Announcement from the desk of the custodial engineer third class

[Tick1]

Not that it matter one iota. But this is inaccurate. You were on Global Order of Darkness within the last 2 hours. On GOONs Seniorty list, you are at 0 days. Which means that since update last night you were not on at least one other AA. Its really a minor detail, so one might question why you would lie about it....one MIGHT.

Rush Sykes he changed back too GOONS within the last hour or two after I made a statement regarding his AA within GOD.

His statement was relating to the time that Khyber declared war against him.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Tick1

[white majik]

Its because you dont know me, thats all. One of the zombies tricked me into joining the "Stupid Newb" AA last night and proceded to take screen shots >.< Feel free to confirm with them. It was pretty funny watching the ANS of that AA increase by over 10x

[KinKiac]

I have to justify nothing. RLMMO clearly states their policy of dealing with pissant tech raiders is to nuke them and their friends. Nuclear attack.

Your people knew the risks. Those were clearly stated. Just because we don't cowtow to your bullying doesn't make you right. You declared war on US.

While I can see where you are coming from, in the end, as many have pointed out you are not going to cause any damage. These alliances are at NO risk. They risk nothing and you risk it all. I do not agree with tech raiding, but I also dont agree with attacking a nation that did not attack me or my alliance mates. It does not matter if the nation who attacked me or my alliance mates is in an alliance, if his entire alliance is not actually attacking me or my alliance, then i have no beef with them. I do have a beef with the nation attacking me, however. That is who i am going to hit, not his buddies and not other guys in his alliance, for one he could have just been ghosting, which would have meant that it had nothing to do with said alliance.

Anyway, the point I want to make is that you should have learned something by now and here it is: When someone raids you and is in an alliance, in most cases the alliances that approves of tech raiding have policies that state if you "bite of more than you can chew", you are on your own. Therefore, if you had wanted to punish the raiders for their "immoral" behavior, the best way to do it would have been to triple team the guys attacking you, and only them. You would have actually stood a chance and would have done enough damage to the attacker to make him think twice before trying to raid your alliance again. If you had gone ahead and made it all public, as you have done here, you would have also deterred others from tech raiding your alliance, save for an alliance that decides to organize an alliance wide tech raid anyways. 15 guys doesnt do much to deter a 100 man alliance if it were to really come to that. But, that doesnt happen very often as it is kinda frowned upon by most of CN, even more so than raiding in general.

In the end, a 15 man alliance CAN NOT DO ANY SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE to a 100 man alliance, the math just isnt on your side. 15 nations can however, can do a lot of damage to 3 guys, the guys who originally attacked your alliance. If you really want to make a stand next time, keep this in mind. The 15 of you could have possibly nuked the !@#$ out of your raiders and done a heck of a lot more to deter future raiding than this stunt will ever accomplish.

[Tick1]

While I can see where you are coming from, in the end, as many have pointed out you are not going to cause any damage. These alliances are at NO risk. They risk nothing and you risk it all. I do not agree with tech raiding, but I also dont agree with attacking a nation that did not attack me or my alliance mates. It does not matter if the nation who attacked me or my alliance mates is in an alliance, if his entire alliance is not actually attacking me or my alliance, then i have no beef with them. I do have a beef with the nation attacking me, however. That is who i am going to hit, not his buddies and not other guys in his alliance, for one he could have just been ghosting, which would have meant that it had nothing to do with said alliance.

Anyway, the point I want to make is that you should have learned something by now and here it is: When someone raids you and is in an alliance, in most cases the alliances that approves of tech raiding have policies that state if you "bite of more than you can chew", you are on your own. Therefore, if you had wanted to punish the raiders for their "immoral" behavior, the best way to do it would have been to triple team the guys attacking you, and only them. You would have actually stood a chance and would have done enough damage to the attacker to make him think twice before trying to raid your alliance again. If you had gone ahead and made it all public, as you have done here, you would have also deterred others from tech raiding your alliance, save for an alliance that decides to organize an alliance wide tech raid anyways. 15 guys doesnt do much to deter a 100 man alliance if it were to really come to that. But, that doesnt happen very often as it is kinda frowned upon by most of CN, even more so than raiding in general.

In the end, a 15 man alliance CAN NOT DO ANY SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE to a 100 man alliance, the math just isnt on your side. 15 nations can however, can do a lot of damage to 3 guys, the guys who originally attacked your alliance. If you really want to make a stand next time, keep this in mind. The 15 of you could have possibly nuked the !@#$ out of your raiders and done a heck of a lot more to deter future raiding than this stunt will ever accomplish.

