GOON spy orders

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Haquertal' timestamp='1285687291' post='2466855']
So it's cool as long as everyone else is doing it, right?
[/quote]
No, what Hal is saying--and correct in saying so--is that Timeh's attempted-zinger is a failure to launch. The most obvious reason is that FOK was right there beside Old Guard in the Continuum for most of the time that Vox existed, giving OG all the political capital they needed to pursue an alliance-wide PZI. Anyone that was in Continuum at the time open's a pandora's box when they start trying to use Vox examples.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1285682422' post='2466827']
LOL @ Old Guard Member comparing GOONS to Nazi's.
I remember Old Guard under Reyne leadership. They decided to put all of Vox Populi on their Perm ZI list. And you guys dare to compare GOONS raiding to Nazi's?
You guys are out of your mind.
[/quote]
OG is a better alliance than FOK when it comes to respecting the rights of others and while Reyne made a bad choice to do that, I don't see why you bring what happened under Reyne's leadership as if its even relevant to anything here. If you can't beat their arguments, you resort to attacking the character of the person saying it, but your living in the past if you think Reyne's previous leadership is relevant to the present OG's reputation.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='EEjack' timestamp='1285680789' post='2466815']
Let us see...unreasonable hatred toward people that are different. [b]Uh.[/b]
Expansion of state rights to determine faithfulness to the state. [b]Uh.[/b]
Labeling of individuals who do not conform to said state's dictates. [b]Uh.[/b]
Expansion into other state's sovereign rights to pursue non conformists. [b]Uh.[/b]
Hunting down and committing acts of aggression on those who do not conform. [b]Uh.[/b]
Propaganda to rile/scare the populous into conformance and justify the removal of sovereign rights. [b]Uh.[/b]
Committing acts of aggression upon sovereign states. Check.
[/quote]
You complain that GOONS is painting with broad strokes? The last one obviously applies to our tech raiding, but I'd like to see a bit of explanation for the rest of these. The first one in particular.

[nippy]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285688762' post='2466873']
If you can't beat their arguments, you resort to attacking the character of the person saying it
[/quote]

Pot, meet kettle. It's not your fault, however....you generally don't understand what's going on enough to respond to any arguments in a logical manner. Your two cents are worth two cents.

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1285682695' post='2466830']
I warned you people about aiding people we're at war with bro

I told you dog

I told you man

I [size="5"]Told[/size] you people about aid
[/quote][img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-golfclap.gif[/img]

Well played.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='EEjack' timestamp='1285680789' post='2466815']
Let us see...unreasonable hatred toward people that are different. Check.
Expansion of state rights to determine faithfulness to the state. Check.
Labeling of individuals who do not conform to said state's dictates. Check.
Expansion into other state's sovereign rights to pursue non conformists. Check.
Hunting down and committing acts of aggression on those who do not conform. Check.
Propaganda to rile/scare the populous into conformance and justify the removal of sovereign rights. Check.
Committing acts of aggression upon sovereign states. Check.

{OOC}Didn't remember who spoke the original speech - quoted it from memory - looks like I was pretty close. I'm old and remember lots of scary and horrific things like that. Obviously no one is saying there will be a kristallnacht but sending out phony aid et al and demanding compliance is in game terms...pretty damn close. If it makes you uncomfortable imagine how it makes me feel.{OOC}
[/quote]

You did not. Tell me you did not just post that. This must be a new CN low.

[Derwood1]

[IMG]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff14/Derwood130/spy_jim.jpg[/img]

Just wanted to go on record so I don't get accused of being a GOONS stooge; I spied Jim cause I wanted to spy a rogue.....my decision.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Derwood1

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Derwood1' timestamp='1285692536' post='2466925']
[IMG]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff14/Derwood130/spy_jim.jpg[/img]

Just wanted to go on record so I don't get accused of being a GOONS stooge; I spied Jim cause I wanted to spy a rogue.....my decision.
[/quote]
That's a member of KN you just spied, so its not really a rogue and what you did was an act of aggression against an alliance. You're lucky we're preoccupied with GOONS at the moment, so I don't really time to deal with you guys, but this act of aggression has been noted. You seem to be the rogue here from my perspective, committing unprovoked acts of aggression against an alliance member with no state of war existing between our alliances.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Methrage

[Biazt]

[quote name='EEjack' timestamp='1285680789' post='2466815']
Let us see...unreasonable hatred toward people that are different. Check.
Expansion of state rights to determine faithfulness to the state. Check.
Labeling of individuals who do not conform to said state's dictates. Check.
Expansion into other state's sovereign rights to pursue non conformists. Check.
Hunting down and committing acts of aggression on those who do not conform. Check.
Propaganda to rile/scare the populous into conformance and justify the removal of sovereign rights. Check.
Committing acts of aggression upon sovereign states. Check.

{OOC}Didn't remember who spoke the original speech - quoted it from memory - looks like I was pretty close. I'm old and remember lots of scary and horrific things like that. Obviously no one is saying there will be a kristallnacht but sending out phony aid et al and demanding compliance is in game terms...pretty damn close. If it makes you uncomfortable imagine how it makes me feel.{OOC}
[/quote]
Oh lord, and I thought we already hit rock bottom. It seems even after all these years CN can still surprise me.

