Joint Poison Clan - iFOK Announcement

[Branimir]

Its a politically rational decision, as far as I can see. Of course, once you are in the main power structure stakes are higher. Things change for you.

To expect anything other would be irrational. Not over this thing.

[JBone]

How can you reconcile this:

[quote name='Derwood1' timestamp='1292822494' post='2545670']
Nusantara Elite Warriors (NEW) has decided to attack Dark Fist, as is their right and choice. With much deliberation, the alliances of iFOK and Poison Clan have decided to follow the wishes of NEW and will not be activating the Optional Aggression clauses of our respective treaties with NEW; this is at the request of NEW government relayed to us in back channels. That said, we do not wish to see them become a punching bag for Planet Bob.

We recognize the need for Dark Fist's allies to come to their aid. The forces of INT, TPE, and Fark are honor bound to defend their ally Dark Fist. Just as we are honor bound to defend NEW against any other alliance. So let this serve as a warning. This battle will remain limited. We, the forces of Poison Clan and iFOK, will defend our ally, Nusantara Elite Warriors, against any other nation or force that attempts to use this as an excuse to bandwagon on them.

Signed,

Derwood1
Leader, Poison Clan

MikeTheFirst, Arexes, Gofastleft
Triumvers, iFok
[/quote]
with this quote from the first response in the NEW/PC MDoAP.

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][quote name='Derwood1' timestamp='1272429301' post='2278155'][/size][/font][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]This has been along time coming! NEW are a bunch of great guys and Allies that believe as we do Friends > Infra.

o/ NEW
o/ Poison Clan[/quote]

From this day forward the Poison Clan should be renamed.

The [size="4"][b]Optional Defence Clan[/b] [/size]has a nice ring to it, dontcha think.


.....glad I looked down pefore this went up.

Z3 left ODC.......what is that they say about rats and sinking ships?
[/font][/size]

[Arrnea]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1292868755' post='2546735']Someone from TPE declared on a PC'er first. Then Coffee Shock declared on two from TPE. I fought Coffee Shock during Karma. He lives up to his nickname, he is on for war 24/7.[/quote]
Then it looks like people at TPE and PC have [b]both[/b] jumped the gun here. Hope this can be resolved quickly.

[Ying Yang Mafia]

[quote name='Finnish Commie' timestamp='1292869053' post='2546742']
I am sure NEW will provide us with a good challenge. The matter of the fact is though that they are so overwhelmed they have no chance of pulling this off.
[/quote]

Overwhelmed as of now.

[greenacres]

[quote name='JBone' timestamp='1292869156' post='2546747']
How can you reconcile this:


with this quote from the first response in the NEW/PC MDoAP.

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]

From this day forward the Poison Clan should be renamed.

The [size="4"][b]Optional Defence Clan[/b] [/size]has a nice ring to it, dontcha think.


.....glad I looked down pefore this went up.

Z3 left ODC.......what is that they say about rats and sinking ships?
[/font][/size]
[/quote]

You were never really good at propaganda, you probably shouldn't try your hand at it now.

That being said, anyone can see why, politically this was done. Politically, and following the letter of the written agreement signed between NEW and PC, this is okay, there's nothing wrong with it from that standpoint. What is wrong with it though, is that NEW and PC, at one point, and I believe you should know this because I believe you're the one who told me long ago to get twist to stop trying to sign a treaty with NEW (when they were a TPF protectorate still) NEW and PC were incredibly close, and that the treaty was simply a formality. It could have been gibberish, or written in swahili, it didn't matter what it said, because at one point in time, PC would not have questioned for a moment defending NEW.

If this was another alliance, if this was Athens or someone else, there'd be no problem. But it's NEW, and PC should have shown NEW more respect than this.

Edited December 20, 2010 by greenacres

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1292868486' post='2546730']
I hadn't heard of a PC nation, but the iFOK nation is, so I hear.
[/quote]
I'm a rogue? That's news to me. I thought I was just defending NEW from bandwagoners, like we promised in this statement.

[AirMe]

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1292868272' post='2546728']
You completely missed his point.
[/quote]

He also didn't his post I assume either.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1292869080' post='2546744']
Its a politically rational decision, as far as I can see. Of course, once you are in the main power structure stakes are higher. Things change for you.

To expect anything other would be irrational. Not over this thing.
[/quote]

And though a cloud of stupidity shines through a beacon of rationality and light!

This man, he has it.

EDIT: I need to lay off the cold medicine.

Edited December 20, 2010 by AirMe

[greenacres]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1292869674' post='2546763']
He also didn't his post I assume either.
[/quote]

Probably.

It's easy to lump PC in to any anti-raiding argument though, but the truth of the matter is they've always been one of the better raiding alliances. Their only mishaps happened during karma, which were more calculated risks than lapses in judgement.

[edit:] forgot about that one time before karma where TPF made em pay reps and all that. Either way, they were still calculated risks (as both instances happened to involve TPF)

Edited December 20, 2010 by greenacres

[AirMe]

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1292869648' post='2546761']
I'm a rogue? That's news to me. I thought I was just defending NEW from bandwagoners, like we promised in this statement.
[/quote]

You could have done that like, 3 days ago when Ertty actually attacked.

