medtech Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I'm just going to go ahead and quote this before Londo has you delete it. I think a member of Athens just stated the CB was bunk. At this point Dodger is only an applicant and only just applied in the last 24hrs and no decision has been made to wether or not to accept him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBone Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 This BS about whether a surrender to Karma constitutes a surrender to Athens is beating around the bush. Athens was not aware of the activities being taken against them and were thus not represented in peace discussions and surrender negotiations. At the time of surrender there were no activities being taken against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilber Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 At this point Dodger is only an applicant and only just applied in the last 24hrs and no decision has been made to wether or not to accept him. My apologies then. I was going off his AA on these boards. A founding member of ZH called it !@#$ then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 You mean An Athens Applicant? You mean a former gov of ZH who was in the know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Well if they were not wanting of TPF's surrender why was TPF forced to surrender to them via the terms presented to them. TPF wasn't forced to do anything. They chose to surrender to the people fighting them. Athens was not among them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Who and how TPF surrendered to isn't really relevent to me, the fact that they created, lost control of and never exposed a sleeper cell is. Again, that was Drunk Monkey's idea, and ZH were the ones that went ahead with it. TPF cut off their relations with ZH shortly after that. Maybe brainstorming how to win an unwinnable war is a big crime in your book, but it's not in most peoples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 It is my opinion that if you make a mess, you clean it up. You don't wait for mummy to slip on it. That gets you the cane. Don't you bring that Brittish stuff here and try and throw me off They cleaned up the mess when they surrendered after the spy ring which did not damage and gathered no information was dissolved. I do not see why TPF would need to disclose an intent to spy that never actually came to fruition in a war that they lost, surrendered, and paid reps for. But maybe that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I feel the need to defend myself, I am not calling anybody out besides ZH. Anybody can be feed a bunch of bull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 You mean a former gov of ZH who was in the know? Oh god ZH dislikes TPF however will the next part of shuru's love saga continue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsoxbronco1 Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I'm just going to go ahead and quote this before Londo has you delete it. I think a member of Athens just stated the CB was bunk. He's not a member of Athens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 TPF wasn't forced to do anything. They chose to surrender to the people fighting them. Athens was not among them. The terms they were presented with and that they needed to accept in order to gain peace required them to surrender to all of Karma, which included Athens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 You mean a former gov of ZH who was in the know? You know, that's an assumption. It's an interesting development, indeed, but everyone is assuming he was actually in the know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Oh god ZH dislikes TPF however will the next part of shuru's love saga continue I'm trying to stay out of this but seriously you are the worst person I've ever seen at quoting something and then posting a "response" that has absolutely nothing to do with what you're quoting. Either you're routinely blindingly ignorant, a moron, or just constantly disingenuous and really suck at spinning things. Whatever it is, just stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 How do you know something that doesn't exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiCkO Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 ya cause its obvious a founder wouldnt know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Oh god ZH dislikes TPF however will the next part of shuru's love saga continue So a founding member of ZH just said that ZH was not fonded by TPF rather drunkmonkey and was not carrying out TPF's orders and you completely ignore it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medtech Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 This debate on if TPF surrenderd to all of Karma or to just the specific ones listed will be a learning lesson for all who come together to fight the good fight. Words will be choosen wiser and I bet there will be alot more debate on "what if's" inturn making terms take a whole lot longer to come to light. They complain now because it takes some a long time to find common ground on reps. Just wait it is only going to get worse because "WHAT IF..............????????????????????" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YohanElus Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Dodger was not a TPF member when the mission was created by mhawk. She was a friend of DM's and we extended the offer for her to join as MoIA in ZH. However, she was not trusted to know about the op and hey, we were right because she left zh a month later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) Dodger was not a TPF member when the mission was created by mhawk. She was a friend of DM's and we extended the offer for her to join as MoIA in ZH. However, she was not trusted to know about the op and hey, we were right because she left zh a month later. That is true I wasn't a member of TPF, but your full of it if your trying to make this out to be more than what it is, if you don't like TPF fight them yourself, don't use your allies, be a man about it. Edited December 29, 2009 by Dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 This debate on if TPF surrenderd to all of Karma or to just the specific ones listed will be a learning lesson for all who come together to fight the good fight. Words will be choosen wiser and I bet there will be alot more debate on "what if's" inturn making terms take a whole lot longer to come to light. They complain now because it takes some a long time to find common ground on reps. Just wait it is only going to get worse because "WHAT IF..............????????????????????" What are you even talking about? It has nothing to do with what ifs. The treaty is clearly worded and Athens was clearly a member of Karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medtech Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 What are you even talking about? It has nothing to do with what ifs. The treaty is clearly worded and Athens was clearly a member of Karma. Yadda Yadda Yadda I'm not going to debate this with you as you are set in your opinion and my statement sets me in mine. See it as you will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBone Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Dodger was not a TPF member when the mission was created by mhawk. She was a friend of DM's and we extended the offer for her to join as MoIA in ZH. However, she was not trusted to know about the op and hey, we were right because she left zh a month later. Hey Yohan...when did you consider this op to be over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennox Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I find it strange that this is even a topic that is being discussed. TPF has come under attack for "alleged" splinter alliance. The claim is that Zero Hour was formed to bring down Athens and others. Let me tell you a little about myself. My first home was Soldier, but due to political issues the alliance disband and I found a new home in the New Sith Order. They were a good bunch, joined mainly because Silenth had invited me and I didn't really feel I had anywhere else to go. I joined on, May 2, 2009 and remained only 10 days leaving on May 12, 2009. I had said the reason was because I didn't like the autmosphere and that is part of the truth, the other part was that I had been invited to help found an alliance and serve as the minister of the internal affairs. Drunk monkey had always been a friend of mine and had helped me while I was incharge of economic's in Soldier. Now he wanted to seperate from his former alliance TPF and made it very clear he wanted to be part of another sphere. Athens was choosen as the protector of ZH. I was the 3rd member to join Zero Hour and I stayed and served as the Minister of the Internal Affairs for a month until I left Zero Hour. At no point durring the expance of my time in Zero Hour was there talk even jokingly of an attack on Athens. Shortly after I left, I went to DF and asked if they would protect a reformation Soldier. They agreed. It wasn't until a few months ago that ZH "cut ties" with me, my good friends weren't as much of friends as I believed them to be. To be honest as one of the first 3 founding members of Zero Hour this idea of a preplanned war against Athens is a load of bull. Anything that was planned happen long before there was ever a Zero Hour and died when with the formation of Zero Hour. Well this is coming from a unique perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 At the time of surrender there were no activities being taken against them. Aren't you the one that gave us the timeline that said quite the opposite? Don't you bring that Brittish stuff here and try and throw me off They cleaned up the mess when they surrendered after the spy ring which did not damage and gathered no information was dissolved. I do not see why TPF would need to disclose an intent to spy that never actually came to fruition in a war that they lost, surrendered, and paid reps for. But maybe that is just me. mhawk disagrees. [00:28] <mhawk> I'm asking why hit pieces, ridicule, spying, were started by an offensive war you started, warrant white peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I want to appeal to Athens and Co. Please let cooler heads provail. If you want to attack somebody attack ZH, they lied to you, feed you their hate, and used you. TPF is innocent, nothing was ever done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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