[nippy]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285693181' post='2466936']
That's a member of KN you just spied, so its not really a rogue and what you did was an act of aggression against an alliance. You're lucky we're preoccupied with GOONS at the moment, so I don't really time to deal with you guys, but this act of aggression has been noted. You seem to be the rogue here from my perspective, committing unprovoked acts of aggression against an alliance member with no state of war existing between our alliances.
[/quote]


We're allied to PC, genius...so either you ARE a rogue and you don't deserve the entitlements that an alliance deserve, or you are an alliance and you declared war on their treaty partner. Your move.

[Timmmehhh]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285688101' post='2466866']
No, what Hal is saying--and correct in saying so--is that Timeh's attempted-zinger is a failure to launch. The most obvious reason is that FOK was right there beside Old Guard in the Continuum for most of the time that Vox existed, giving OG all the political capital they needed to pursue an alliance-wide PZI. Anyone that was in Continuum at the time open's a pandora's box when they start trying to use Vox examples.
[/quote]
VoX was not on perm ZI by the whole continuum but only by NPO and OG. The perm ZI policy was actually one of the reasons we canceled Q and the treaty with NPO.

And yes you are a big hypocrite if you compare some minor raiding to Nazism while you are in an alliance who allows perm-ZI and has perm ZI'd nations before. The latter is way more "unfair" than the first. Nations who get raided can simply join a protected alliance. Perm-ZI'd targets can't really do anything anymore.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Timmehhh

[MikeCrotch]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1285682695' post='2466830']
I warned you people about aiding people we're at war with bro

I told you dog

I told you man

I [size="5"]Told[/size] you people about aid
[/quote]

I can't wait to be a useless piece of !@#$ all day and hug all my infrastructure

[Derwood1]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285693181' post='2466936']
That's a member of KN you just spied, so its not really a rogue and what you did was an act of aggression against an alliance. You're lucky we're preoccupied with GOONS at the moment, so I don't really time to deal with you guys, but this act of aggression has been noted. You seem to be the rogue here from my perspective, committing unprovoked acts of aggression against an alliance member with no state of war existing between our alliances.
[/quote]

I don't consider your rabble of rogues a sovereign alliance and you attacked our ally; so if you are so thick that you can't understand why I spied Jim then here ya go: Poison Clan acknowledges a state of ongoing hostilities with the Rabble of Rogues that call themselves Kerberos Nexus. This collection of fail has attacked our ally and we stick by our friends....though I don't think we will have too many targets to atttack, lol.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1285663187' post='2466734']
Are you contacting nations that are trading with Methrage with a Uranium resource?
[/quote]
No, we're not.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285677879' post='2466796']
GOONS don't seem to want to end it anytime soon, so mostly all there is to focus on is damage for now so they feeling the war hurting them until it going on longer isn't worthwhile. As it is now I don't think they'll be willing to discuss peace that doesn't involve me voluntarily destroying my nation for them, as they seemed pretty caught up on wonder decommissions last time I spoke to them of peace.
[/quote]
No, eternal war is pretty dumb, and we're quite happy to discuss peace. The thing is, you're completely unwilling to offer or accept anything but white peace, because you believe you can run around doing whatever you want and never pay for it. We will absolutely discuss peace once you're willing to admit to yourself and us that you won't get white peace and are going to actually have to do something to get peace. You have no money or tech or friends, so you're going to have to figure out how to pay us back if you want to talk.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Beefspari

[Beefspari]

DP

Edited September 28, 2010 by Beefspari

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1285697554' post='2467011']
No, eternal war is pretty dumb, and we're quite happy to discuss peace. The thing is, you're completely unwilling to offer or accept anything but white peace, because you believe you can run around doing whatever you want and never pay for it. We will absolutely discuss peace once you're willing to admit to yourself and us that you won't get white peace and are going to actually have to do something to get peace. You have no money or tech or friends, so you're going to have to figure out how to pay us back if you want to talk.
[/quote]
I already know whatever reps you're going to ask are going to be unreasonable when you're already indicating they won't be possible for me to pay. Before I offered to possibly do some tech deals with you guys at an extra good rate, but you insisted on wanting me to decommission wonders. If you have a different offer then I'm open to hear it, but from 'off-hand' comments its led me to believe you guys will probably want at least $90m reps and decommissioning of wonders. If I'm not prepared to decommission wonders in exchange for peace you don't consider it I'm serious about it from what you've said, which makes talking about peace before you guys have me to the point of being ready to decommission wonders pointless.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285693181' post='2466936']
That's a member of KN you just spied, so its not really a rogue and what you did was an act of aggression against an alliance. You're lucky we're preoccupied with GOONS at the moment, so I don't really time to deal with you guys, but this act of aggression has been noted. You seem to be the rogue here from my perspective, committing unprovoked acts of aggression against an alliance member with no state of war existing between our alliances.
[/quote]
PC is already allied to us, so if you really believe yourself to be a real alliance you're already going to have to fight:

