahead and called on VE anyway, that would be quite the scumbag thing to do. However, VE didn't do anything wrong in this situation, they didn't agree on anything with KoH, they are merely defending their protectorate. I don't get why everybody is so disappointed in VE as well. Anyway, have fun KoH! o/

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296274007' post='2608486']
The DERP is strong within you. Carry on young skywalker...
[/quote]
You could at least attempt to refute what I was saying. Nice to know you don't have any substantial objections to what I was saying.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1296270667' post='2608387']
We don't need redeeming in the eyes of our allies, for they believe the truth of the situation, not what distorted version your side believes right now. As for our enemies? If I have learned one thing, it is that most people will not allow for redemption from their enemies, unless its politically convienent.
[/quote]

LOL are you kidding? Not talking to your allies to much are you? Odd that, they seem happy to be talking to us. You sure have burned many bridges in this one.

[Strykewolf]

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1296274252' post='2608497']
So let me get this straight, when Misfit Nations was at war with both New Polar Order and Kingdom of Hyrule, it was, in your words, "fighting one on one"? I recognize you don't really add anything to the war, KoH, but you and Polar do in fact add up to two alliances (well, one and a quarter). So, now that you have to fight a sanctioned alliance like we are, you come crying to the forum?

Let me clarify a few things here. Firstly, we never asked VE to help, though we certainly welcome it. They came to roll with us because they are our allies. I'm sorry you do not understand how allies work, but when you are at war, they tend to aid you. Often they do so militarily. If this is not what Polar would do for you, perhaps you should consider reevaluating your treaty with them.

Secondly, we never made an agreement not to bring allies into the war. [b]One of our lower government members said we would not be activating treaties[/b], however, that was never their call to make. Why you thought you could negotiate how Misfits sees fit to pursue the war by talking to someone you knew didn't have the authority to speak for the alliance, we have no idea. However, you did and that one is on you. Next time you want to make an agreement with us, try speaking to our leadership.

Finally, let me close by saying this. You have embarrassed yourself far more than you have embarrassed us, though as a result of this thread we will not, for the time being be entertaining any requests for peace. You want to be a thorn, you will be treated like one. You will be torn from the minuscule cut you inflicted and thrown in the trash.

tl;dr

[center][img]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4574/tenorman.jpg[/img]
Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! My-yummy! Mm-yummy, you guys! [/center]
[/quote]

Yeah, about that.

If you are not willing to back the call of a .gov member...you're gov is either too big, or...your ability to keep folks informed of protocol is sadly lacking.

[King wilkinson]

"We will not be bullied out of this war; we will not abandon our allies. We will enjoy continuing to be a thorn in VE's side and will relish the opportunity to meet them on the battlefield"

Did you even read that Maskofblue? We arnt looking for peace and we are actually looking forward to fighting VE, the fact they had to come in to save you is a sign of our victory

[Callebaut]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296272940' post='2608452']
A mature protector...if such an agreement was in effect between two micro-alliances, would actually advise the protectorate to seek peace. Preferably, a white one.
[/quote]

Honestly, the spin and fail in this thread is astounding.

Hyrule and Misfits were in peace talks already due to Hyrule's lack of preparation (7 mil warchests on nuclear nations). They asked that we both step out of the war, Misfits said that we were willing to agree to a white peace, but would continue to fight Polar once our slots were free. They declined. Impero, who we had informed of the entire situation, and was well aware of what was going on, then joined the peace talks. Hyrule was given two days notice that VE would put Hyrulean nations in their target lists for the next rotation if peace was not agreed upon. Hyrule declined, and here we are today.

And the claim that Hyrule thought there would be no retaliation from our side is also false. Erik, their Minister of Foreign Affairs, was well aware within a day of war that we were talking with our allies. Sho mispoke and was misinterpreted in that he was assuaging Hyrule's great fear that IRON would activate our recent treaty, when it is not even written in spirit to be military.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296274663' post='2608521']
Yeah, about that.

If you are not willing to back the call of a .gov member...you're gov is either too big, or...your ability to keep folks informed of protocol is sadly lacking.
[/quote]
Or the person who made the call does not have the authority to make the call they did.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296274663' post='2608521']
Yeah, about that.

If you are not willing to back the call of a .gov member...you're gov is either too big, or...your ability to keep folks informed of protocol is sadly lacking.
[/quote]

You're telling me you've never had a gov't member with no authority to make alliance decisions be wrong about an alliance policy?

[Xiphosis]

Hello KoH, how are you today? I'm fine.

[maskofblue]

[quote name='Strykewolf' timestamp='1296274663' post='2608521']
Yeah, about that.

If you are not willing to back the call of a .gov member...you're gov is either too big, or...your ability to keep folks informed of protocol is sadly lacking.
[/quote]

I'm glad you are on the other side. If you alliances hasn't even advanced enough to discover tiered government yet and you let anybody in your alliance dictate policy, I feel better about this war already.

[QUOTE]Did you even read that Maskofblue? We arnt looking for peace and we are actually looking forward to fighting VE, the fact they had to come in to save you is a sign of our victory...[/quote]

... he said, between heaving sobs. If that were true you would not have posted this overlong, self important, whiny rant about our allies being allies.

[Strykewolf]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1296274594' post='2608518']
You could at least attempt to refute what I was saying. Nice to know you don't have any substantial objections to what I was saying.
[/quote]


I already refuted your stance if you'd read and absorb what I said. In all honesty, the problem is not with VE as much as it is with the Protectorate. Still, I'd of expected a better reaction from VE...though I have to admit, after a years vacation, I find several alliances suprising me with their actions. And not necessarily in a good way.