Reformation of TBBAF and DoW

[Daikos]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='11 May 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1273619953' post='2295312']
If you expect me to remember every random alliance that does something stupid over the last 3 or 4 years that I call out then you better get me a secretary to keep a list. However I am flattered that whatever I did or said had such an impact on you that you could not resist coming here. My ego thanks you.
[/quote]

Amazing how someone could forget something that they were so up in arms about 2 months ago. No, not three years ago. Not two years ago. Two months ago. If I remember correctly you spent most of our DoW thread and another doing what you do best, spewing nonsense in the form of poorly formatted posts.

An impact on me? Outside of the hilarity of it, no. It's just hard to forget how damn funny it was for you to insist over and over again that you had approached our allies and learned through your powerful deductive ability that the reason they didn't post on OWF was because they didn't support us. Another astute political observation from you.

Perhaps you should see a physician if you're having so much trouble with your memory. At the very least, get a time machine and travel back to a time when you were at least somewhat relevant.

edit: inb4 hurrr durrr tears or whatever other prepackaged response you have lined up.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Daikos

[the masheen]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='11 May 2010 - 05:15 PM' timestamp='1273619714' post='2295305']
Well if you had been paying attention from the very start you would know this has nothing to do with morality. It has to do with setting a precedent that if allowed to stand could be used against any alliance on Planet Bob. To actively oppose Gramlins is a matter of self preservation to every alliance on Bob. Also please come by and enlighten me sometime about these past exploits that anger you so. As for my nation, it is now as it has always been irrelevant. It allows me to be here nothing more. You might have noticed its lack of infra, tech and pretty much anything else it needs. Although I think for the first time in my long history I have my trade slots full thanks to my friends at IAA who set me up in a trade circle when I was with them. Speaking of friends any aid offered including retro treaty agreements have been declined. As I have explained over and over its not about \m/ and its not about me. Well a little about me. Its about Gramlins. Its about Unconditional Surrender. Imagine if you had to face unconditional surrender. You have to know for an alliance like yours that would not end well. You say it does not matter to you but, it should. It should matter to everyone. And I think to most people it does. People however are more worried about treaties, rebuilding and what may happen if they do act. So they leave it to others and hope it all works out. Of course people could prove me wrong. Nations and alliances could act. If they have the guts.
[/quote]

What are these "guts" you speak of?

[Kzoppistan]

Sorry your larger campaign got derailed by a bunch of goobers, TBB, though it must be a testament to your popularity that \m/ changed their internal policy just to get you. I would say that the sacrifice of your tech was worth the damage to \m/'s reputation. It was a brave move. Had I not been under terms I would have joined you. Feel free to stop by for some rebuilding aid anytime. When Gre crumbles, we can have a beer and laugh. Good show, man.

o/ TBB

Edited May 12, 2010 by Kzoppistan

[jer]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='12 May 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1273624100' post='2295382']
Sorry your larger campaign got derailed by a bunch of goobers, TBB[/quote]
You mean his larger campaign that just repeated (albeit in a more stilted and simple manner) what has already been said bazillions of times in the 'The New Gramlins' thread? He wasn't a trailblazer on this issue, there have been plenty of people arguing against the idea of unconditional surrender, but they have been debating it in a coherent and sensible manner like adults (err, kinda) in one place instead of wading around creating dodgy crusades and set-plays like the pitiful example we've seen here.

If the world isn't aware of the unconditional surrender term after it's debated for a month over the course of many pages in the aforementioned thread then I highly doubt gimmicks like this one are going to do the trick.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Aimee Mann

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='11 May 2010 - 08:28 PM' timestamp='1273624100' post='2295382']
I would say that the sacrifice of your tech was worth the damage to \m/'s reputation.
[/quote]

The same dozen losers who attack everything we do have attacked us again and those whose opinion of us counts either think no differently of us or have enjoyed the spectacle and congratulated us. We've even nabbed a few members because of the publicity. Oh wait, I forgot. We'll be paying for this hundredfold when TBB rises as a god amongst mere mortals and strikes down all who wronged him (or some other vague improbable consequences being promised for this raid).

[Lezrahi]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='11 May 2010 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1273624100' post='2295382']
Sorry your larger campaign got derailed by a bunch of goobers, TBB, though it must be a testament to your popularity that \m/ changed their internal policy just to get you. I would say that the sacrifice of your tech was worth the damage to \m/'s reputation. It was a brave move. Had I not been under terms I would have joined you. Feel free to stop by for some rebuilding aid anytime. When Gre crumbles, we can have a beer and laugh. Good show, man.

o/ TBB
[/quote]

It is a testament, but not to his popularity...