This topic pretty much ended about 3 hours ago, maybe if you read the thread you'd know that.

[ChimpMasterFlash]

This topic pretty much ended about 3 hours ago, maybe if you read the thread you'd know that.

And yet you are here I'm sorry I just had to

[shayde]

The bio of the nation we raided didnt say anything about nuking anyone so yeah

The only one. The rest were clearly marked as such.

The more y'all split hairs, the more it looks like a baldfaced lie.

Oh, and to whoever compared the goons to an STD... no truer words have been spoken here in years.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Shayde

[shayde]

Clearly RLMMO should have went to the raiders and accepted a token sum of cash to allow their soveriegnty to be stomped all over. After all, this is the "accepted practice" on this planet. Every time any situation arises on this planet, people rush into the discussion seeking to wrap everything up to into a nice neat little package as to how it should be dealt with. I, for one, applaud this course of action by RLMMO. Entities outside of RLMMO have no business whatsoever imposing their "standards" on RLMMO, or anyone else for that matter. It is not a stretch, nor an unreasonable conclusion, in the eyes of RLMMO, given who the raiding alliances were, that they would be summarily dismissed. It seems reasonable to me, that RLMMO believed that so long as they fell into the raiding alliances' "accepted" size to be ok for raids, that more raids would be in their future. I believe that RLMMO felt that this was the only logical course of action. Of course, most people won't bother to take an impartial look at it, because, they did not follow the "standards." And, we all know, that "standards" are a must.

Watching all of the boasting of the military prowess by the side that has numbers almost Hegemonomical-like on their side, is both classy and reminiscent...which is a good thing...it is always good to remind the world of why things happen as they do. That being said, carry on with your war.

Final note, to all of those people using ROFL, or LMMAO..Or any of the other disrespectful twistings on RLMMO's name, show just a little bit of class and respect. You are neither cute, nor funny.

Very well put.

Honestly, with the lousy reputation of Goons, anyone on planet Bob would know what their response for the succession of hostilities would have been. Anyone would have known the response any diplomacy in any form would have been.

"Shut up and keep getting raped until we tire of you"

The only recourse we have is to do as much damage as we can until we can no longer do damage.

We're in Serenity Valley here. We fight because it is just, and we have nothing to lose.

[ChimpMasterFlash]

The only one. The rest were clearly marked as such.

The more y'all split hairs, the more it looks like a baldfaced lie.

Oh, and to whoever compared the goons to an STD... no truer words have been spoken here in years.

The context in which we were called an STD was positive and well taken by GOONS. Thank you for the compliment. I guess since no truer words have been spoken, the rest of what was said in the statement must also be true.

[Sardonic]

The only one. The rest were clearly marked as such.

The more y'all split hairs, the more it looks like a baldfaced lie.

Oh, and to whoever compared the goons to an STD... no truer words have been spoken here in years.

We've been called worse.

[Sardonic]

Very well put.

Honestly, with the lousy reputation of Goons, anyone on planet Bob would know what their response for the succession of hostilities would have been. Anyone would have known the response any diplomacy in any form would have been.

"Shut up and keep getting raped until we tire of you"

The only recourse we have is to do as much damage as we can until we can no longer do damage.

We're in Serenity Valley here. We fight because it is just, and we have nothing to lose.

You could have gotten a protectorate from somebody, good luck getting one while you're at war now though.

[shayde]

There is that word plan again. I dont see anywhere where I said they had a plan. I said they arrived at a not so illogical decision that this was the only means they had to defend themselves.

We had a plan.

"If some moronic alliance raids us we do as much damage as we can to them and make them pay for every ounce of tech they take"

And honestly, now that all the attackers have been nuked, mission accomplished. If I get the chance to nuke another tomorrow... it's a great day. They've paid in blood and treasure much more than what they've gained.

Making self-important morons piss and whine, now that's the gravy. Not playing by your imaginary rules? That's a steaming plate of ROFLwaffles.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Shayde

[lamuella]

Very well put.

Honestly, with the lousy reputation of Goons, anyone on planet Bob would know what their response for the succession of hostilities would have been. Anyone would have known the response any diplomacy in any form would have been.

"Shut up and keep getting raped until we tire of you"

The only recourse we have is to do as much damage as we can until we can no longer do damage.

We're in Serenity Valley here. We fight because it is just, and we have nothing to lose.

In the past month alone I can count four incidents where one of our members raided someone, they came to us, and got peace. Ask the Democratic Armed Alliance of Nations, The Prussian Empire, the Fellowship of Elite Allied Republics, or the Democratic Order of Anarchy. All you're doing here is making yourself look ignorant.

[Sardonic]

We had a plan.

