Rogue yellow team senator

[Penkala]

[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1294460075' post='2568131']
15 pages of this tripe.

Penkala has been, is, and will almost certainly continue in the future to be an alliance-hopping rogue of virtually no substantive value to any alliance that he sponges off.

The VA senator exercised extremely poor judgement in providing Penkala with grist for his attention-seeking mill.

End of story.
[/quote]

You do realize that I joined CSN in late January of 2010 and left like a few days ago, right?

Granted there was about 3 weeks taken out of that for NSO, and about 5 taken out when I went rogue. 1 of which I was in CSN for.

But still... that's 10 months.

How does that constitute alliance hopping exactly?

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1294446946' post='2567869']
Just to cut you off, Damsky, nobody cares. You went rogue and got sanctioned. That's just how it works.
[/quote]

By our standards you're a rogue thus you have been sanctioned I don't see why you're complaining here.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294463271' post='2568200']
By our standards you're a rogue thus you have been sanctioned I don't see why you're complaining here.
[/quote]

Because there are like 3, 4 people who consider me a rogue and hundreds who do not?

Sorry, but just because you created an "alliance" doesn't mean that you actually are one. Your standards are of no significance; VE's standards and opinions (as with most other alliances' opinions) are, however, important. And nobody but you officially considers me a rogue.

Go away, Damsky, before I ZI your entire alliance myself.

Oh, wait... I already did that.

[King Srqt]

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1294265605' post='2564744']
Oh jeez, really? You'd be that pathetic as to declare war for this?

Well, impero is your leader... so that would make sense.
[/quote]
Last I checked sanctioning a member of an alliance, especially unprovoked, would be considered an act of war so barring any diplomatic solutions being reached once VA is contacted war would certainly not be unreasonable.

[quote name='Erixxxx' timestamp='1294266275' post='2564772']
If you've got an issue with one of my members, I suggest your alliance sends a representative to VA's IRC channel instead of blowing this up on the OWF. This reeks of attention-seeker.
[/quote]
Yes blame him for "blowing it up on the OWF" instead of blaming your senator for being incompetent. Glad to see passing the buck is still a proud tradition here on Bob.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1294463431' post='2568203']
Sorry, but just because you created an "alliance" doesn't mean that you actually are one. Your standards are of no significance; VE's standards and opinions (as with most other alliances' opinions) are, however, important. And nobody but you officially considers me a rogue.
[/quote]

Since when does VE decide what is and isn't an alliance? That has been the main argument of your side forever. A bit hypocritical no?

[Penkala]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294463698' post='2568213']
Since when does VE decide what is and isn't an alliance? That has been the main argument of your side forever. A bit hypocritical no?
[/quote]

When an AA is one man only, not looking out for its members interests, and its only intent is to attack alliances, a reasonable person would conclude that it's a rogue, not an alliance.

It's just common sense.

Having an AA name doesn't change what you're doing or how you're doing it.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294463698' post='2568213']
Since when does VE decide what is and isn't an alliance? That has been the main argument of your side forever. A bit hypocritical no?
[/quote]
Maybe it is the beer talking, but how the $%&@ is this about what is and is not an alliance? Protip: it's not. Also, Penkala may be a rogue by your standards, but he is a VE member. By you hitting him without our consent, you are a rogue yourself or its an alliance declaration. Either way, I only wish I could help smear you across the ground.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1294464305' post='2568229']
When an AA is one man only, not looking out for its members interests, and its only intent is to attack alliances, a reasonable person would conclude that it's a rogue, not an alliance.
[/quote]

Only in your world could an alliance be one man only and contain "members".

And how do you know our only intent is to attack alliances?

Edited January 8, 2011 by Mr Damsky

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1294464495' post='2568236']
By you hitting him without our consent, you are a rogue yourself or its an alliance declaration.
[/quote]

He has hit us while wearing the CSN AA and then fled to VE.