Aside from that, I am not qualified to make statements on \m/'s reputation...and neither are you. Not to be mean. It is only the truth.

But I will join you in laughing [i]if[/i] The Grämlins crumble. Just as long as they don't disband. This world needs its antagonists.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' date='11 May 2010 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1273625405' post='2295411']
You mean his larger campaign that just repeated (albeit in a more stilted and simple manner) what has already been said bazillions of times in the 'The New Gramlins' thread? He wasn't a trailblazer on this issue, there have been plenty of people arguing against the idea of unconditional surrender, but they have been debating it in a coherent and sensible manner like adults (err, kinda) in one place instead of wading around creating dodgy crusades and set-plays like the pitiful example we've seen here.

If the world isn't aware of the unconditional surrender term after it's debated for a month over the course of many pages in the aforementioned thread then I highly doubt gimmicks like this one are going to do the trick.
[/quote]

*Shrug*

Well, I think that being willing to put yourself in the spotlight, and the consequences that come with it, is braver than sitting around debating. It was a symbolic act, which can change people's opinions on the matter, and I think it's unfortunate that it got overshadowed.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Kzoppistan

[Thomas Jackson]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='11 May 2010 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1273593940' post='2294770']
Now that is just silly. You are telling me you changed your alliance policy, attacked my alliance, continue to divert attention from Gramlins crime of demanding uncontional surrender, used nukes, threatened other alliances for trying to aid me all to just attack a tiny nation, that sat publicly without an AA at pretty much the same size for weeks, and all for making you tear up a couple years ago? Do you expect anyone to believe that your alliance is that pathetic? Do you expect anyone believe that you are foolish enough to publicly act and support attacking an alliance because people don't like you? I mean that would mean have handed out an CB for your entire alliance that you publicly support with your words and your actions. Now I ask you are the people of Planet Bob supposed to believe that \m/ is that stupid? Or does it make more sense that you are supporting Gramlins? So again maybe you should go back, sit down and come up with a better reason then what you have provided. Because otherwise you just placed a huge target on your entire alliance. Not so simple really is it?
[/quote]

Your friends are cowards; they will support you with words, not with actions.

If you did not wish to be attacked, you would not have done something so foolish as to go rogue. Now your citizens and infrastructure shall burn for your oversight and arrogance.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='11 May 2010 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1273619989' post='2295315']
It actually has everything to do with morality. A precedent being set is not inherently a bad thing - it becomes one when it opposes your morals.
[/quote]

It will not oppose my morals it will threaten the security of whatever alliance I am in. And that is the problem. Will people be willing to go into losing wars knowing that unconditional surrender is an accepted norm? Will alliances like \m/ who are not well liked be forced to disband again in fear of what would come with a lost war and the threat of unconditional surrender? They do not deserve that. If they and others were faced with that then they would be less likely to ever do anything. Tell me how \m/ and others like them, acting like normal alliances would be a good thing for Planet Bob? It would not be. At least when one has harsh terms there is a place to work from. Negotiations and public opinion at least give you some wiggle room. Unconditional Surrender takes that away. Gramlins is attempting to control the behavior of alliances on Planet Bob by placing them under threat of unconditional surrender. That can not be allowed.

[Lezrahi]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='11 May 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1273625683' post='2295418']
*Shrug*

Well, I think that being willing to put yourself in the spotlight, and the consequences that come with it, is braver than sitting around debating. It was a symbolic act, which can change people's opinions on the matter, and I think it's unfortunate that it got foreshadowed.
[/quote]

I believe that the word that you're looking for is 'overshadowed', but no, I would not say so. The matter of The Grämlins is hardly erased from the minds of the people. This changed little, however. Everyone (that I can see) is pretty much where they were on it before The Bad began this campaign.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Lezrahi

[jer]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='12 May 2010 - 01:55 AM' timestamp='1273625683' post='2295418']
*Shrug*

Well, I think that being willing to put yourself in the spotlight, and the consequences that come with it, is braver than sitting around debating. It was a symbolic act, which can change people's opinions on the matter, and I think it's unfortunate that it got overshadowed.
[/quote]
I guess this is where we differ then, as I think it's braver and more effective to try and present a solid and lasting argument and defend it with logic and reason than to - perhaps in lieu of logic and reason - make your point via schoolboy stunts in a desperate attempt for a few cheap publicity points, before inevitably being forgotten about a week later.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Aimee Mann