"If some moronic alliance raids us we do as much damage as we can to them and make them pay for every ounce of tech they take"

And honestly, now that all the attackers have been nuked, mission accomplished. If I get the chance to nuke another tomorrow... it's a great day. They've paid in blood and treasure much more than what they've gained.

Making self-important morons piss and whine, now that's the gravy. Not playing by your imaginary rules? That's a steaming plate of ROFLwaffles.

Whatever helps you sleep at night broheim, we can do this a lot longer than you can.

[shayde]

If you really want to make a stand next time, keep this in mind. The 15 of you could have possibly nuked the !@#$ out of your raiders and done a heck of a lot more to deter future raiding than this stunt will ever accomplish.

Dude. If there wasn't a 24 hour cooling off period, we'd have nuked them all yesterday.

We had to do it today. We did to all our attackers (or are in the process of launching)

We'll continue until we run out.

That was the plan, still is the plan. The fun-with-their-feigned-outrage is just the sideshow.

[ktarthan]

Very well put.

Honestly, with the lousy reputation of Goons, anyone on planet Bob would know what their response for the succession of hostilities would have been. Anyone would have known the response any diplomacy in any form would have been.

"Shut up and keep getting raped until we tire of you"

The only recourse we have is to do as much damage as we can until we can no longer do damage.

We're in Serenity Valley here. We fight because it is just, and we have nothing to lose.

Okay so. You do not wish to be raided. Gotcha. When exactly, when you were thinking about ways to respond to raids did you think "suicide run against two larger alliances" was a good idea?

Net result of being raided: loss of resources from the targeted nation.

Net result of being rolled: loss of many many resources from pretty much every nation.

When the first result is undesirable, how does it follow that the second is better?

If your reasoning is to perhaps teach GOONS a lesson, or to deter us from raiding, you obviously don't know much about GOONS. (Tee hee I finally got to say that! B))

If otherwise, I would love to hear it, because so far I have not been able to discern a decent motivation to your actions, other than showboating.

[Felix von Agnu]

Okay so. You do not wish to be raided. Gotcha. When exactly, when you were thinking about ways to respond to raids did you think "suicide run against two larger alliances" was a good idea?

Net result of being raided: loss of resources from the targeted nation.

Net result of being rolled: loss of many many resources from pretty much every nation.

When the first result is undesirable, how does it follow that the second is better?

If your reasoning is to perhaps teach GOONS a lesson, or to deter us from raiding, you obviously don't know much about GOONS. (Tee hee I finally got to say that! B))

If otherwise, I would love to hear it, because so far I have not been able to discern a decent motivation to your actions, other than showboating.

To me it appears they want to retaliate to attacks on their alliance. The second result at least allows them to go out in a blaze of glory rather than each individual nation sitting in fear of getting raided.

[ktarthan]

To me it appears they want to retaliate to attacks on their alliance. The second result at least allows them to go out in a blaze of glory rather than each individual nation sitting in fear of getting raided.

But I can't understand the extreme escalation.

I was tech raided as a small nation. I got aid from my allies. I proceeded to reduce the raiding nation to embers. It was cathartic. It was fun.

Also I don't buy the "sitting in fear of getting raided" bit. If they are in a position where tech raiding is common, then change your situation. If you do not want to take steps to secure your nation, then it is naught but your own fault.

Maybe I like to play in traffic, but I don't like having to worry about getting hit by cars, so I'm going to go throw myself in front of the next one?

[Felix von Agnu]

But I can't understand the extreme escalation.

I was tech raided as a small nation. I got aid from my allies. I proceeded to reduce the raiding nation to embers. It was cathartic. It was fun.

Also I don't buy the "sitting in fear of getting raided" bit. If they are in a position where tech raiding is common, then change your situation. If you do not want to take steps to secure your nation, then it is naught but your own fault.

Maybe I like to play in traffic, but I don't like having to worry about getting hit by cars, so I'm going to go throw myself in front of the next one?

As far as getting aid when tech raided, some alliances will throw a stink if a nation one of their members hit gets aid.

Sitting in fear of being tech raided could be rephrased to, "Sitting and letting other alliances attack members one by one."

The traffic analogy kind of falls short a bit too. Here is the way I would kind of say it: RLMMO is a group of people on a sidewalk by a busy street. Suddenly, a person in a van drives by and hits one with their door. In retaliation, the rest of the group try and dogpile the van. Sure it's not going to work, but the sudden escalation was just a way to fight back against the raiding. The Van may win in the end, but it'll have a few dings.