Let me guess....stagger?

[JBone]

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1292869512' post='2546755']
You were never really good at propaganda, you probably shouldn't try your hand at it now.

That being said, anyone can see why, politically this was done. Politically, and following the letter of the written agreement signed between NEW and PC, this is okay, there's nothing wrong with it from that standpoint. What is wrong with it though, is that NEW and PC, at one point, and I believe you should know this because I believe you're the one who told me long ago to get twist to stop trying to sign a treaty with NEW (when they were a TPF protectorate still) NEW and PC were incredibly close, and that the treaty was simply a formality. It could have been gibberish, or written in swahili, it didn't matter what it said, because at one point in time, PC would not have questioned for a moment defending NEW.

If this was another alliance, if this was Athens or someone else, there'd be no problem. But it's NEW, and PC should have shown NEW more respect than this.
[/quote]

Excellent to see you are on board with the Optional Defence Clan moniker.

I knew I could count on you Greenie.

Perhaps if Twist wakes up from his long slumber you and he could coup ODC and ride to the rescue.

And if it was Athens Arch would have made them pay reps and apologize, c'mon we all know that.

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1292870202' post='2546773']
You could have done that like, 3 days ago when Ertty actually attacked.

Let me guess....stagger?
[/quote]
No I was just waiting to see if iFOK would join this war or not.. Besides, they didn't attack eachother the first few days, so there would be no point for me in declaring also without attacking.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1292869648' post='2546761']
I'm a rogue? That's news to me. I thought I was just defending NEW from bandwagoners, like we promised in this statement.
[/quote]
You aren't, but the guy who attacked members of INT and TPE probably is.

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1292870791' post='2546783']
You aren't, but the guy who attacked members of INT and TPE probably is.
[/quote]
Please take another look at his AA..

[Believland]

[quote name='JBone' timestamp='1292870678' post='2546779']
Excellent to see you are on board with the Optional Defence Clan moniker.

I knew I could count on you Greenie.

Perhaps if Twist wakes up from his long slumber you and he could coup ODC and ride to the rescue.

And if it was Athens Arch would have made them pay reps and apologize, c'mon we all know that.
[/quote]

Oh man. You just got my hopes up when you talk about a Twisted ran PC. **** would be so money. Oh yeah, I guess Greenie would be good too :v

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1292870825' post='2546789']
Please take another look at his AA..
[/quote]
Yes, but I'm still assuming that's who was being referred to rather than yourself. That was my point.

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1292870955' post='2546791']
Yes, but I'm still assuming that's who was being referred to rather than yourself. That was my point.
[/quote]
Alright, but he's still wrong.

[Hadrian]

Pandora's Box is fragile after all.

[Finnish Commie]

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1292870825' post='2546789']
Please take another look at his AA..
[/quote]
[IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/23u1kht.jpg[/IMG]
If you look very carefully you might see the reason why some of us were a slightly confused, before consulting iFOK gov in private and clarifying the matter.

[Alterego]

Poison clan are hereby known as poison pen. Hard on paper not so good at defending allies

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='Finnish Commie' timestamp='1292871519' post='2546806']
[IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/23u1kht.jpg[/IMG]
If you look very carefully you might see the reason why some of us were a slightly confused, before consulting iFOK gov in private and clarifying the matter.
[/quote]
You were just one click away from disconfusion..

Edited December 20, 2010 by Spaarlaamp

[Finnish Commie]

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1292871724' post='2546812']
You were just one click away from disconfusion..
[/quote]
Actually at the time we noticed that he hadn't yet changed his AA (neither in IRC nor in CN).

[Arrnea]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1292870955' post='2546791']Yes, but I'm still assuming that's who was being referred to rather than yourself. That was my point.[/quote]
Correct. I was not referring to Spaarlaamp at all.

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1292871196' post='2546795']Alright, but he's still wrong. [/quote]
Okay, he's not a rogue, but nor is he executing the will of iFOK as an alliance, which is what people were assuming originally (and I sought to debunk).

[quote name='Finnish Commie' timestamp='1292871830' post='2546817']Actually at the time we noticed that he hadn't yet changed his AA (neither in IRC nor in CN).[/quote]
Pretty much this.

[Kevanovia]

I don't understand how NEW can DoW on an Alliance that no longer exists.

Fact is this: INT/TPE/FARK had a CB and declared war on NEW. You guys are legally bound to defend NEW, but you're using the Optional Aggression part of the treaty as a non-existent loophole. You are "Mutually bound" to come to each other's defense. NEW didn't declare war, therefore the optional aggression part of the treaty does not come into play here.

*sighs*

This is why Foreign Affairs on Planet Bob has went downhill, people seem to have the inability to engage their brains.

[Finnish Commie]

Seriously, this topic is full of people speculating without sufficient amount of information on the matter and let me say most of you aren't even hitting close to the target.