PC
iFOK
Alpha Omega
VE
=LOST=
OSA
GOD
Umbrella
Mushroom Kingdom

I'm loving this "anyone who's a member of KN isn't a rogue" idea though. It seems to be the one you're going with too, since so far it applies to two of your members.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285698052' post='2467020']
I already know whatever reps you're going to ask are going to be unreasonable when you're already indicating they won't be possible for me to pay. Before I offered to possibly do some tech deals with you guys at an extra good rate, but you insisted on wanting me to decommission wonders. If you have a different offer then I'm open to hear it, but from 'off-hand' comments its led me to believe you guys will probably want at least $90m reps and decommissioning of wonders. If I'm not prepared to decommission wonders in exchange for peace you don't consider it I'm serious about it from what you've said, which makes talking about peace before you guys have me to the point of being ready to decommission wonders pointless.
[/quote]
"Unreasonable" considering you have nothing to give us but have rogued on us twice and nuked us dozens of times? I'm not sure those two things string together. Even if we wanted to ask 90m you don't have it. You don't even have 9m. Almost literally anything we asked for would be "unreasonable" considering you don't have it, but it's not our fault you decided to attack us -- AGAIN -- even though you don't have anything to pay as reps. Just because you're broke doesn't get you off the hook. But we probably won't be asking for money or tech since you don't have any anyway.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Beefspari

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1285698369' post='2467026']
PC is already allied to us, so if you really believe yourself to be a real alliance you're already going to have to fight:

PC
iFOK
Alpha Omega
VE
=LOST=
OSA
GOD
Umbrella
Mushroom Kingdom

I'm loving this "anyone who's a member of KN isn't a rogue" idea though. It seems to be the one you're going with too, since so far it applies to two of your members.
[/quote]
So sanctions can be lifted now? Also you've already been calling in help from most of those regardless.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285698052' post='2467020']
I already know whatever reps you're going to ask are going to be unreasonable when you're already indicating they won't be possible for me to pay.
[/quote]
You haven't tried to negotiate with us because a post Beefspari just made said that you'll have to find some way other than tech or money to pay us? I didn't know you could see the future.

I stopped reading here - please try again without so much spin. I was getting dizzy.

Edit: For clarity, I'm trying to point out that Meth hasn't known what we would and wouldn't ask for because he hasn't come and asked us (after the first attempt, which we have since explained were nowhere near "set in stone" terms). The fact that he justifies having not previously attempted negotiations because of something that he learned just now is ridiculous.

Edited September 28, 2010 by ktarthan

[citizenkane]

Poison Clan will hereby harbor any [s]rogues[/s] nations who wish to hit Kerberos Nexus.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285698530' post='2467028']
So sanctions can be lifted now? Also you've already been calling in help from most of those regardless.
[/quote]
No matter how many members you get, you are still a rogue. You can't be a rogue, then join/create an AA and recruit people, and retroactively stop being a rogue. If it worked that way, every rogue would do this, and nobody would ever be sanctioned.

YOU consider KN an alliance, which means if you do you're already going to have to fight all our allies -- whether WE believe you to be an alliance or not. But even if we did consider KN to be an alliance, YOU would still be a rogue (and so would Jim).

[Derwood1]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1285698800' post='2467032']
No matter how many members you get, you are still a rogue. You can't be a rogue, then join/create an AA and recruit people, and retroactively stop being a rogue. If it worked that way, every rogue would do this, and nobody would ever be sanctioned.

YOU consider KN an alliance, which means if you do you're already going to have to fight all our allies -- whether WE believe you to be an alliance or not. But even if we did consider KN to be an alliance, YOU would still be a rogue (and so would Jim).
[/quote]


How dare you call a rogue a rogue you rogue

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1285698800' post='2467032']
No matter how many members you get, you are still a rogue. You can't be a rogue, then join/create an AA and recruit people, and retroactively stop being a rogue. If it worked that way, every rogue would do this, and nobody would ever be sanctioned.

YOU consider KN an alliance, which means if you do you're already going to have to fight all our allies -- whether WE believe you to be an alliance or not. But even if we did consider KN to be an alliance, YOU would still be a rogue (and so would Jim).
[/quote]
An ally only needs to do something if you request their help and the treaty requires them to do so, you've already been requesting their help throughout this regardless of whether you feel like classifying us as rogues or an alliance at the moment.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285699134' post='2467037']
An ally only needs to do something if you request their help and the treaty requires them to do so, you've already been requesting their help throughout this regardless of whether you feel like classifying us as rogues or an alliance at the moment.
[/quote]
Our allies can help us for any damn reason they please. But... I guess thanks for pointing out we have good allies?

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285699134' post='2467037']
An ally only needs to do something if you request their help and the treaty requires them to do so, you've already been requesting their help throughout this regardless of whether you feel like classifying us as rogues or an alliance at the moment.
[/quote]
Is that how it works? All our allies check all their actions with us first before acting on joke alliances that we happen to be involved with?

Derwood, I'm going to have to suspend you for acting without my permission. I expect $12 in reps and for you to sit in the corner and think about what you've done.