[Locke]

While I wouldn't say Penkala is a rogue as of now, the argument I've seen tossed around that being an alliance member precludes one from being a rogue is patently ridiculous. Rogues are those that commit offensive actions without approval from higher authority, which can be done with or without an AA.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1294465218' post='2568255']
While I wouldn't say Penkala is a rogue as of now, the argument I've seen tossed around that being an alliance member precludes one from being a rogue is patently ridiculous. Rogues are those that commit offensive actions without approval from higher authority, which can be done with or without an AA.
[/quote]

The distinction here is that when warranted alliances quickly disavow individual nations (or make amends for) when they preform undesirable acts.

Penkala's status as a member of VE is not in duspite, hence not a rogue.

Were he to start lobbing nukes at VA for this, we'd laugh our asses off, but still expel him since were about as fond of people who launch unauthorized attacks from our AA as we are of people who launch unauthorized attacks on our AA. Him having then been disavowed, would be a rogue.

Until such an event happens, he is a member of this alliance and entitled to the full protections accorded to any member, regardless of whatever past grudges others may wish they could act on.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294465140' post='2568253']
He has hit us while wearing the CSN AA and then fled to VE.
[/quote]
The fact he was let in shows that he wasn't at war for a period of time. Don't blame him for your own alliance's failure to deal out it's justice.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Felix von Agnu

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1294467106' post='2568296']
The fact he was let in shows that he wasn't at war for a period of time.
[/quote]

He was at war when you "accepted" him, this is indisputable.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Mr Damsky

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294467204' post='2568299']
He was at war when you accepted him, this is indisputable.
[/quote]
Well, I guess I learned a lesson about assumptions.

Anyways, while he was at war, it was assisting VE against you; after you attacked our protectorate.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Felix von Agnu

[JWConner]

You VE people are awesome. I don't think I've ran into so many people who buy into Penkala's games as I've seen in this thread. It's quite spectacular.

Felix, you keep spouting off about how VA is condoning the sanctions and that VA should have gone to VE and blah, blah blah.

It's already been discussed ad nauseum that the VA Senator acted on his own due to reacting to Penkala's moronic remarks. Was it over the top? Maybe. Was it an act of war? Absolutely not. It's a 3 day sanction that causes absolutely NO damage to any party. It inconvenienced a tech deal. Whoopdeedoo!! The VA Senator has been spoken to and things are being dealt with in private channels. This thread was needless and was merely an attempt at attention-seeking, which is Penkala's specialty. Stop throwing your weight around and acting like it's some breaking point to a war. Wait the 3 days, then get on with your lives...if that's remotely possible.

Hell, I'm not even a member of VA anymore...so I clearly have nothing to gain here. But enough is enough. We all know Penkala will have another moment to draw attention to himself within the next week or so. Just sit back and wait for that one, because this attempt was rather pathetic...although he's clearly succeeded in garnering the attention he sought.

Edited January 8, 2011 by JWConner

[Goose]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294465140' post='2568253']
He has hit us while wearing the CSN AA and then fled to VE.
[/quote]
He didn't flee to VE. He hit you while being a member of CSN and with my approval. As I recall, you recognized it as an alliance action and declared war on CSN. Please stop with the drivel that Penkala was acting as a rogue. He has since decided to join VE, whom is still at war with you. Likely, they approve of his war against you as well.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Goose

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1294446113' post='2567862']
I know that I have explained this to you before, try to listen this time. Forsberg's sanctions during karma were not done with government approval, he simply thought that's what he was suppose to do in an alliance war. As soon as it was brought to our attention (yes, while the fighting was still taking place), the sanctions were removed. We do not use sanctions during war, which is why they were immediately removed as soon as government noticed they existed.
[/quote]
This is actually the first time you've ever said this. And no, they weren't removed immediately; they lasted for well over a month.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294453711' post='2567958']
Hi, I'm from VE, you may remember us from such wars as the Green Civil war, and !@#$%^&* treaties like the algae accords.

You've confused us for a !@#$titer alliance previously known as the GGA, who did try to claim ownership of a team and instituted purges.

Our alliance history includes a team unity treaty that specifically welcomes anyone who wants to come to green and forbids attempting to force anybody off, unlike the GGA crafted piece of trash to try and (fail to) control a team.
[/quote]
Said treaty actually did force Grämlins off the team. Nice try.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294453711' post='2567958']
You might not remember these differences since you are best pals with some of the people who enabled the bad parts of the GGA and you've been chowing down on rose tinted propaganda so long that a bull !@#$ sandwich is a typical meal for you.

