Ragnarok Declaration of War

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281901889' post='2416893']
I'm going to have to agree with the Zog here. When I, a member of \m/ can stand side by side with members of VE with the same perspective on a issue you know something positive is up.
[/quote]

Yea I'm going to have to third the motion, if you are looking for a big split from SG over a controversial war, this one ain't it.

[renrohns]

[quote name='KingEd' timestamp='1281879500' post='2416634']
"Curbstomp" or "Gangbang" here you go whining again about something the Sith itself caused. For the record---someone can correct me here if I'm wrong but "our side" has taken little to no damage in comparison to NSO.
[/quote]


Go ahead and read that whole message and not just the words "curbstomp" and "gangbang". Those are in "quotes" for a reason.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Kahnite' timestamp='1281901168' post='2416881']
Keep on thinking that.
[/quote]

Thus far, two people have quoted me to disagree ... they were from the NPO and TPF.

I think your responses only help to prove my statement to be correct. I suppose I should thank you?

[chris8967]

I must agree with my friends here, the war with NSO has brought Rok and her allies even closer together. A little shout out to Rebel Virginia, it took a big pair on your part to jump out of PM and attack everyone like a mad man. I must admit I have respect for you for doing that. Now nuke me again

[Heft]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' timestamp='1281850573' post='2416435']
I have only one question to this: Did NSO know of Sedrick and RoK's issues before you accepted him?

* Sorry if this question was asked earlier but I'm interested in seeing what your reply is.
[/quote]
We knew that TENE had taken aggressive actions against his nation, we knew that he had offered peace, and we knew that some small nation and some small alliance were in the middle of some probably dumb spat.

Also, RoK didn't just not seek out a diplomatic resolution, they actively dodged any attempt at considering such a resolution.

[Thorgrum]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281912574' post='2417068']
Also, RoK didn't just not seek out a diplomatic resolution, they actively dodged any attempt at considering such a resolution.
[/quote]

Now, now heft lets not be hasty.... The Sith had 100% control of the situation, until the end. Had you not aided the rouge there would not be a war, no matter what transpired before or after that was something you had control over and you chose the option, you were warned would lead you to war. Had you chosen to wait, a day, maybe 2 the outcome could have been different.

We had the guy handeled you made your choice with full knowledge of the consequences because I know you can read. Ownership of ones choices is the path to humility and away from the dark side.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1281913259' post='2417088']
Now, now heft lets not be hasty.... The Sith had 100% control of the situation, until the end. Had you not aided the rouge there would not be a war, no matter what transpired before or after that was something you had control over and you chose the option, you were warned would lead you to war. Had you chosen to wait, a day, maybe 2 the outcome could have been different.

We had the guy handeled you made your choice with full knowledge of the consequences because I know you can read. Ownership of ones choices is the path to humility and away from the dark side.
[/quote]

You really want to start that circle again?

Had RoK not declared on Sedrick while under NSO AA we wouldn't have aided him

[Thorgrum]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1281913476' post='2417094']
You really want to start that circle again?

Had RoK not declared on Sedrick while under NSO AA we wouldn't have aided him
[/quote]

There is no circle, we assumed you would adhere to your policies of not interfering with nations who came to your AA and had exsisting wars. Since you chose to ignore it (again something you had control over, no one on our side begged you to ignore your policies) and then ignore our warning I'd say you took complete control and projected the outcome you wanted.

Where is the outrage?

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1281913771' post='2417099']
There is no circle, we assumed you would adhere to your policies of not interfering with nations who came to your AA and had exsisting wars. Since you chose to ignore it (again something you had control over, no one on our side begged you to ignore your policies) and then ignore our warning I'd say you took complete control and projected the outcome you wanted.

Where is the outrage?
[/quote]

We assumed you would, you know, provide the proof that was readily available if you had asked TENE (Who was the original complainant anyway).

It could be argued that TENE could have quite sensibly talked to heft about the entire situation (I've spoken with their leaders....quite sensible people) and gotten it resolved quietly without any need for RoK to even know about it (So to speak, Im sure you would still have asked if there was a problem).

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' timestamp='1281850573' post='2416435']
I have only one question to this: Did NSO know of Sedrick and [s]RoK[/s]' TENEs issues before you accepted him?

* Sorry if this question was asked earlier but I'm interested in seeing what your reply is.
[/quote]

No, we had only the second half of the story. The first half was the "prove it" we asked for.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1281913476' post='2417094']
You really want to start that circle again?

Had RoK not declared on Sedrick while under NSO AA we wouldn't have aided him
[/quote]

Lets go the circle!

Had NSO not accepted a rogue nation who was currently in active wars without clearing it with the people hunting him like everybody else does they wouldn't have had any problems at at.

Go back as far as you want, the first mistake is still yours.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1281913771' post='2417099']
There is no circle, we assumed you would adhere to your policies of not interfering with nations who came to your AA and had exsisting wars. Since you chose to ignore it (again something you had control over, no one on our side begged you to ignore your policies) and then ignore our warning I'd say you took complete control and projected the outcome you wanted.

Where is the outrage?
[/quote]

We were staying out of the the issues he had with TENE. They happened off our AA. When RoK attacked him on our AA you involved us further and it became a whole other ballgame.

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1281915119' post='2417126']
Lets go the circle!

Had NSO not accepted a rogue nation who was currently in active wars without clearing it with the people hunting him like everybody else does they wouldn't have had any problems at at.

Go back as far as you want, the first mistake is still yours.
[/quote]

Oh really? Look at my post a couple back.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1281915198' post='2417128']
Oh really? Look at my post a couple back.
[/quote]

And thus we are officially at the 'No U' stage.

