Thistledown

Here's to hoping that TSO will come to TOP's aid, and then TOP and NpO will peace out. It would make a good deal more sense than anything else that's happened here.

It is going to be an interesting day if TOP has more tech than infra. I don't think that's ever been done before. They're about 300k infra away as things stand.

[quote name='sacramento' date='01 February 2010 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1265089916' post='2152366'] my faith in a fair CN is a bit restored after this announcement. Hail Polar. You are an honorable alliance, I have not doubt left in my mind. I came into this war because I agree with your vision of our planet, and I am glad I did. [/quote] A fair CN? Wasn't TOP part of Q? I mean really now. As for this announcement- I don't really care about the sides, I don't care if I get to fight, I am enjoying this war. Now if only TOP and CnG suddenly agreed to white peace...

[quote name='Methrage' date='30 January 2010 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1264908604' post='2146413'] Gre and FCC hit IRON in the Karma War violating that clause, TOP ended up sticking with Citadel anyways in that war and forgave both Gre and FCC. There was much talk of removing that clause and everyone pretty much agreed it wasn't a good clause, although laziness prevailed. [/quote] This is an interesting little defense. I believe- and forgive me if I am wrong- that all of the current Citadel broke the Lux technically, at least in the eyes of OG, by not coming to their defense when they entered and were counterattacked in the Karma War. And let's not forget that TOP did not just attack a Citadel treaty partner, they entered on the opposite side of the war from Umbrella. While the "attacking an ally" clause may have been overlooked, I seem to recall that OG entering on the opposite side from where Citadel was going was considered a cause for expulsion.

We are a fearsome 10-man fighting machine. All look upon us and despair.

So you broke the Lux Aeterna and several other treaties to perform a preemptive strike on people you have deep rivalries with? Guys this war just got awesome.

The Doubtably Just War. It'll certainly be interesting who lands at number one if this escalates a lot.

Yes, people like this who sign treaties with a potentially opposing second on the eve of global war, even if the treaty had been in the works for a while, are scum I'm sure you wouldn't associate with. Wait.

IC: Probably chaotic good, though if there were as many of us as said in this thread this game would be way more interesting OOC: Lawful good, probably. I have some chaotic and neutral, though.

Is it slightly ironic that this made me dislike the CB even more? It's one thing to take a stand against an action. It's another to start setting "community standards" which you can act upon in an unrelated incident. I mean, take \m/ to task for making the action- as well as the others who did it, I might add- but this truly does make you world police. If you're willing to go to war for community standards, will you now seek war against alliances which have spied on other alliances? After all, the community generally accepts that spying is not okay, and as far as I know every alliance agrees, at least outwardly- and "if the community has a standard, if the alliance in question has a standard and then that standard is broken, surely there is an obligation for the community to say something? Polaris is a part of the community is it not?" Punishing them for their actions is one thing, but you are trying to out and out set a moral code for the game. Each alliance must do that for themselves. You can punish them if it's against your values, but you can't try to force them to accept your own.

I'm all for taking action, actually. I like war, and kudos for going for it, though making sure your target was small, contained, and dramatically outmatched sort of cancels that out. I just don't see the how this is a great way to improve morality, if that's honestly what this is all about.

Ah, so Polaris suddenly became opposed to it after Athens did it? Or, in the case of GOONS and PC, it's okay to tech raid an alliance as long as you're nice to Grub? Noted.

Yes, the best possible option is to take a stand against a small alliance with few treaty ties that you have historically been at odds with. That will show people that you really mean business. I dream of a world in which small alliances can be picked off for their moral transgressions while big alliances do whatever the hell they want.

Well, most superheroes don't choose to fight on the same side as the villain... I feel like I am asking to be dogpiled by people who actually read comic books here with contrary examples. And I have to say, the Superman one made me laugh. Twas excellent.