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' date='11 May 2010 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1273626057' post='2295435']
I guess this is where we differ then, as I think it's braver and more effective to try and present a solid and lasting argument and defend it with logic and reason than to - perhaps in lieu of logic and reason - make your point via schoolboy stunts in a desperate attempt for a few cheap publicity points, before inevitably being forgotten about a week later.
[/quote]


Well, to be clear, I agree with your statement about ensuring one is grounded on a solid argument. But a combination of articulation and action is the most effective, and if I had a choice of sitting around and listening to a bunch of people yap (90% of what happens here) and seeing someone act in defense of their beliefs, I would prefer the second of the two.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Kzoppistan

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='11 May 2010 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1273625878' post='2295426']
Your friends are cowards; they will support you with words, not with actions.

If you did not wish to be attacked, you would not have done something so foolish as to go rogue. Now your citizens and infrastructure shall burn for your oversight and arrogance.
[/quote]

Oh no, not my nation. However will I regain all that lost infrastucture. It will take me an entire month, granted someone who knows how to build a nation could do it in a week. The mighty \m/ using nukes on all what? 6K NS I had. That is so impressive. I just do not know how I will ever recover from that. I also guess you missed the part where I declared war on Gramlins. Someone was going to attack me either raiders or MHA/FARK ect. I never expected to get away with my rocking 50 tech intact. I am not sure what is sadder that you fail to grasp that my little nation is irrelvent or that this is what you consider a great victory for \m/.

[Thomas Jackson]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='11 May 2010 - 09:09 PM' timestamp='1273626577' post='2295444']
Oh no, not my nation. However will I regain all that lost infrastucture. It will take me an entire month, granted someone who knows how to build a nation could do it in a week. The mighty \m/ using nukes on all what? 6K NS I had. That is so impressive. I just do not know how I will ever recover from that. I also guess you missed the part where I declared war on Gramlins. Someone was going to attack me either raiders or MHA/FARK ect. I never expected to get away with my rocking 50 tech intact. I am not sure what is sadder that you fail to grasp that my little nation is irrelvent or that this is what you consider a great victory for \m/.
[/quote]

I have never claimed it to be a victory, although I am indeed pleased to have liberated some technology and cash from you while you wallow in your own self-despair.

[the masheen]

I feel bad for all the people who actually matter and who are losing substantial amounts of ns being OVERSHADOWED by glory hogs like The Big Bad. I think that \m/ are acting bravely and valiently. It's not about the morality of the war, it's about the PRESEDENT of attacking rogue terrorist nations. We can't expect people to just think it's okay to go rogue and attack other alliances. Thank god their are true heroes out there like \m/. I think that \m/ should make their own thread about how they are attacking rogues like Big Bad and eliminating the enemy terrorists in CN to avoid terrorist presendents from being set, and call for people to join them.

Good show \m/!!!

[jer]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='12 May 2010 - 02:06 AM' timestamp='1273626395' post='2295439']
Well, to be clear, I agree with your statement about ensuring one is grounded on a solid argument. But a combination of articulation and action is the most effective, and if I had a choice of sitting around and listening to a bunch of people yap (90% of what happens here) and seeing someone act in defense of their beliefs, I would prefer the second of the two.
[/quote]
Fine, but TBB's version of articulation appears to be managing to pad out 'unconditional surrender is bad and Gre are very naughty for trying it' (a very dumbed down version of a more complex argument ... one that has been repeatedly approached in detail by many people amongst the yapping of the thread in World Affairs) into ugly scaremongering paragraphs repeating the same basic points over and over, post after post. And his action is the one-man offensive of him and his friends with a tiny nation, and even that has failed because he didn't adequately protect himself against those out for revenge.

Not very impressive or effective imo.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Aimee Mann

[Daikos]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='11 May 2010 - 09:09 PM' timestamp='1273626577' post='2295444']
Oh no, not my nation. However will I regain all that lost infrastucture. It will take me an entire month, granted someone who knows how to build a nation could do it in a week.
[/quote]

Which is exactly why this move is nothing more than a desperate grab for attention. People with nations that can be rebuilt in a weeks time are not making some grand gesture by going rogue and they certainly are not being brave.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' date='11 May 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1273626057' post='2295435']
I guess this is where we differ then, as I think it's braver and more effective to try and present a solid and lasting argument and defend it with logic and reason than to - perhaps in lieu of logic and reason - make your point via schoolboy stunts in a desperate attempt for a few cheap publicity points, before inevitably being forgotten about a week later.
[/quote]

