The New Grämlins

[Grimm Reaper]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='25 May 2010 - 05:27 PM' timestamp='1274822812' post='2311604']Sure Gre is doing it now ([b]or at least trying[/b]), but they fought on the Karma side so it's cool yo.
[/quote]

Bolded for emphasis. In order to demand crippling terms, you need a little something I call leverage, which, as Turtle Mays implied, GRE lacks. For verily, given a lever long enough and a place to stand, one could move the earth itself. However, with the lever, you're just yelling impotently at the Earth to move. Which could work. See aforementioned dada strategy.

[quote]Works just fine for IRON members.[/quote]

Oh, you and your unsubstantiated assertions!

I'm sure it's just a common sense, though, and REAL Digiterricans will know it's true.

[quote name='Penkala' date='25 May 2010 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1274809939' post='2311394']I think you missed my point.
[/quote]

Yes, your point was that there was a critical mass of nations that Gramlins would never, ever leave that would make this war a nightmare for IRON. As we can see from Jim and CT, this critical mass is a dedicated vanguard indeed. Save us, Penk, from this quagmire of Gramlins non-aggression!

If this war is still going on in 6 weeks, it will be so only nominally and due to their refusal to accept white peace. Black Knight, Monty Python, etc.

[ooc]edit: Sentences that run on and on and on, but soon we will see, there can be only one![/ooc]

Edited May 25, 2010 by Grimm Reaper

[Lord Brendan]

What would be the logic behind attacking CT or Jim?

Gremlins is keeping IRON's upper tier in peace mode just by sitting there, they really have no need to declare wars at the moment.

[Grimm Reaper]

[quote name='King Chill I' date='25 May 2010 - 01:16 PM' timestamp='1274807789' post='2311372']
Never said anything about the terms you offer them. As far as im concerned you can ask for unconditional surrender, PZI them or demand disbandment. I see all of em as valid tools (if you can actually enforce).
[/quote]

I disagree. Unconditional surrender is just a sick, transparent form form of amusement. There is absolutely [b]nothing[/b] to be gained from it unless it's a tool to get to PZI.

This from a purely Machiavellian aspect. Not getting into the 'righteousness' of any of them, as that would be an off-topic mess.

[quote name='King Chill I' date='25 May 2010 - 01:16 PM' timestamp='1274807789' post='2311372'][b]What would be the logic behind attacking CT or Jim?[/b]

Gremlins is keeping IRON's upper tier in peace mode just by sitting there, they really have no need to declare wars at the moment.[/quote]

http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=144512&Extended=1

That's the logic.

He's not just sitting there. I don't think I've ever seen a bank nation get so viciously ignored.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Grimm Reaper

[Grimm Reaper]

Doublepost. My mistake.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Grimm Reaper

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Grimm Reaper' date='25 May 2010 - 08:05 PM' timestamp='1274832295' post='2311770']
http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=144512&Extended=1

That's the logic.

He's not just sitting there. I don't think I've ever seen a bank nation get so viciously ignored.
[/quote]

So he's doing some tech deals and sending a whopping 6M to two IRON nations that are [i]way[/i] below the stalemate line. I don't see that that's anything Gremlins needs to worry about.

They can't prevent all the international aid that you're receiving, so there's no point in them fussing over internal aid either.

[Grimm Reaper]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='25 May 2010 - 09:25 PM' timestamp='1274837095' post='2311867']
So he's doing some tech deals and sending a whopping 6M to two IRON nations that are [i]way[/i] below the stalemate line. I don't see that that's anything Gremlins needs to worry about.

They can't prevent all the international aid that you're receiving, so there's no point in them fussing over internal aid, either.
[/quote]

There are no conclusions here with which I am displeased.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Grimm Reaper

[Lord Brendan]

They're still keeping all but two nations of your upper tier in peace mode without actually having to do anything.

I'm curious what they would do if you all switched to war mode, although I'm not sure I'd be willing to try it if I were you.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='25 May 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1274837095' post='2311867']
So he's doing some tech deals and sending a whopping 6M to two IRON nations that are [i]way[/i] below the stalemate line. I don't see that that's anything Gremlins needs to worry about.

They can't prevent all the international aid that you're receiving, so there's no point in them fussing over internal aid either.
[/quote]

For the record I sent aid to the only IRON nations that requested it after I asked if anyone needed it on the IRON forums. The other aid sent was to satisfy some prior payments due to a donation seller.

