A Solution

[Facade]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='20 February 2010 - 12:37 PM' timestamp='1266687477' post='2193793']
I like the naive sense that if we would only get to know each other and talk things out that all the world's problems would be solved. First you have to change hearts. Good luck with that.
[/quote]

Why would you want to solve problems between alliances in CN? War is one of the few things that makes this game fun.

[Baldr]

[quote name='Facade' date='20 February 2010 - 04:08 PM' timestamp='1266703692' post='2194153']
Why would you want to solve problems between alliances in CN? War is one of the few things that makes this game fun.
[/quote]

Maybe we should petition Admin to remove the "Declare War" button....

Then we can all go play some other game.

[Prime minister Johns]

I gave up looking for a reason for this war, right now I am going to keep fighting till I hit ZE (Zero Everything).

There is no reason for this war, no higher purpose, no overall strategy, This is the Götterdämmerung of planet Bob, the alliance leaders have grown bored of this world and now are engaged in one last epic battle to bring about the end to all things. There will be nothing at the end of this war.

[Jyrinx]

Many others have expressed my views on why this won't work already (specifically that lack of communication is probably not what causes most war), but I'd also like to add that this would never work for the times where consultation fails: if two alliances still disagree after talking with/in the council, would the council stop them from going to war? If so, that's dangerously close to a hegemony saying what you can and cannot do which I believe is not what the goal is. If not, then it's impotent and will quickly lose legitimacy in the eyes of the world. Either way a single conflict would tear it apart, especially since other council members would presumably join in the war on the side of their friends.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Jyrinx

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='20 February 2010 - 03:42 PM' timestamp='1266702156' post='2194124']
I never really understood what makes people want to end all war on Planet Bob. It's been a year since there was a war worth talking about. A year. War is an aspect of politics, and every-so-often things will come down to war. Every nation is its own ATM, in the year after this war, every nation will be stronger than it was today.
[/quote]


Okay, who said anything here about ending all war Planet Bob? If anyone actually said that, we seriously need to have a private chat about reality.

[Prime minister Johns]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='21 February 2010 - 07:42 AM' timestamp='1266702156' post='2194124']
I never really understood what makes people want to end all war on Planet Bob. It's been a year since there was a war worth talking about. A year. War is an aspect of politics, and every-so-often things will come down to war. Every nation is its own ATM, in the year after this war, every nation will be stronger than it was today.
[/quote]


Or gone... Every war there are many nations that simply fade into oblivion rather than face several years of rebuilding.

War in moderation is a good thing, but moderation is not something the denizens of Planet Bob are known for.

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='augustus334' date='20 February 2010 - 07:42 AM' timestamp='1266673378' post='2193564']
instead of unnessecary violence
[/quote]

Thank you for proposing something thoughtful and creative.

I've highlighted the above for those people who are complaining about people talking about world peace. It doesn't sound to me like you're suggesting world peace all the time, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[Fantastico]

[quote name='White Chocolate' date='20 February 2010 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1266709721' post='2194250']
Thank you for proposing something thoughtful and creative.

I've highlighted the above for those people who are complaining about people talking about world peace. It doesn't sound to me like you're suggesting world peace all the time, but correct me if I'm wrong.
[/quote]


Good point there. The OP is just looking for some increased dialogue, not world peace.

I've always wondered why we don't send all of our team color senators off to meet somewhere, even if just a formality. After all, we elect Senators from every color sphere except gray, yet we allow them no Senate.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Fantastico

[RePePe]

What you are describing is a sort of "United Nations" organization. This is a failure for several reasons:

1. Such an organization would only thrive if it had power over all of its member alliances, and majority rules. This power would never be granted as each alliance should merely do what is in their best interest.
2. Back room deals, corruption, failure in communication, etc. could all ruin it and render it useless in one strike.
3. The minute an alliance disagreed with what this council instructed it to do, they'd just leave without thinking twice.
4. Can't even get 2 different alliances to agree, what makes you think that 10, 50, 75, or more will?
5. Without war, Planet Bob will cease to rotate on its axis and Admin will develop a twitch.