If one thing is clear from the people here not only do my "schoolboy stunts" not get forgotten, they tend be remembered for a very long time. I don't even remember what half these people are talking about. Granted I am flattered that I my every action is noted and that people keep track of what I am doing even after all this time.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='the masheen' date='11 May 2010 - 10:12 PM' timestamp='1273626741' post='2295450']
I feel bad for all the people who actually matter and who are losing substantial amounts of ns being OVERSHADOWED by glory hogs like The Big Bad. I think that \m/ are acting bravely and valiently. It's not about the morality of the war, it's about the PRESEDENT of attacking rogue terrorist nations. We can't expect people to just think it's okay to go rogue and attack other alliances. Thank god their are true heroes out there like \m/. I think that \m/ should make their own thread about how they are attacking rogues like Big Bad and eliminating the enemy terrorists in CN to avoid terrorist presendents from being set, and call for people to join them.

Good show \m/!!!
[/quote]

I think going rogue is fine actually. Especially if the cause is right.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' date='11 May 2010 - 10:13 PM' timestamp='1273626801' post='2295452']

Not very impressive or effective imo.
[/quote]

You may, or may not, be right. But in this case, we'll never know.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='11 May 2010 - 09:06 PM' timestamp='1273626395' post='2295439']
Well, to be clear, I agree with your statement about ensuring one is grounded on a solid argument. But a combination of articulation and action is the most effective, and if I had a choice of sitting around and listening to a bunch of people yap (90% of what happens here) and seeing someone act in defense of their beliefs, I would prefer the second of the two.
[/quote]

A combination of articulation and action would be lovely, but there's no meaningful form of either present in TBB's endeavor.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='11 May 2010 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1273626738' post='2295449']
I have never claimed it to be a victory, although I am indeed pleased to have liberated some technology and cash from you while you wallow in your own self-despair.
[/quote]

How is it you have a nation puny enough to hit mine anyway? Are you as bad at nation building as I am? And as for wallowing? Indeed I am in the knowledge that despite my not being around for so very long that people still want to make a name for themselves by attacking me and then bragging about it. I am more than pleased that Gramlins has been exposed to even more people who might have forgotten the threat their actions present to all Planet Bob. If your not claiming it as a victory I sure as hell am.

Edited May 12, 2010 by The Big Bad

[lebubu]

lebubu's merry men are watching you

[Thomas Jackson]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='11 May 2010 - 09:21 PM' timestamp='1273627291' post='2295470']
How is it you have a nation puny enough to hit mine anyway? Are you as bad at nation building as I am? And as for wallowing? Indeed I am in the knowledge that despite my not being around for so very long that people still want to make a name for themselves by attacking me and then bragging about it. I am more than pleased that Gramlins has been exposed to even more people who might have forgotten the threat their actions present to all Planet Bob. If your not claiming it as a victory I sure as hell am.
[/quote]

My nation is the size it is because I have stood by my alliance and my allies on the glorious fields of war. When one fights in a war, you will take damage and your nation will subsequently get smaller. Since \m/ reformed, I have served in three seperate wars, and the size of my nation reflects the prowess of the combatants I faced. Surely this is not too difficult of a concept for even you to grasp.

I do not care if you want to call it a victory or not. Your actions will quickly be forgotten, and Gramlins will do as they please regardless of what actions you take. That actually sounds more like a defeat, or even better, a complete and total waste of your time and resources.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='11 May 2010 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1273627735' post='2295486']
My nation is the size it is because I have stood by my alliance and my allies on the glorious fields of war. When one fights in a war, you will take damage and your nation will subsequently get smaller. Since \m/ reformed, I have served in three seperate wars, and the size of my nation reflects the prowess of the combatants I faced. Surely this is not too difficult of a concept for even you to grasp.

I do not care if you want to call it a victory or not. Your actions will quickly be forgotten, and Gramlins will do as they please regardless of what actions you take. That actually sounds more like a defeat, or even better, a complete and total waste of your time and resources.
[/quote]

Gramlins will fail. Period. If they choose to claim they failed because they wanted to, they are free to take all the credit. And as for wasting my time and "resources" I have been retired so its not like I am busy. And I am having fun. Makes me want to come back active full time. Oh and sorry your nation got wrecked for mass tech raiding that alliance. If you were not doing crazy stuff like that and this life would be way to dull on Bob. Makes me wonder what to do after Gramlins cave.