omfghi2u2 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) It seems that alot of people are not understanding some basic facts of this war, so let us get a thread going. I will update it with submissions / posts as well. [list] [*]Lennox started this war pretty much for the lulz (Or in response to a thread. [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97316"]Click[/url]) [*]VE did NOT try diplomacy but instead posted a DoW [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97369&view=findpost&p=2586348"]Click[/url] [*]Dajobo DID say to go ahead [*]RoK DID warn their treaty partners 24 hours in advance that they were going to defend Polar. [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97369&view=findpost&p=2585861"]Click[/url] [*]RnR and GOD did not warn RoK about their decisions. [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97369&view=findpost&p=2586358"]Click[/url] [*]I think it is safe to establish that VE started an aggressive war against Polaris, hence the VE DoW [*]RoK has an MAoDP with Polaris, and Polaris having been attacked, RoK activated the DEFENSE clause of their treaty. Not just because they hate VE or anything, but simply because they were honoring a treaty [*]More basics facts to come [/list] -omfg Edited January 20, 2011 by omfghi2u2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Why do people always try and post "objective" lists like this and immediately add a bucketload of spin? Just give it up already and go home. Edited January 20, 2011 by Voytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omfghi2u2 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1295539383' post='2586444'] Why do people always try and post "objective" lists like this and immediately add a bucketload of spin? Just give it up already and go home. [/quote] Please indicate me to some spin. -omfg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295539439' post='2586446'] Please indicate me to some spin. -omfg [/quote] Everything. I am not exaggerating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295539290' post='2586441'] [list] [*]RnR and GOD did not warn RoK about their decisions. [/list] [/quote] Could you give me a source for this objective fact please. edit: Actually that question is rather irrelevant since they haven't attacked any RoK treaty partners. So I'll change it to, Why would they? [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295539290' post='2586441'] [list] [*]I think it is safe to establish that VE started an aggressive war against Polaris, hence the VE DoW [/list] [/quote] Spying isn't a aggressive action anymore? Lennox intentions when confronting Dajobo about wanting to spy doesn't change Dajobos actions here. Dajobo clearly condoned spying against VE and Lennox wanting to start a war doesn't change that. Edited January 20, 2011 by neneko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omfghi2u2 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1295539565' post='2586448'] Everything. I am not exaggerating. [/quote] [img]http://www.insomnia.gr/uploads/1290642738/gallery_63654_40_1180.gif[/img] -omfg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omfghi2u2 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295539851' post='2586459'] Could you give me a source for this objective fact please. [/quote] Link posted. [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295539851' post='2586459'] Spying isn't a aggressive action anymore? Lennox intentions when confronting Dajobo about wanting to spy doesn't change Dajobos actions here. Dajobo clearly condoned spying against VE and Lennox wanting to start a war doesn't change that [/quote] Action =/= war. Isnt saying bad things about another alliance an aggressive action as well? Yes, Dajobo condoned the spying, but if VE pursued diplomacy by either expelling Dajobo and ZI'ing him or some other, then this war could have been avoided entirely. Or even better, if they went to a third party to work things out, then this could have been avoided. As for the first fact, Lennox clearly states that he orchestrated this in response to the stagnation thread. [quote]I felt it necessary to take responsibility and provide everyone what they wanted.[/quote] And quoting from Lennox himself, he has thrown Dajobo under the bus. [quote]"BUT LENNOX YOU SCUMBAG! You betrayed one of your good friends!" [b]Oh well. [/b][/quote] -omfg Edited January 20, 2011 by omfghi2u2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantanX Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295539851' post='2586459'] Spying isn't a aggressive action anymore? [/quote] well, in this case no, especially when the spy it self in on [url=http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=441163&Extended=1]VE's Payroll[/url] Edited January 20, 2011 by gantanX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295540167' post='2586474']Yes, Dajobo condoned the spying, but if VE pursued diplomacy by either expelling Dajobo and ZI'ing him or some other, then this war could have been avoided entirely.[/quote] What part of "we want a war it's been nearly a full !@#$@#$ year since the last one this game is getting boring as !@#$" do you not understand? I'm sorry that you guys were dumb enough to light the powder keg, truly I am. But we're all in this to have fun and sitting around talking at each other until the game ends is not fun. Mindlessly whining DIPLOMACY DIPLOMACY DIPLOMACY seriously makes you part of the problem. Edited January 20, 2011 by Voytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295540167' post='2586474'] Link posted. [/quote] That's a link to your favorite smiley. Very cute but not really sufficient source. Furthermore I'd like to know why they would inform RoK about attacking a non-treaty partner of theirs. [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295540167' post='2586474'] Action =/= war. Yes Dajobo condoned the spying, but if VE pursued diplomacy by either expelling Dajobo and ZI'ing him or some other, then this war could have been avoided entirely. Or even better, if they went to a third party to work things out, then this could have been avoided. [/quote] Agressive actions mean you initiate a war. Be it spying, launching attacks or anything else that's a hostile action. [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295540167' post='2586474'] As for the first fact, Lennox clearly states that he orchestrated this in response to the stagnation thread. And quoting from Lennox himself, he has thrown Dajobo under the bus. [/quote] I can't say I care what you feel about Lennox. This doesn't exonerate Dajobo in any way. [quote name='gantanX' timestamp='1295540393' post='2586484'] well, in this case no, especially when the spy it self in on [url=http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=441163&Extended=1]VE's Payroll[/url] [/quote] VE sending war aid? This changes everything! Edited January 20, 2011 by neneko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omfghi2u2 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1295540472' post='2586486'] What part of "we want a war it's been nearly a full !