Good game, everyone.

[Heft]

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1281913259' post='2417088']
Now, now heft lets not be hasty.... The Sith had 100% control of the situation, until the end. Had you not aided the rouge there would not be a war, no matter what transpired before or after that was something you had control over and you chose the option, you were warned would lead you to war. Had you chosen to wait, a day, maybe 2 the outcome could have been different.

We had the guy handeled you made your choice with full knowledge of the consequences because I know you can read. Ownership of ones choices is the path to humility and away from the dark side.
[/quote]
Yes that has been said 100 times and has nothing at all to do with my post. Good job!

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281912574' post='2417068']
We knew that TENE had taken aggressive actions against his nation, we knew that he had offered peace, and we knew that some small nation and some small alliance were in the middle of some probably dumb spat.

Also, RoK didn't just not seek out a diplomatic resolution, they actively dodged any attempt at considering such a resolution.
[/quote]
Is it the official government position that Sedrick is a innocent nation and TENE actions against are entirely aggressive and unjustified?

[shilo]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281892519' post='2416763']
"Most" would be a stretch. If you honestly think we're sitting over here going "Man, this blew up in our faces ... look at all that backlash!", you are wrong. The detractors are for the most part the usual suspects and the expected crowd that comes out to boo and hiss at "this side" of the web.
[/quote]
I wasn't thinking that though.
I am pretty sure you really think that "talking" means informing someone that you will do what you want, and if they don't get out of your way, they started the war. And it seems that "whining" to you is wondering about this... strange... definition of the word talking.


So I actually think you consider yourself to have handled this just perfectly, gotten your war, and just don't get why not everyone is happy with you. And then of course some generalities like "usual suspects" and "the other side" stuff to avoid the two-sided version of the word talking.

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281916454' post='2417157']
And thus we are officially at the 'No U' stage.

Good game, everyone.
[/quote]

Of course, because your side is obviously in the right.

RoK, maybe you should have let TENE put on their big boy pants and come to us themselves. Its not like your job is to, you know, protect them until they are big enough to have a pair without your support or anything.

I do believe they have a word for this in certain realms abroad....."Spoiling" your children? or in this case your protectorates?

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1281917141' post='2417176']
Of course, because your side is obviously in the right.

RoK, maybe you should have let TENE put on their big boy pants and come to us themselves. Its not like your job is to, you know, protect them until they are big enough to have a pair without your support or anything.

I do believe they have a word for this in certain realms abroad....."Spoiling" your children? or in this case your protectorates?
[/quote]
I guess it makes sense NSO would rather deal with a smaller organization the could readily threaten and manipulate. Given the size and experience of both TENE and NSO I think it was very prudent for RoK to deal with NSO on this issue.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281917567' post='2417187']
I guess it makes sense NSO would rather deal with a smaller organization the could readily threaten and manipulate. Given the size and experience of both TENE and NSO I think it was very prudent for RoK to deal with NSO on this issue.
[/quote]

Threaten and manipulate? Into ...... Giving us the first half of the story which most likely would have ended up with us giving them Sedrick? How evil we are.

[Adam Suttler]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281917567' post='2417187']
I guess it makes sense NSO would rather deal with a smaller organization the could readily threaten and manipulate. Given the size and experience of both TENE and NSO I think it was very prudent for RoK to deal with NSO on this issue.
[/quote]
Perhaps RoK were good to step up to the plate, but I doubt it was TENE's intention to completely roll an alliance simply because of a rogue. Now, a TENE official will obviously argue otherwise, as they assume they got more than they expected, but that doesn't make it right.

No doubt RoK will impose a ridiculous number of reparations, debts, and other peace terms to NSO, who really don't deserve this kind of treatment. But I digress...

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281917567' post='2417187']
I guess it makes sense NSO would rather deal with a smaller organization the could readily threaten and manipulate. Given the size and experience of both TENE and NSO I think it was very prudent for RoK to deal with NSO on this issue.
[/quote]

Simple facts and some screenshots would have sufficed and a deal could have been worked out perfectly.
I couldn't see us threatening or manipulating anyone with a valid concern about a member we had picked up. But obviously, this road would not have lead to RoK's desired end result.

Having worked with protectorates myself, I can understand TENE's unwillingness to approach a larger alliance to tell them that their new member was being a pest. Experience yields confidence in these matters.

RoK could have easily had this same dialogue with TENE and transferred the same evidence to us. Bam, problem solved--a deal of term ZI or something similar is worked out and everyone walks away happy. Instead, RoK cherry-picks in an effort to bait us into believing the wars defensive so that we will treat him like a normal member who has been "unjustly attacked".

Which is quite obviously not the case, but we were not even informed of the first half of the sedrick story until after the war had been declared.

EDIT: Subject-verb fail.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Krunk the Great

[Heft]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281916897' post='2417170']
Is it the official government position that Sedrick is a innocent nation and TENE actions against are entirely aggressive and unjustified?
[/quote]
I don't think you read the post I was responding to, because your reply doesn't actually seem relevant to what was being discussed.

This seems to be a trend.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281918234' post='2417199']
I don't think you read the post I was responding to, because your reply doesn't actually seem relevant to what was being discussed.

This seems to be a trend.
[/quote]
Well, let me ask the same question separate from any previous post.
Is it the official government position that Sedrick is a innocent nation and TENE actions against are entirely aggressive and unjustified?

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1281917772' post='2417192']
Threaten and manipulate? Into ...... Giving us the first half of the story which most likely would have ended up with us giving them Sedrick? How evil we are.
[/quote]
You had no right to the first half of the story, it wasn't NSO business was it?