Alternatively your grip on reality may just be that tenuous if you thought it would be good idea to try and lecture the Viridian Entente on how or how not to go about interacting with a color sphere.
[/quote]
Your problem is that you shared a sphere with the GGA for so long that you don't know how civilized spheres actually run their affairs.

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1294459460' post='2568116']
Typo, Invicta is currently on the Red sphere. The Red Sphere, as you may know, has a loooong history of diversity and understanding. We could never understand.
[/quote]
Actually... it does.

I wouldn't expect you to remember alliances like the VG Coalition or the Red Rose though. The Red sphere has for a very long time only had one large alliance, but it's been the home of small alliances for as long as I've been here on Planet Bob.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]Said treaty actually did force Grämlins off the team. Nice try.[/quote]
Um, no, no it didn't. Some of the political shenanigans surrounding its signing were interpreted by plenty in Grämlins as an insult and the alliance freely chose to move colours (against my wishes ). I've always believed that was an over-reaction and probably related to several people not [i]really[/i] wanting to sign to the same piece of paper as GGA. But we were [i]not[/i] forced off Green.

[quote]Your problem is that you shared a sphere with the GGA for so long that you don't know how civilized spheres actually run their affairs.[/quote]
Okay, who wants to make the obvious Purple joke here?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294494097' post='2568549']
Um, no, no it didn't. Some of the political shenanigans surrounding its signing were interpreted by plenty in Grämlins as an insult and the alliance freely chose to move colours (against my wishes ). I've always believed that was an over-reaction and probably related to several people not [i]really[/i] wanting to sign to the same piece of paper as GGA. But we were [i]not[/i] forced off Green.
[/quote]
That's not what WCR told me at the time. And sorry, he's been more trustworthy than you over the years.

[erikz]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294494097' post='2568549']
Okay, who wants to make the obvious Purple joke here?
[/quote]
Purplol!!!!

Failsphere.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1294464495' post='2568237']
Only in your world could an alliance be one man only and contain "members".

And how do you know our only intent is to attack alliances?
[/quote]

I was pointing out that you [i]don't[/i] defend your members' interests because you have no members' interests to defend.

[quote]He has hit us while wearing the CSN AA and then fled to VE. [/quote]

It was an approved war by two major alliances. I left CSN in the middle of the war. Approved wars by major alliances in defense of those alliances =/= roguery. Once again, Damsky, you can't change the definition of an 'evil term' to apply it to your enemy. That isn't how it works.

[quote]He was at war when you "accepted" him, this is indisputable. [/quote]

What he was trying to get at was that I wasn't in a rogue war for any amount of time. I was in a war that was approved both by CSN and VE, two major alliances.

[quote]Wait the 3 days, then get on with your lives...if that's remotely possible.[/quote]

Once again, that will not be happening in this situation. There are consequences to the senator's actions. He won't just be 'walking away' from this.

If you think that VA's continued potshots at me will be allowed, you're mistaken. You're just fortunate that I'm in VE now. Had I still been a member of CSN, it's likely that this would have ended a lot more violently for VA.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Penkala

[Bob Janova]

That's a dirty trick bringing a respected and retired MHA member into the conversation when he can't come in and clarify things, Haf. The slur against my character is fun, too, but you should think about that: even if I [i]was[/i] a politically scheming propagandist, why would I want to make GGA (an alliance which was my enemy for most of our shared time in CN) look better? But it's pretty hilarious that you're trying to argue with me about something which happened when I was in Grämlins government and involved in the decision. Either you're lying or twisting WCR's words, or WCR had misunderstood something.

None of which has anything to do with sanctions, by the way, and only a fairly tenuous of links to VE (in that they were a UJA signatory).

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294470912' post='2568406']
You VE people are awesome. I don't think I've ran into so many people who buy into Penkala's games as I've seen in this thread. It's quite spectacular.

Felix, you keep spouting off about how VA is condoning the sanctions and that VA should have gone to VE and blah, blah blah.