@#$@#$ year since the last one this game is getting boring as !@#$" do you not understand? I'm sorry that you guys were dumb enough to light the powder keg, truly I am. But we're all in this to have fun and sitting around talking at each other until the game ends is not fun. Mindlessly whining DIPLOMACY DIPLOMACY DIPLOMACY seriously makes you part of the problem. [/quote] So you admit then that this whole war is pointless. Yes we all wanted a war, but the point I am trying to make here is that the CB for this war is stupid. -omfg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnerjack Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 This is IC too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295540660' post='2586491'] So you admit then that this whole war is pointless. Yes we all wanted a war, but the point I am trying to make here is that the CB for this war is stupid. -omfg [/quote] Trying to blather on about whether or not VE attempted diplomacy has little to nothing to do with the validity of the CB - you're greasily trying to grab some of that moral high ground for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295540660' post='2586491'] So you admit then that this whole war is pointless. Yes we all wanted a war, but the point I am trying to make here is that the CB for this war is stupid. -omfg [/quote] The CB for this war is solid. I'm sure that this could have been solved diplomatically but that doesn't mean that VE is in any way obligated to pursue that option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1295540660' post='2586491'] So you admit then that this whole war is pointless. Yes we all wanted a war, but the point I am trying to make here is that the CB for this war is stupid. -omfg [/quote] Ah, so you admit that there was no intent to remain objective in your OP, thereby making this entire thread pointless. Feel free to argue your points in one of the many already existing threads...you're not important enough for your own thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pain God Jones Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Real Objective facts: 1. Ninjas are mammals. 2. Ninjas will kill you and not even think twice. 3. These facts are no more ridiculous than this cheese and whine fest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1295539851' post='2586459'] Spying isn't a aggressive action anymore? Lennox intentions when confronting Dajobo about wanting to spy doesn't change Dajobos actions here. Dajobo clearly condoned spying against VE and Lennox wanting to start a war doesn't change that. [/quote] I would "condone" spying against lots of alliances, that doesn't mean I'm responsible for it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trail Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thread Delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1295543546' post='2586594'] I would "condone" spying against lots of alliances, that doesn't mean I'm responsible for it happening. [/quote] Condoning spying, albeit a slimy thing to do, is not the same as orchestrating spying. Dajobo participated in target selection and strove for the results. His involvement was clear and the evidence is damning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) It's clear that Lennox 'spy mission' had nothing to do with providing any sort of useful information to Polaris. Quite the opposite, his goal from the beginning was to screw Polaris. Whether VE was informed before or after he started, they've endorsed his actions by accepting him as a member while using his gag in exactly the way he intended it to be used. The clear conclusion from the publically available facts is that it is VE which is guilty of spying - specifically of involvment in Lennox' covert operation, one that aimed directly to destroy the security of Polaris. Edited January 20, 2011 by Sigrun Vapneir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1295544360' post='2586634'] It's clear that Lennox 'spy mission' had nothing to do with providing any sort of useful information to RoK. Quite the opposite, his goal from the beginning was to screw RoK. Whether VE was informed before or after he started, they've endorsed his actions by accepting him as a member while using his gag in exactly the way he intended it to be used. The clear conclusion from the publically available facts is that it is VE which is guilty of spying - specifically of involvment in Lennox' covert operation, one that aimed directly to destroy the security of Polaris. [/quote] It's clear that Lennox's "spy mission" had nothing to do with providing any sort of useful information to.....RoK? I don't recall anyone ever saying RoK was involved in the spying that started this mess. Not sure what you're arguing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 It was all RIA, we orchestrated this all three years ago. Dance, puppets, dance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='nippy' timestamp='1295543917' post='2586608'] Condoning spying, albeit a slimy thing to do, is not the same as orchestrating spying. Dajobo participated in target selection and strove for the results. His involvement was clear and the evidence is damning. [/quote] [size="6"][color="#FF0000"]YOU ARE WRONG[/color][/size] [size="1"]This post dedicated to CEverettKoop[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='nippy' timestamp='1295544550' post='2586636'] <snip> [/quote] Thanks for pointing out my typo. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1295544691' post='2586641'] [size="6"][color="#FF0000"]YOU ARE WRONG[/color][/size] [size="1"]This post dedicated to CEverettKoop[/size] [/quote] [quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1295544756' post='2586642'] Thanks for pointing out my typo. Fixed. [/quote] Oh. Okay, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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