January 20, 2010 1 [622] (-6) Mostly Harmless Alliance : 56.80 --> 56.80 (+0.00) 2 [204] (-4) The Order Of The Paradox : 55.21 --> 54.63 (-0.58) 3 [430] (-5) New Polar Order : 54.17 --> 54.12 (-0.05) 4 [510] (-1) Independent Republic Of Orange Nations : 52.00 --> 52.08 (+0.08) 5 [477] (+4) Sparta : 50.99 --> 51.05 (+0.06) 6 [373] (-2) Orange Defense Network : 40.41 --> 40.50 (+0.09) 7 [300] (-1) Fark : 38.15 --> 37.96 (-0.19) 8 [277] (+2) Green Protection Agency : 36.91 --> 36.99 (+0.08) 9 [653] (-6) New Pacific Order : 36.13 --> 36.01 (-0.12) {178} (+0) Mushroom Kingdom : 33.06 --> 33.13 (+0.07) 10 [337] (-1) Viridian Entente : 31.69 --> 31.17 (-0.52) 11 [234] (+0) FOK : 31.12 --> 31.05 (-0.07) 12 [256] (+1) The Order Of Light : 30.70 --> 30.77 (+0.07) --------------- 13 [206] (-2) World Task Force : 30.04 --> 30.00 (-0.04) 14 [352] (+1) The Democratic Order : 29.25 --> 29.30 (+0.05) ---------- Tier Barrier 1 : 25.70 --> 25.77 (+0.07) 15 [370] (-1) The Legion : 25.55 --> 25.56 (+0.01) [275] (-2) Ragnarok : 25.35 --> 25.35 (+0.00) [308] (-1) Global Alliance And Treaty Organization : 24.60 --> 24.57 (-0.03) [378] (-1) United Purple Nations : 23.61 --> 23.67 (+0.06) {180} (+0) Athens : 22.33 --> 22.40 (+0.07) [231] (+1) Multicolored Cross-X Alliance : 21.43 --> 21.48 (+0.05) ---------- Tier Barrier 2 : 20.70 --> 20.77 (+0.07) {187} (+1) Commonwealth Of Sovereign Nations : 20.67 --> 20.72 (+0.05) [218] (-1) Random Insanity Alliance : 20.02 --> 20.00 (-0.02) {162} (-1) Siberian Tiger Alliance : 18.67 --> 18.67 (+0.00) {59} (+0) The Grämlins : 17.79 --> 17.78 (-0.01) [203] (+0) Federation of Armed Nations : 17.55 --> 17.58 (+0.03) {125} (+1) Nueva Vida : 17.26 --> 17.42 (+0.16) [215] (+0) RnR : 16.99 --> 17.05 (+0.06) {142} (+0) North Atlantic Defense Coalition : 16.74 --> 16.77 (+0.03) {139} (+0) We Are Perth Army : 16.37 --> 16.39 (+0.02) {162} (+1) Nusantara Elite Warriors : 15.89 --> 15.98 (+0.09) {64} (+0) Umbrella : 15.88 --> 15.90 (+0.02) {124} (+1) M*A*S*H : 15.86 --> 15.90 (+0.04) {155} (+2) Invicta : 15.74 --> 15.78 (+0.04) ---------- Add Line : 15.36 --> 15.39 (+0.03) ---------- Drop Line : 15.06 --> 15.09 (+0.03) Statistics Yeah about that Biggest Gainer Nueva Vida (+0.16) Biggest Loser The Order Of The Paradox (-0.58) Passes of the Day M*A*S*H ties Umbrella Commentary Everyone seems to be ghostbusting, the top three alliances lost 15 members combined today, The Order Of The Paradox continues to get close to losing sanction, the Viridian Entente, FOK, and The Order Of Light are all really close because the top green one thereabouts lost half a point, I just used an Oxford comma see if you can find it, we have alliances at 30.00 and 20.00 which is pretty cool if you're easily amused like I am (which I'm guessing you are because you play this game), I am le tired. ---------- Related Links: Stats By Unspeakable Evil Tournament Edition Sanction Race How To Update the Amazing Sanction Race Sanction Race Update Creator spreadsheet: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pFd...rmXWQ&hl=en [/update]

I'll try my hand again. But I cannot guarantee quality. Or admin could just reset the game and save me a few minutes. That would be easier.

