Keres Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) His problem is that TPF was to noble enough to surrender. and I guess its a noble act to form an alliance in an attempt to potentially sabotage 3 others... wow... Edited January 2, 2010 by Deathistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havamil Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 You know, I do find it kinda strange. For all their claims that Rok are horrible people, I don't think even one out of the dozen or so alliances that declared last night declared on Rok.Am I the only one that finds this strange? Only the people that don't have a clue to the treaty webs find it strange. I had a picture once of a little kid hiding under his mothers apron making obscene gestures at all the other kids. Ill see if i can find it for ya might help you understand it a bit easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkahoolik Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 and I guess its a noble act to form an alliance to sabotage 3 others... wow... worked for vox... kind'a... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krull Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 i dunno... but you pulled it off... congrats!! o iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Only the people that don't have a clue to the treaty webs find it strange.I had a picture once of a little kid hiding under his mothers apron making obscene gestures at all the other kids. Ill see if i can find it for ya might help you understand it a bit easier SO what you are saying is you are the little kid? I understand it all now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der_ko Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) His problem is that TPF was to noble enough to surrender. If you are too noble to surrender you forfeit the right to !@#$%* and moan about not recieving peace fast enough. Edited January 2, 2010 by der_ko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkahoolik Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 ya know krull, it's because of people like you that there is a need for detailed contracts and technical mambo jumbo. you just said a couple of posts back that your word is useless. so, congrats on that one. now since your word is useless... please go away. some of us still believe in friendship and overrated stuff like that that doesn't need written words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) ya know krull, it's because of people like you that there is a need for detailed contracts and technical mambo jumbo. you just said a couple of posts back that your word is useless. so, congrats on that one. now since your word is useless... please go away. some of us still believe in friendship and overrated stuff like that that doesn't need written words. Congrats, you have shown me that IRON needs to get off the public areas. Good job. Clearly MK has no idea what friendship is Edited January 2, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 If you think that you are going to be on the winning side, you have a poor grasp of figures. There is no problem in principle with TPF demanding reparations for coming under attack, but the fact is that you are not going to get better terms than no terms. Hell, even if you do win, the damage done to your nations (in TPF and in TPF's allies) will far outdo any reparations you can extort.TPF have effectively used their allies' blood (and the blood of non-allies who are also a part of this coalition, notably TOP) to cover for their own stubbornness, when they had the offer of the immediate end of the war on the table. The PR victory they could have taken from being the wronged party (having taken relatively minor damage in the big scheme of things, easily rebuildable by aid from their treaty partners) would have been far greater than the reparations they might have wanted. Now all they will do is suffer a military defeat, probably with worse terms at the end, and take their allies down with them so rebuilding will be harder. Bob, as one of the most rational people on this forum, I am going to outline my version of events, even the uglier parts, as a response to see where it stands in line with your quote above. These are my thoughts, and the opinions are mine, and mine alone, unless I outline specifically that it is someone else's I am attributing. We entered negotiations at around -2Hrs of update, which for all intents and purposes Beernuts and I led. It got off to a very, very, very poor start when Umbrella was asked to mediate, with no question to us whether we approved. As you know, there is a certain history of animosity b/t TPF and Umbrella and when I objected I was essentially ignored. The serious intent of the negotiations was immediately in question. This theme continued with the opening statement from Athens, which was filled with a very long statement about how Athens was wronged and how there were personal (IC) attacks aimed at certain members of Athens' leadership. There was a demand, not in the context of the end-peace, but in the talks themselves, that the TPF'ers in the room admit the veracity of the statement, something we saw as a future log dump, regardless of what the end text said. That opening gambit drove the essential fact that there was no give between positions. We simply were not going to get a peace that was not at the barrel of a gun, at least one I believed we could go forward with and retain our position. A touch of ugliness, and that is that I made the decision to derail things a bit, as you can probably see if you have seen the logs of the event. I did do, and mhawk gets livid with me when I do these things, with the intent of putting Athens' in the short seat, simply to see if they could get back on a track that moved us to a potentially peaceful resolution. The old one step back for two steps forward bit. There was no give in either of our positions for the duration, or at least until LM's CC message had been posted. TPF made an offer of White Peace, end of hostilities an hour before update. We made the same statement with the proviso that it was our "Final Offer" and 2 of the parties agreed, while a third did so conditional on mutually agreeable text. I add the conditional nature of that agreement not to muddy the waters, as I am confident that we truly would have found mutually agreeable text with that party, but to show the fuzziness of the situation. We left the room, as we'd made our Final Offer. I did not believe, that based on earlier behavior, we were going to have an agreement. The DoW's flew and here we are. That in retrospect, one of the parties claims they were about to accept the terms, well, that is truly the question. So, while I will take them at their word, in retrospect, it is also pretty soft timing. Intent is the issue here, something I find, personally painfully ironic. However, as I said, I personally believe that there was an intent to accept our final offer, but it was a very time sensitive situation. The CC announcement was out there, the barrel of the gun was set, and whether Athens, RoK, \m/ and GOD felt the pressure, that is for them to answer. I don't seek anything more than a more clear understanding of the events from my personal perspective. You cannot simply make assertions that we were offered white peace, as a categorical fact. That they were going to offer it, I will say that I believe them, as they've claimed, which is my personal opinion, one that the rest may or may not hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistledown Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 How on Earth