[white majik]

Didnt we finish this a few hours ago? I would also like to know exactly how many GOONS were nuked compared to the number of Kronos Nations. Just for the LULZ of course

[lamuella]

As far as getting aid when tech raided, some alliances will throw a stink if a nation one of their members hit gets aid.

Sitting in fear of being tech raided could be rephrased to, "Sitting and letting other alliances attack members one by one."

The traffic analogy kind of falls short a bit too. Here is the way I would kind of say it: RLMMO is a group of people on a sidewalk by a busy street. Suddenly, a person in a van drives by and hits one with their door. In retaliation, the rest of the group try and dogpile the van. Sure it's not going to work, but the sudden escalation was just a way to fight back against the raiding. The Van may win in the end, but it'll have a few dings.

yeah, except that the end result of this war is much more likely to be that the base of our alliance is energized. As a group, we're bored in peace and excited in confrontation. whatever "dings" there are will be outweighed by the people in our alliance who have just become more active and enthused thanks to the war.

I suppose what I'm saying is thanks RLMMO

[ktarthan]

As far as getting aid when tech raided, some alliances will throw a stink if a nation one of their members hit gets aid.

Sitting in fear of being tech raided could be rephrased to, "Sitting and letting other alliances attack members one by one."

The traffic analogy kind of falls short a bit too. Here is the way I would kind of say it: RLMMO is a group of people on a sidewalk by a busy street. Suddenly, a person in a van drives by and hits one with their door. In retaliation, the rest of the group try and dogpile the van. Sure it's not going to work, but the sudden escalation was just a way to fight back against the raiding. The Van may win in the end, but it'll have a few dings.

I wasn't trying to encapsulate the entire conflict with my analogy, I was simply trying to point out that when you go against standard conventions, you do not deserve sympathy. I don't think RLMMO is asking for sympathy, but plenty of people seem far too willing to give it.

Past that, I think it's a lacking analogy, and I feel my nerd analogy earlier in the thread is much more suiting.

All I am trying to figure out, in RLMMO's words, what possible reason they could have for retaliating in such a way? I know that it is their stated 'policy' to take such an action, but I can't fathom why.

[lamuella]

I wasn't trying to encapsulate the entire conflict with my analogy, I was simply trying to point out that when you go against standard conventions, you do not deserve sympathy. I don't think RLMMO is asking for sympathy, but plenty of people seem far too willing to give it.

Past that, I think it's a lacking analogy, and I feel my nerd analogy earlier in the thread is much more suiting.

All I am trying to figure out, in RLMMO's words, what possible reason they could have for retaliating in such a way? I know that it is their stated 'policy' to take such an action, but I can't fathom why.

they think it will deter raiding, because the raiders they have dealt with in the past have been from alliances that would have been severely hurt (both by infra and by the squealing of members) by all out kamikaze attacks from 15 nations fighting without limits. We're meant to soil ourselves and then negotiate with them from a position of weakness so as to stop these angry hornets from stinging our peace-loving membership.

Or at least, that's how I'm reading it.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Lamuella

[ktarthan]

they think it will deter raiding, because the raiders they have dealt with in the past have been from alliances that would have been severely hurt (both by infra and by the squealing of members) by all out kamikaze attacks from 15 nations fighting without limits. We're meant to soil ourselves and then negotiate with them from a position of weakness so as to stop these angry hornets from stinging our peace-loving membership.

Or at least, that's how I'm reading it.

See, that's how I'm reading it as well... but I have a hard time comprehending it that way. I just can't imagine anyone (or a collection of people) being so... what's that word? Stupid?

[lamuella]

I wouldn't go that far. I think they're just not used to our style of play

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

I think you both are getting it wrong: the goal is mostly to take a stand and say enough is enough. I don't know how GOONS, specifically, operate but most tech raiding "negotiations" usually end up in a settlement, with some reps being paid to the victim, a symbolic 3m or 6m$. Not only is it less than the damage taken (by a good margin, often times), it also gets annoying when you are repeatedly raided and you're told, everytime, that you will have to take that stipend or get nothing at all.

From that point on, the only way to get your point across is to retaliate. If not, you're essentially painting a target on yourself, a big red target that says: "come take my land and my tech, we won't do anything about it".

You are not really the guys they want to influence even if I bet they will get their point across and, in the future, you will not raid them. The damage they do on your nations is much more important: it says to all raiders that they can expect the same kind of retaliation in the future.

You may say that they are taking much more damage in the process. Sure, it's a fact. But they'll also deal a good lot of damage, what ammounts to a very costly "tech raid" in the end. Few alliances are willing to risk losing a couple hundred thousands NS over a tech raid, you know.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Yevgeni Luchenkov