World peace or large-scale cooperative problem-solving is ideal, but nowhere near realistic.

[Owned-You]

Dear OP, you assume everyone wishes to talk out there problems. Sometimes, it's far easier and much more pleasurable to simply destroy the opposition.

[kulomascovia]

For most people, war is fun only when you're on the winning side.

I do have one solution to the outbreak of global war; have one side of the treaty web join a huge neutral bloc. Members of the bloc will have on treaties except for that bloc. There shall be no military clauses... perhaps I'm getting too creative but I hope something like this would happen.

Also, those who claim that war is fun or that the purpose of their nation is to engage in destructive war are leaders unfit to lead a nation. Who in their right minds would sacrifice their own people just to have a bit of fun?

Edited February 21, 2010 by kulomascovia

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='20 February 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1266713759' post='2194322']
Also, those who claim that war is fun or that the purpose of their nation is to engage in destructive war are leaders unfit to lead a nation. Who in their right minds would sacrifice their own people just to have a bit of fun?
[/quote]

Planet Bob has just gone insane. Those of us who are left just need to duck. You can come hang out in our bomb shelter if you bring some more popcorn. I'm running out

[kulomascovia]

[quote name='White Chocolate' date='20 February 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1266717252' post='2194374']
Planet Bob has just gone insane. Those of us who are left just need to duck. You can come hang out in our bomb shelter if you bring some more popcorn. I'm running out
[/quote]

No fear! My nation has an emergency pop-corn storage facility located in our capital city.

[Fantastico]

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='20 February 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1266713759' post='2194322']

Also, those who claim that war is fun or that the purpose of their nation is to engage in destructive war are leaders unfit to lead a nation. Who in their right minds would sacrifice their own people just to have a bit of fun?
[/quote]

I'd be curious to see how many leaders in the cyberverse truly believe in creeds that find death and destruction to be fun. Sure, there are many who have little regard for the lives of others, but what dominant creed or ideology would find [b]entertainment[/b] in the deaths of their very own citizens and subjects?

Are we still no better than the fabled gladiators and coliseum bench warmers of ancient times? Are we forever trapped in a perpetual age of barbarous death, where men, women and even children are sent to their ends just for the sick pleasures of an unhappy cast of deluded politicians and tinpot dictators?

As of this moment 6,754,939,800 soldiers have perished due to wars on our not-so-fair planet. That figure now exceeds the entire population of the most populous planet in one of our sister planetary systems.

If we do not pause to rethink our ways now, as the OP urges, can we ever?

[Earogema]

[quote name='Fantastico' date='20 February 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1266729406' post='2194602']
I'd be curious to see how many leaders in the cyberverse truly believe in creeds that find death and destruction to be fun. Sure, there are many who have little regard for the lives of others, but what dominant creed or ideology would find [b]entertainment[/b] in the deaths of their very own citizens and subjects?

Are we still no better than the fabled gladiators and coliseum bench warmers of ancient times? Are we forever trapped in a perpetual age of barbarous death, where men, women and even children are sent to their ends just for the sick pleasures of an unhappy cast of deluded politicians and tinpot dictators?

As of this moment 6,754,939,800 soldiers have perished due to wars on our not-so-fair planet. That figure now exceeds the entire population of the most populous planet in one of our sister planetary systems.

If we do not pause to rethink our ways now, as the OP urges, can we ever?
[/quote]
If they didn't like what I do to them, they should revolt. But even when they revolt:
Anarchy - Your citizens are rioting in the streets of your nation. [b]They wish to be ruled by a royal family.[/b]

And what will that royal family do? Oh, we'll send them to die. We'll also simply buy troops that appear from nowhere, their sole duty to die for this nation, either in defense or offense.