[Grimm Reaper]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='25 May 2010 - 09:53 PM' timestamp='1274838791' post='2311905']
They're still keeping all but two nations of your upper tier in peace mode without actually having to do anything.

I'm curious what they would do if you all switched to war mode, although I'm not sure I'd be willing to try it if I were you.
[/quote]

Similarly, I wonder what would happen if GPA were to disband and send all their tech and money as a sacrifice to Cthulhu.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Grimm Reaper' date='25 May 2010 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1274839318' post='2311914']
Similarly, I wonder what would happen if GPA were to disband and send all their tech and money as a sacrifice to Cthulhu.
[/quote]

Err, what?

I think there's a real (if not particularly great) chance that Gremlins would not do anything if you were to all leave peace mode.

[Poobah]

What I find most surprising about any of this is that Christian Trojans is in an alliance at war with Gremlins and he is not being attacked.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='25 May 2010 - 04:37 PM' timestamp='1274819857' post='2311561']
Neither of them have any wars at all. They're just operating in war mode like normal nations in an alliance.
[/quote]
Weren't you a military official? Any nation planning on entering a nuclear war today but wanting to minimize the amount of nuking shouldn't have declared yet.

That being said, if they've been out of peace mode for several days, I dunno.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Poobah' date='25 May 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1274840614' post='2311945']
What I find most surprising about any of this is that Christian Trojans is in an alliance at war with Gremlins and he is not being attacked.
[/quote]


Anyone attacking Christian Trojans should go ahead an attack me too.

[King Chill I]

[quote name='Grimm Reaper' date='25 May 2010 - 08:05 PM' timestamp='1274832295' post='2311770']

http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=144512&Extended=1

That's the logic.

He's not just sitting there. I don't think I've ever seen a bank nation get so viciously ignored.
[/quote]

Why are putting someone else's comments under my name? What is that a new form of creative writing?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='flak attack' date='25 May 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1274841121' post='2311952']
Weren't you a military official?
[/quote]
No, lol.

I was FA, and dabbled a bit in Finance. Currently I'm in Finance.

[quote name='flak attack' date='25 May 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1274841121' post='2311952']
Any nation planning on entering a nuclear war today but wanting to minimize the amount of nuking shouldn't have declared yet.
[/quote]
Quite true.

[quote name='flak attack' date='25 May 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1274841121' post='2311952']
That being said, if they've been out of peace mode for several days, I dunno.
[/quote]
This is exactly the problem with your second sentence.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='25 May 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1274822812' post='2311604']
After all, IRON gave bad terms in the past, so they should be hated forever. Sure Gre is doing it now (or at least trying), but they fought on the Karma side so it's cool yo.
[/quote]


This is not about any terms IRON has given in the past only about what they did to engage this war.

And GRE isn't giving bad terms, nor are we trying to.

This has nothing to do with karma.


[quote name='Grimm Reaper' date='25 May 2010 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1274828324' post='2311715']
Bolded for emphasis. In order to demand crippling terms, you need a little something I call leverage, which, as Turtle Mays implied, GRE lacks. For verily, given a lever long enough and a place to stand, one could move the earth itself. However, with the lever, you're just yelling impotently at the Earth to move. Which could work. See aforementioned dada strategy.[/quote]


GRE is not demanding crippling terms nor do we want to.
This has long been established but I understand why you don't want to read the thread.

[quote name='Grimm Reaper' date='25 May 2010 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1274832295' post='2311770']
I disagree. Unconditional surrender is just a sick, transparent form form of amusement. There is absolutely [b]nothing[/b] to be gained from it unless it's a tool to get to PZI.[/quote]

Unconditional Surrender cannot be a "tool to get to PZI" because it does not and cannot mean that IRON agrees to subsequent unknown terms.
The rationale for the demand has been established but I understand why you don't want to read the thread.

[quote name='Poobah' date='25 May 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1274840614' post='2311945']
What I find most surprising about any of this is that Christian Trojans is in an alliance at war with Gremlins and he is not being attacked.
[/quote]
Yes, it really does take every ounce of our discipline

Edited May 26, 2010 by Matthew PK

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='26 May 2010 - 12:42 AM' timestamp='1274848928' post='2312121']
This is not about any terms IRON has given in the past only about what they did to engage this war.
[/quote]

you mean the exact same tactic you used? Attacking without benefit of a treaty?