It's already been discussed ad nauseum that the VA Senator acted on his own due to reacting to Penkala's moronic remarks. Was it over the top? Maybe. Was it an act of war? Absolutely not. It's a 3 day sanction that causes absolutely NO damage to any party. It inconvenienced a tech deal. Whoopdeedoo!! The VA Senator has been spoken to and things are being dealt with in private channels. This thread was needless and was merely an attempt at attention-seeking, which is Penkala's specialty. Stop throwing your weight around and acting like it's some breaking point to a war. Wait the 3 days, then get on with your lives...if that's remotely possible.

Hell, I'm not even a member of VA anymore...so I clearly have nothing to gain here. But enough is enough. We all know Penkala will have another moment to draw attention to himself within the next week or so. Just sit back and wait for that one, because this attempt was rather pathetic...although he's clearly succeeded in garnering the attention he sought.
[/quote]
You should go back, reread what I said, and then come back here. I think you have me confused with other people. I guess you have a new obsession with me though, so I'm flattered and slightly creeped out. I think that this should be handled like a normal rogue-type situation, you are the one with the raw sewage pouring out of your mouth here. Your first arguement was "Penkala deserves it." If I ever become senator, I hope you aren't on the same sphere, because your loud mouth is making you really stick out...

[Locke]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294503148' post='2568620']
That's a dirty trick bringing a respected and retired MHA member into the conversation when he can't come in and clarify things, Haf.
[/quote]
[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=613&showentry=2437"]He's still around[/url] and could if he wished, actually.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294470912' post='2568406']
You VE people are awesome. I don't think I've ran into so many people who buy into Penkala's games as I've seen in this thread. It's quite spectacular.
[/quote]

Penkala's games? I think you missed the point where VE will answer an attack against a member, if you have a senator who is so thin skinned an in game PM can make him do something this stupid, you have the problem not VE.

[quote]It's already been discussed ad nauseum that the VA Senator acted on his own due to reacting to Penkala's moronic remarks. Was it over the top? Maybe. Was it an act of war? Absolutely not. [/quote]

Oh it absolutely is an act of war, you wanna test that? Ask NSO what 6mil in aid bought them. You are just fortunate VE is generous when it comes to diplomatic resolutions before we go for the nukes.

[quote]
Hell, I'm not even a member of VA anymore...so I clearly have nothing to gain here. But enough is enough. We all know Penkala will have another moment to draw attention to himself within the next week or so. Just sit back and wait for that one, because this attempt was rather pathetic...although he's clearly succeeded in garnering the attention he sought.
[/quote]

Well then I suggest you teach your (old, you AA hopper you:P) senator how not to be criminally stupid in carrying out his duties in the future, you blame penkala for being sanctioned as if he had complete control of another team's senator's actions.

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294494097' post='2568549']
Okay, who wants to make the obvious Purple joke here?
[/quote]

Red too now, lets not forget Invicta migrated to red because they couldn't think up any other ways to suck up to NPO any harder.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1294489744' post='2568529']
Actually... it does.

I wouldn't expect you to remember alliances like the VG Coalition or the Red Rose though. The Red sphere has for a very long time only had one large alliance, but it's been the home of small alliances for as long as I've been here on Planet Bob.
[/quote]

This is my point about feasting on your own propaganda so long you lose touch with reality. Somebody refresh my memory, what was that NPO policy that stood for years, something about them owning the team, nobody else could live there?

Red's had lots of fail micros over the years, who NPO never bothered enforcing that policy in because they were too small to matter. Even their own policy recognized that micro's under a certain size weren't worth the effort.

I even remember several startups flocking to red once we Karma, along with a bunch of bawwing that nobody would ever dare defy NPO's policy if they weren't in the middle of a losing war. That same doctrine was repealed in NPO's surrender terms too.

So tell us again how red is a paragon of diversity and acceptance? Or are you going to claim that NPO's actions after Karma, when they know they'd have gotten rolled for trying to kick people off red, mean anything at all? Its easy to not act like an ass when you know nobody will let you get away with it.

Haf, your posts get easier to pick a part as time goes on. You've got more spin than a dryer and you aren't even that good at applying it.