King Chill I Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I have no problem with way TOP and IRON attacked CnG (aside from being a bad strategic move). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Diesel Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 So who will be the next to enter the fray, me wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadshot Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 [quote name='John Diesel' date='31 January 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1264966509' post='2148079'] So who will be the next to enter the fray, me wonders. [/quote] That would be me, my friend. Personally, MHA should cancel all their treaties too. Except Harmlins of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Razzia Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 [quote name='shahenshah' date='31 January 2010 - 01:51 AM' timestamp='1264931460' post='2147255'] So basically, Harmlins treaty is above all other treaties hence Gramlins are above all other allies? Good to know. I had a great chat with Pudge, unfortunately I feel there was a gap of interpretation of what we talked about. I continue to hold Pudge in high regards. [/quote] [quote name='Wentworth the Brave' date='31 January 2010 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1264973861' post='2148350'] Personally, MHA should cancel all their treaties too. Except Harmlins of course. [/quote] My thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingClassRuler Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Bob Janova' date='01 February 2010 - 05:32 AM' timestamp='1264962721' post='2147948'] While I can get on board about this attitude, my bolded alteration is all that's needed for it to apply to TOP/IRON as well – pre-empting C&G's entry on the raider side was just a strategic way of helping the Polar coalition win. And yeah, WCR is trying to claim that you guys were 'dragged in' (i.e. obliged to enter). [/quote] Trying? Come on Bob, I think I've been doing a pretty good job. Anyway, there's obviously been a confusion of conversations here. My comment regarding getting dragged in was in response to a TOP criticism of our actions, and I was making the point that it was because of TOP and IRON's actions that brought us here. Regardless of the reason why, it was from their aggressive attack that we entered. Had they not attacked, I believe we would have stayed out, so I found it highly hypocritical for a TOP member to criticize us in that regard. And yes, I do argue that we were obligated to defend but I'm not at all saying that's the only reason why we're here. On the contrary, Ive mentioned several other reasons why - most notably a desire to help our Aqua allies. But that hasn't been the topic of conversation, it's been about treaties and e-lawyering. So allow me to make it clear that apart from those reasons, I believe we joined this war because we wanted to help out CnG. And I have no problem defending that position either, just so that we're clear that the two reasons are not mutually exclusive from each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidMercury Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Working_Class_Ruler' date='31 January 2010 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1264988567' post='2148930'] My comment regarding getting dragged in was in response to a TOP criticism of our actions, and I was making the point that it was because of TOP and IRON's actions that brought us here. Regardless of the reason why, it was from their aggressive attack that we entered. Had they not attacked, I believe we would have stayed out, so I found it highly hypocritical for a TOP member to criticize us in that regard. [/quote] WCR, while I respect you immensely and love MHA, you are misinformed about certain aspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingClassRuler Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Well I can only argue from what I know and feel. If there's information that I am missing that could influence my opinion, I'd be more than happy to hear it - in PM if so desired. But until then, I'll be a dog with a bone when defending our position as I know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidMercury Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Working_Class_Ruler' date='31 January 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1264997729' post='2149530'] Well I can only argue from what I know and feel. If there's information that I am missing that could influence my opinion, I'd be more than happy to hear it - in PM if so desired. But until then, I'll be a dog with a bone when defending our position as I know it. [/quote] Check your messages, if you feel you'd like to get on IRC and discuss things further I'd be happy to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Taco Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Wentworth the Brave' date='31 January 2010 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1264973861' post='2148350'] That would be me, my friend. Personally, MHA should cancel all their treaties too. Except Harmlins of course. [/quote] Not the worst idea I ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='King Chill I' date='01 February 2010 - 04:05 AM' timestamp='1264961138' post='2147889'] LOL i cant believe this is still going. Which part of [b]"we do whatever the $%&@ we want"[/b] are you guys not getting. Treaty or no treaty we will do what we think is right. In this case our friends in MK were attacked and we thought it was right to defend them. You crying about treaties is about as relevant as an abstinence ad at a porn convention. [/quote] Of course you can do whatever the $%&@ you want. I don't see how that really stops people in a public forum from pointing out inconsistencies between your stated policies and your actions though of course (cf http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79461&view=findpost&p=2144570 for example) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necAnt Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Doc Taco' date='01 February 2010 - 06:25 AM' timestamp='1265005549' post='2149976'] Not the worst idea I ever heard. [/quote] maybe you should have ? and hi doc, long time not seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Affluenza' date='31 January 2010 - 12:55 PM' timestamp='1264960537' post='2147868'] Ask MK government how TOP has treated MK not over months...but [i]years[/i]. TOP made an enemy of MK... [/quote] So you guys already viewed TOP as an enemy before they declared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingClassRuler Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 07:24 PM' timestamp='1265012698' post='2150149'] So you guys already viewed TOP as an enemy before they declared. [/quote] Because that would completely justify aggressively attacking them without real