Dinosaur Comics makes this treaty announcement an automatic win. Where is Gandalf, for I much desire to speak with him?

Crazy thought man; he may have been commenting on the IC/OOC line.

When most of your nations are fairly small, and most of their nations are small but active, it would actually seem quite the match made in heaven. But hey, let's look at things superficially. Also, may I say that I quite like this protectorate. The upgrade clause is nifty, and you seem like you know what you're doing. Best of luck.

I agree that TPF wasn't ever in an eternal war, and they were foolish to do what they did. However, they obviously felt eternal war was threatened, both to themselves and NPO- and much of the community seemed to agree. As far as reps go- as I said, it's not that NPO doesn't deserve it. I'm simply stating that those heavy punitive reps are part of a pattern where the main players on the losing side are damaged extraordinarily, meaning that people refuse to go into a war they might lose. That could have been changed by not just getting retribution but by perhaps trying to be more generous than the NPO themselves in handing out reps, but with all the different alliances fighting them and all the grudges and fears that was never going to happen. As far as TORN goes, they stuck around for about a day iirc. They didn't exactly do much damage- far less then Athens and Co. recently. And if nothing else, the Blue Balls War showed that people will show up for their allies. It may not have seemed like it with the ridiculous waiting, but they came in the end- and then SC left because they weren't sure about being able to win, not because of allies necessarily but because of the numbers at the top being close. And so they left, not because either sides' allies weren't sticking with them but because it was too dangerous to be caught on the losing side.

I agree that moralism's on the rise, I was just referencing that he thought moralism was in decline and I was saying that wasn't it. And I would agree that lots of reps were quite generous- but NPO, the mover and shaker of things, had heavy reps including the >1k tech stipulation. Lots of those who just go along with things got off easy- but not the ones who actually started the war. And hence, people don't want to start a war. Not saying NPO doesn't deserve those reps, or that they were necessarily bad considering the fears of GW1 2.0, but they helped to stagnate the game. And you remember how the entire last war's defense was that they looked like they were in permanent war because they were told NPO wouldn't get peace? Not saying it's rampant, but it's there for the instigators, or as some see them "warmongers".

I would say that posting your recruitment link is far more awkward, as instead of talking to a few friends who you think might enjoy the game you're telling the entire world that you play CN and they should too, including those social-networking "friends" who would find it ridiculous.

But see, then wars would just last for about a year to knock down the loser a considerable amount. And then they'd be stuck with tremendous reps for interrupting all that growth time. And really, more harmful than the NS is the afteraffects of losing a GW- loss of political status, loss of nations, and the possibility of losing your gov leadership. It's not the mechanics, it's the culture.

Well, there already is a reason to fight for those on your color sphere- you want those trades. More alliances=more efficient and competitive recruitment=more nations=more trades. And I would also say to refute your main point that wars in CN are less frequent for exactly the same reason that they are less frequent in RL- not because of moralism or religion in decline but rather because there is so much to lose. Almost any war has the risk of going global, and with increasingly high reps and high NS nations bashing down others a loss is crippling and potentially deadly, meaning you don't want to go in without knowing you win. Ironically, less harsh terms in Karma could have turned this tide and caused more wars, by saying the war itself is the main punishment- but unfortunately that was not to be, and instead there were more threats of permanent war. Which is sort of sad, really, for the alliances who didn't want that. And as a side note, if I were in the NPO I would be breathing a sigh of relief that the Moldavi Doctrine was repealed- they don't lose face by repealing it themselves and possibly being portrayed as "weak", but they can finally make red a competitive trading sphere.

I have always hidden my shame.