When my people show enough intelligence to be treated as people, then I shall consider it.

[Fantastico]

[quote name='Earogema' date='21 February 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1266732675' post='2194663']
If they didn't like what I do to them, they should revolt. But even when they revolt:
Anarchy - Your citizens are rioting in the streets of your nation. [b]They wish to be ruled by a royal family.[/b]

And what will that royal family do? Oh, we'll send them to die. We'll also simply buy troops that appear from nowhere, their sole duty to die for this nation, either in defense or offense.

When my people show enough intelligence to be treated as people, then I shall consider it.
[/quote]

So you lead by opinion polls I see. That is a very dangerous way of leading, especially with all of the questionable polling firms out there. Even when we find a legitimate pollster, when we look at the polling data, we see the methodology is really wacky. Let's assume your people really do want a royal government or even a totalitarian one, does that mean you should give it to them? Are you that desperate to fill your nation's coffers by a unit or two of taxation?

Right now some pollsters are trying to tell my cabinet that our nation desires just that, totalitarianism. Simply unbelievable! Thus, we still keep our democratic institutions the people first desired at our founding since history has shown us, time and time again, that such polls are outliers at best or outright polling fabrications at worst.

As for the soldiers who fight for your nation, I see you also employ mercenaries. There are a lot of them for hire, that's for damn sure! But why should we keep the demand so high? Are they any less human than the rest of us?

[RePePe]

[quote name='Fantastico' date='21 February 2010 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1266729406' post='2194602']
I'd be curious to see how many leaders in the cyberverse truly believe in creeds that find death and destruction to be fun. Sure, there are many who have little regard for the lives of others, but what dominant creed or ideology would find [b]entertainment[/b] in the deaths of their very own citizens and subjects?

Are we still no better than the fabled gladiators and coliseum bench warmers of ancient times? Are we forever trapped in a perpetual age of barbarous death, where men, women and even children are sent to their ends just for the sick pleasures of an unhappy cast of deluded politicians and tinpot dictators?

As of this moment 6,754,939,800 soldiers have perished due to wars on our not-so-fair planet. That figure now exceeds the entire population of the most populous planet in one of our sister planetary systems.

If we do not pause to rethink our ways now, as the OP urges, can we ever?
[/quote]

Yes, I send my citizens to their ends in warfare. I do what I want, when I want, how ever I want. I am the leader of my nation and will have no one else dictate to me how Vittoria is run. This has resulted in the growing power of my nation in the global scene, thus I shall continue.

I will chuckle if one day your citizens, while in attendance to a national peace conference for non-violence, are invaded by the aggressive, warmongering forces of another nation, and trampled upon for refusing to employ violence as self-defense. The irony of it all would be quite delicious.

[Fantastico]

[quote name='RePePe' date='21 February 2010 - 12:57 AM' timestamp='1266735420' post='2194736']
Yes, I send my citizens to their ends in warfare. I do what I want, when I want, how ever I want. I am the leader of my nation and will have no one else dictate to me how Vittoria is run. This has resulted in the growing power of my nation in the global scene, thus I shall continue.

I will chuckle if one day your citizens, while in attendance to a national peace conference for non-violence, are invaded by the aggressive, warmongering forces of another nation, and trampled upon for refusing to employ violence as self-defense. The irony of it all would be quite delicious.
[/quote]

I think you need to read more carefully. I have never condemned the use of violence in defense, or even in righteous offense.

You also sound like you need a hug.

[kulomascovia]

[quote name='RePePe' date='20 February 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1266735420' post='2194736']
Yes, I send my citizens to their ends in warfare. I do what I want, when I want, how ever I want. I am the leader of my nation and will have no one else dictate to me how Vittoria is run. This has resulted in the growing power of my nation in the global scene, thus I shall continue.
[/quote]

What purpose does a nation serve if not to satisfy its citizens? Sacrificing your citizens for global power is unbecoming of a leader.