can TPF and co. call TPF honorable when they set in motion plans that they thought were incredibly wrong and deserved EZI when Vox did it to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havamil Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 SO what you are saying is you are the little kid? I understand it all now! When is the last time you were able to walk a straight line without falling over? just curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krull Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 ya know krull, it's because of people like you that there is a need for detailed contracts and technical mambo jumbo. you just said a couple of posts back that your word is useless. so, congrats on that one. now since your word is useless... please go away. some of us still believe in friendship and overrated stuff like that that doesn't need written words. Ok, I'll bite. Where exactly did I say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 How on Earth can TPF and co. call TPF honorable when they set in motion plans that they thought were incredibly wrong and deserved EZI when Vox did it to them? Haven't been on Planet Bob long have ya? Cause this is what happens every single time, folks change their morality at the drop of a hat based on who they have paper with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkahoolik Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 If you are too noble to surrender you forfeit the right to !@#$%* and moan about not recieving peace fast i'm pretty sure they didn't last war... now, are you saying that in this war, in which from what i heard they tried to contact the aggressors and couldn't even talk to them they should also shut up for what they did a few months back?? is MK only good at baaaw-ing btw?? cause i see a lot of that going on here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) When is the last time you were able to walk a straight line without falling over?just curious The last time I ran out of liquor. Don't worry though, I was sober enough to drive and get some more. Edited January 2, 2010 by tamerlane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Anglia Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 <3 fireworks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkahoolik Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Ok, I'll bite.Where exactly did I say that? when i asked you if your problem is that they kept their word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 The last time I ran out of liquor. Don't worry though, I was sober enough to drive and get some more. I'd give you a "good man," but the fact remains that you ran out of liquor in the first place and then actually got sober. Do better next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 i'm pretty sure they didn't last war... now, are you saying that in this war, in which from what i heard they tried to contact the aggressors and couldn't even talk to them they should also shut up for what they did a few months back??is MK only good at baaaw-ing btw?? cause i see a lot of that going on here... Really though? Do you even know what happened or are you just making it up off the top of your head? Maybe you should, you know, know what's going on before you talk. And yes, MK is only good at bawwwwing. We have never gone to war, never done anything constructive. All we can do is complain about how IRON posting on the forums has dropped the average IQ here by at least 5 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin32891 Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 If you are too noble to surrender you forfeit the right to !@#$%* and moan about not recieving peace fast enough. You're mad lol? I'm talking about TPF being the last ones to surrender during the Karma War to help the NPO. Don't try to change the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stark Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Only the people that don't have a clue to the treaty webs find it strange.I had a picture once of a little kid hiding under his mothers apron making obscene gestures at all the other kids. Ill see if i can find it for ya might help you understand it a bit easier also is this picture supposed to symbolize you guys hiding from NpO in some way? What I was really trying to say though is that it doesn't make much sense that if you are going to... strategically ignore? an alliance... you probably shouldn't try and use that alliances actions in an attempt to legitimize you war. Because if that's really how you feel, Rok should have been the first alliance you attacked. Instead you're saying "Rok are evil spies, curse you for attacking TPF" - followed by a DoW on every other alliance that attacked TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 i dunno... but you pulled it off... congrats!! You do realize that shilo accused people of denying TPF peace in the Karma war when it was TPF denying the peace? And that is what kicked off this particular exchange? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 We made the same statement with the proviso that it was our "Final Offer" and 2 of the parties agreed, while a third did so conditional on mutually agreeable text. I add the conditional nature of that agreement not to muddy the waters, as I am confident that we truly would have found mutually agreeable text with that party, but to show the fuzziness of the situation. We left the room, as we'd made our Final Offer. I did not believe, that based on earlier behavior, we were going to have an agreement. The DoW's flew and here we are. You assumed you wouldn't reach peace and thus war was declared? That is essentially what you're telling me, which is YOUR mistake for assuming, not the parties who offered clear white peace. I admire your honesty in your post and thus congratulate you. Rarely we see someone with your class posting the truth in situations like these. Even if 2 out of 3 parties were 'definite', as you proclaim, they are all individually sovereign alliances, meaning you don't need 'all three to accept', even though you acknowledge peace would have been attained. Though RoK and friends jumped the gun without diplomacy (which, like you, I acknowledge what I perceive as mistakes), TPF should've held off since white peace was offered, upon your alliance's request, from all three. Though we all can say "But it was time sensitive," what you wished for was offered and all it takes is a "Hold on, don't declare" to your allies if you truly wished for white peace to be obtained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) i'm pretty sure they didn't last war... now, are you saying that in this war, in which from what i heard they tried to contact the aggressors and couldn't even talk to them they should also shut up for what they did a few months back??is MK only good at baaaw-ing btw?? cause i see a lot of that going on here... Two things, TPF did wait until NPO got peace (which is a noble effort nonetheless) and they (with they being TPF) were actually talking with the aggressors when you guys made your declarations of war. EDIT: Clarification. Edited January 2, 2010 by Voodoo Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkahoolik Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Congrats, you have shown me that IRON needs to get off the public areas.Good job. Clearly MK has no idea what friendship is actually, i said that some of you people need to chain friendship with papers because you know you couldn't keep your word. but thank you for putting words in my mouth. much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.