provocation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson76 Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Working_Class_Ruler' date='01 February 2010 - 02:30 AM' timestamp='1265013004' post='2150154'] Because that would completely justify aggressively attacking them without real provocation? [/quote] I've given up on this argument, but this really tickled me. Some would say that's exactly what Gre did. I know, I know, paperless friends and convenient definitions and all that, but it's still funny that someone defending an attack on an alliance based on "feelings" would question the validity of someone else's reason for war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingClassRuler Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Stetson' date='01 February 2010 - 08:13 PM' timestamp='1265015589' post='2150182'] I've given up on this argument, but this really tickled me. Some would say that's exactly what Gre did. I know, I know, paperless friends and convenient definitions and all that, but it's still funny that someone defending an attack on an alliance based on "feelings" would question the validity of someone else's reason for war. [/quote] [Insert multiple reasons for joining this war versus unprovoked and opportunistic attack on uninvolved parties] because I, too, tire of repeating myself. Plus if this was TOP's DoW thread and I had made the complaints first, you might have a point, but I am still just responding to other's comments. I'm not whinging about having to do so, but this is the second time now that I've had to explain that I'm merely replying to complaints made by others. As if I somehow have to justify why I'm defending our position when others have criticized it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutterbug Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='LiquidMercury' date='01 February 2010 - 02:20 AM' timestamp='1264990819' post='2149116'] WCR, while I respect you immensely and love MHA, you are misinformed about certain aspects. [/quote] Clearly from what i have seen you say you are misinformed. Dare i mention the fact Crymson was specifically asking us who could hit FARK that wouldnt trigger an MHA counter? Irrelevant maybe seeings as we have since declared in defence of C&G/MK/Gre but it shows the lack of quality in your leadership and how much he wanted to treat us as puppets. Your leadership has screwed up incredibly and yet are still trying to blame others. That ship has long sailed and i'm handing out free mirrors for all TOP members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affluenza Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 08:24 AM' timestamp='1265012698' post='2150149'] So you guys already viewed TOP as an enemy before they declared. [/quote] Not really we just knew that TOP would one day try to take us out. Alot of people in MK actually liked TOP prior to this war...some may still like them. MK never actually went out of it's way to seek out TOP...you have to remember MK has been in this situation before with NPO. As always those that want to bring MK down always throw the first punch. All we did was wait patiently...the rest is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='scutterbug' date='01 February 2010 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1265020846' post='2150227'] Dare i mention the fact Crymson was specifically asking us who could hit FARK that wouldnt trigger an MHA counter? Irrelevant maybe seeings as we have since declared in defence of C&G/MK/Gre but it shows the lack of quality in your leadership and how much he wanted to treat us as puppets. [/quote] I don't think its irrelevant, some have tried claiming TOP only entered to hit CnG, but that they were initially asking about another front on the war I think confirms they entered for their stated CB. Also it shows which side you had already chosen considering Fark was already at war and that TOP wanted to help on other fronts as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1265023646' post='2150245'] I don't think its irrelevant, some have tried claiming TOP only entered to hit CnG, but that they were initially asking about another front on the war I think confirms they entered for their stated CB. Also it shows which side you had already chosen considering Fark was already at war and that TOP wanted to help on other fronts as well. [/quote] How does TOP asking MHA if they can hit their treaty partner show what side MHA had "already chosen"? The fact that they also had plans to hit fark doesn't prove anything. You need to work a bit on your logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='neneko' date='01 February 2010 - 06:42 AM' timestamp='1265024563' post='2150251'] How does TOP asking MHA if they can hit their treaty partner show what side MHA had "already chosen"? [/quote] If MHA was protecting alliances already at war then they were helping a side already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myzebedeeistaken Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Affluenza' date='01 February 2010 - 11:13 AM' timestamp='1265022799' post='2150241'] Not really we just knew that TOP would one day try to take us out. [/quote] Shhh, we're meant to be the paranoid ones Anyways, have fun Haermlins and we'll no doubt have some very interesting conversations about life, the universe and everything at some other point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 12:49 PM' timestamp='1265024983' post='2150253'] If MHA was protecting alliances already at war then they were helping a side already. [/quote] This might surprise you but the MHA - Fark treaty predates this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='neneko' date='01 February 2010 - 06:52 AM' timestamp='1265025140' post='2150258'] This might surprise you but the MHA - Fark treaty predates this war. [/quote] A lot of treaties predate the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 12:55 PM' timestamp='1265025343' post='2150261'] A lot of treaties predate the war. [/quote] You don't see how MHA having a treaty with fark doesn't prove anything about their stance in this war then? They also have a treaty with TOP wich by your logic would prove that they were at the other side. Quite the paradox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingClassRuler Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 [quote name='Myzebedeeistaken' date='01 February 2010 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1265025049' post='2150254'] Shhh, we're meant to be the paranoid ones Anyways, have fun Haermlins and we'll no doubt have some very interesting conversations about life, the universe and everything at some other point. [/quote] Good luck mate, and you can always join us in #mha for a round of poetry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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