[quote]
And GRE isn't giving bad terms, nor are we trying to.
[/quote]

No you've pretty much established the poster child of bad terms, not only are they unpopular enough to generate 170 pages of people telling you so, its been enough of a PR disaster to actually turn IRON's public image from the war completely postive, while killing your public image. And you've managed to go from a war you were winning to a war you can't win that's bleeding you of members, not NS that can come back, but actual membership.


[quote]
GRE is not demanding crippling terms nor do we want to.
This has long been established but I understand why you don't want to read the thread.
[/quote]

Gre won't actually say what the terms are, that's kind of the whole issue here.

[quote]
Unconditional Surrender cannot be a "tool to get to PZI" because it does not and cannot mean that IRON agrees to subsequent unknown terms.
[/quote]

No, that's exactly what it means, in fact that's pretty much the textbook/dictionary definition of the phrase. Your unwillingness to acknowledge reality not withstanding, you are just flat out [i]wrong[/i] with that assertion.

[quote]
The rationale for the demand has been established but I understand why you don't want to read the thread.
[/quote]

Insane people are usually convinced they are making perfect sense and its the rest of the world that is missing out on something. At some point however they are forced to face that fact that they are truly alone in their outlook and admit that they are the ones with the problem. When that happens their rehabilitation can begin.

[mad mike]

any terms offered by gremlins will comply with gremlins codex and what is understood to be "CN law" - that is all.



FYI to those complaining about number of pages.


If you want less pages you can always increase the number of posts per page so you would only be a 88 pages if you go to the max post per page.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='25 May 2010 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1274848928' post='2312121']
GRE is not demanding crippling terms nor do we want to.
This has long been established but I understand why you don't want to read the thread.
[/quote]

Unconditional surrender in of itself is a crippling term. That's what you don't seem to get.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Mad Mike' date='26 May 2010 - 06:39 AM' timestamp='1274852358' post='2312157']
any terms offered by gremlins will comply with gremlins codex and what is understood to be "CN law" - that is all.



FYI to those complaining about number of pages.


If you want less pages you can always increase the number of posts per page so you would only be a 88 pages if you go to the max post per page.
[/quote]


Ohh no, the number of pages does not bother me in the slightest, it's the quality of garbage thats been rehashed and spewed so many times, that I laugh at.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Mad Mike' date='26 May 2010 - 01:39 AM' timestamp='1274852358' post='2312157']
any terms offered by gremlins will comply with gremlins codex and what is understood to be "CN law" - that is all.
[/quote]

Your alliance, its word, its codex, and its reputation are all worth a fart in a vac suit at this point - that is all.

Seriously, I wouldn't trust you with a sippy cup at this point, nobody is going to take your word for anything.



Quantity of discourse is not the problem, rather it underscores the point.

NPO's surrender terms in Karma generated a lesser outpouring, this is indicative of how out of touch with reality Gre has become.

[Yggdrazil]

What Gre fails to understand is most of the nations of Digiterra read the codex too. Most found that Gre's newest interpretation of their own Codex semantic sophistry.You have already violated the Codex by you present demand.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[Clash]

My personal terms for Gremlims' surrender involve them sniffing my armpits, for at least 2 collection cycles, immediately after an hour of me maxing out on the stairmaster. Then, my draconian reparations shall include beer and burgers at a tavern of my choosing. There will be no compromises and no negotiations. Accept them and save yourselves, or find yourselves doomed to something I'll think of later when I care more, that will involve something much worse than merely sniffing the pits.


BTW, the tavern totally needs to be an improvement option.
Double bonuses if you have beer or wine as a resource.

Thank you for your time, and carry on.

[wenwillthisend]

I can honestly say that The Codex means absolutly nothing to Gre, they are just hiding behind it. Oh and I do believe Gre will not sign anything that is classed as a treaty.

Edited May 26, 2010 by wenwillthisend

[Derantol]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='26 May 2010 - 01:55 AM' timestamp='1274864099' post='2312234']
I can honestly say that The Codex means absolutly nothing to Gre, they are just hiding behind it. Oh and I do believe Gre will not sign anything that is classed as a treaty.
[/quote]

I actually have full confidence that The Codex means a lot to them; they interpret it differently than we do, but they stick to what they see. The difference is, as was pointed out a few posts ago, no one in IRON trusts Gramlins; and without a trust of Gramlins, we can't trust any internal documents they present to us.

That said, as I recall, you were recently in Gramlins? I suppose you would know better than I.