[RePePe]

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='21 February 2010 - 02:14 AM' timestamp='1266736481' post='2194763']
What purpose does a nation serve if not to satisfy its citizens? Sacrificing your citizens for global power is unbecoming of a leader.
[/quote]

Indeed, this is accurate.

However, sacrificing a minority (soldiers) for the majority (working citizens) to attain a higher status of power satisfies my citizens very much.

[MeltedLazerz]

Remember that this is CN, not RL. The "citizens" is CN are completely non-existent, so who gives a sh*t about them? People fight wars cuz it's fun. Seriously, if world peace lasted more than year, I would quit CN and look for something better to play.

[Fantastico]

[quote name='MeltedLazerz' date='21 February 2010 - 01:17 AM' timestamp='1266736633' post='2194767']
Remember that this is CN, not RL. The "citizens" is CN are completely non-existent, so who gives a sh*t about them? People fight wars cuz it's fun. Seriously, if world peace lasted more than year, I would quit CN and look for something better to play.
[/quote]

Hi, actually, this [i]is[/i] Planet Bob or Digiterra here.

The type of fun you refer to is different than the type of fun leaders like the Valhallan above desire and it belongs in a different discussion area.

It's a common mistake in the discussion here on this topic, so don't feel bad.

[AgentofChaos]

Learn the difference between there and their and then propose solutions.

[Bob Sanders]

[quote name='Fantastico' date='20 February 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1266729406' post='2194602']
I'd be curious to see how many leaders in the cyberverse truly believe in creeds that find death and destruction to be fun. Sure, there are many who have little regard for the lives of others, but [b]what dominant creed or ideology would find [b]entertainment[/b] in the deaths of their very own citizens and subjects?[/b]

Are we still no better than the fabled gladiators and coliseum bench warmers of ancient times? Are we forever trapped in a perpetual age of barbarous death, where men, women and even children are sent to their ends just for the sick pleasures of an unhappy cast of deluded politicians and tinpot dictators?

As of this moment 6,754,939,800 soldiers have perished due to wars on our not-so-fair planet. That figure now exceeds the entire population of the most populous planet in one of our sister planetary systems.

If we do not pause to rethink our ways now, as the OP urges, can we ever?
[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"][b]*Bob Sanders*[/b][/color] raises hand, Number of Soldiers Lost in All Wars. 4,048,741 Attacking + 4,278,814 Defending = 8,327,555 Casualties Casualty Rank: Ranked #3 of 26,202 Nations (0.01%)

Onward and upward I say!!

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='21 February 2010 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1266736481' post='2194763']
What purpose does a nation serve if not to satisfy its citizens? [b]Sacrificing your citizens for global power is unbecoming of a leader[/b].
[/quote]
So be it, I desire blood and I run the place so I will get blood. My citizens were even nice enough to let me out of anarchy today so I could get more blood.

[Fantastico]

[quote name='Bob Sanders' date='21 February 2010 - 04:01 AM' timestamp='1266746462' post='2194877']
[color="#FF0000"][b]*Bob Sanders*[/b][/color] raises hand, Number of Soldiers Lost in All Wars. 4,048,741 Attacking + 4,278,814 Defending = 8,327,555 Casualties Casualty Rank: Ranked #3 of 26,202 Nations (0.01%)

Onward and upward I say!!


So be it, I desire blood and I run the place so I will get blood. My citizens were even nice enough to let me out of anarchy today so I could get more blood.
[/quote]

Rightly or wrongly, one thing I admire about Hawkeyeland is that most of its casualties [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80197&view=findpost&p=2194890"]appear to be from wars of purpose[/url]. While I still find your desire to increase the number who fall for your causes strange, at least they have fallen for causes you believe in, causes that you have defended with words as well as with firepower.

That is very different from some of the newer generations of blood warriors and it is why I still have hope.