Recognition of war

[Angrator]

I hope I'm not going overboard on this, but seeing as some people can't read I'll post it for you.

[Delta1212]

Just goes to show that the Force also finds this hilarious if filth Sith are agreeing with Jedi.

That's because the situation is hilarious. I found it extremely amusing until people started taking it seriously, because trying to pass this off as serious is ridiculous and really annoying. People need to learn to let things be what they are. The amount of effort being put into trying to spin something that is very obviously just people having fun into a serious war is incredible.

[Penkala]

Sorry that's not going to cut it. You've been irritating everyone for hours and you need to give more of an apology than that.

Delta doesn't need to apologize to anyone.

[Delta1212]

Delta doesn't need to apologize to anyone.

Thank you for your concern, but I can take care of myself.

[Ivellios]

RAD will burn for this

[Bob Janova]

The wiki is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid. Its purpose is to attempt to portray your alliance the way that you'd like for it to be seen.

These two sentences contradict each other. In fact they are both wrong, as the wiki is neither an encyclopaedia nor a shop window for alliances – it's an inaccurate and outdated mish-mash of things that people thought about other things. Really, the wiki is not a good source of information unless you have no other place to go, particularly for current affairs (it is not bad on historical events in general).

The way to find out who is in government, and how to get a diplomatic resolution, is to ask on IRC. However, since NSO never had any intention of getting a diplomatic resolution (otherwise they would have got one in about five seconds), that's why you don't know who is in RAD's government. (Forums are often out of date too – I don't know who is supposedly in our government through Wiki or forum, but they are probably not even in the alliance any more.)

[RandomInterrupt]

The tech's cheaper that way

I don't really understand why it's such good behaviour for an alliance that has a huge numerical and NS advantage to have a non nuclear war. You do almost as much damage to the opposition, and also make much larger gains in land and tech. Yes, it makes perfect sense for NSO (once they've decided to fight this unnecessary war) to pressure RAD into a non-nuclear conflict (just as it did the hegemony for so long) – but out of their own self-interest, not because it's really 'better'.

A week of non-nuclear 1v3 (or more, if RAD actually try to fight back) war is a 'rolling' – unless you're going for the brutality of the 20 day nuclear collection, the back of an alliance is broken in 7 days in many cases, particularly with a large advantage. (The Polar front of the 2008 war was over after one cycle, for example. IRON in the Karma war took more like two cycles, as they had a very strong top tier.)

So... you'd of prefered the NSO to go nuclear then? You folks really are impossible to please. I will note that the next time I have an engagment with the Gremlins I should be sure to go full nuclear right away, as that is how you would prefer us to go.

The NSO didn't take it nuclear because that would be an overreaction. Nukes do a lot of damage buddy. So for the NSO to do extra damage where no extra is needed would be poor form. You are correct that nukes benefit the smaller party, and RAD is certainly free to use them. Of course, that means the NSO will reciprocate and then RAD takes damage they didn't need to.

So really the problem here is you can't understand that this isn't a beatdown war. This isn't anything like the Hegemony tech raids you have mentioned. When your Hegemony attacked a tiny alliance, said tiny alliance should have used nukes to do as much damage as possible as they were sure to be saddled with heavy tech reps, viceroys, etc. RAD will be free and clear after a week. So why would they want to trade a week of war for a full nuclear engagement?

If RAD desires to just get this over with, take their licks, and move on (which is exactly what they have stated they want to do) then it IS in their best interest to keep the nukes at bay.

[King DrunkWino]

That's because the situation is hilarious. I found it extremely amusing until people started taking it seriously, because trying to pass this off as serious is ridiculous and really annoying. People need to learn to let things be what they are. The amount of effort being put into trying to spin something that is very obviously just people having fun into a serious war is incredible.

I find the people taking it seriously to be rather hilarious in their own right.

[Bob Janova]

So for the NSO to do extra damage where no extra is needed would be poor form.

Ah so that's why they're declaring war ... wait, what?

[Penkala]

Thank you for your concern, but I can take care of myself.

Thank you for your concern, but I pride myself as being the only one to be allowed to call you an idiot

Stupid NSO infringing on my turf.

Edit: for all these things from NSO about places that say who's gov and who's not, why not just look at masks which are really the only thing that's ever update immediately? Why would you disregard masks and think that a month-old post, or a never-changed bio, or a months-old wiki would be more accurate?

Edited August 15, 2009 by Penkala

[astronaut jones]

An "encyclopedia".

Heh.

Fine then, it's an "encyclopedia" with a history of being very questionably accurate. And often quite a ways behind the present day.

So...knowing those things as you apparently do, why trust it?

because his nation bio said he was government.

No matter how people want to spin it, there was ample evidence to suggest that jason8 really was still a leader (though not THE leader, as I thought until this thread) of rad. Couple that with the fact that RAD all but declared war on everyone just prior to jason8 actually declaring war on a member of NSO, and then again couple that with the fact that jason8, although originally not attacking, finally doing so, and you have a pretty convincing argument that RAD deserves this. And if you can't be convinced at that, you'll probably agree that RAD, at the very least, $%&@ed up big time due to this severe lapse in good judgement.

If RAD declares war on everyone, then, if what people are saying is true that they were baited into attacking, why would you allow yourselves to be baited into attacking?

RAD is at fault here. They were called on their bluff, and now they're paying the price.

[edit:]

If people could put their biases aside for a moment, and objectively look at what's gone on here, they'll see that RAD really did screw up. Mostly though, what I see, is people replying along party lines. It's perfectly alright to accept and acknowledge that an alliance made a mistake and now they're paying the price for that mistake, instead of trying to shift blame.

Edited August 15, 2009 by astronaut jones

[flak attack]

So... you'd of prefered the NSO to go nuclear then? You folks really are impossible to please. I will note that the next time I have an engagment with the Gremlins I should be sure to go full nuclear right away, as that is how you would prefer us to go.

This makes me wonder, when was the last time Gre fought a non-nuclear war? GW3?

[Tom Litler]

These two sentences contradict each other. In fact they are both wrong, as the wiki is neither an encyclopaedia nor a shop window for alliances – it's an inaccurate and outdated mish-mash of things that people thought about other things. Really, the wiki is not a good source of information unless you have no other place to go, particularly for current affairs (it is not bad on historical events in general).

The way to find out who is in government, and how to get a diplomatic resolution, is to ask on IRC. However, since NSO never had any intention of getting a diplomatic resolution (otherwise they would have got one in about five seconds), that's why you don't know who is in RAD's government. (Forums are often out of date too – I don't know who is supposedly in our government through Wiki or forum, but they are probably not even in the alliance any more.)

I'm frankly tired of arguing with people like you about this. If you don't care enough to update your wiki entries or forums, don't complain when people read them and act.

If you shouldn't be expected to keep publicly available sources of information up to date, why should I be expected to choose your preferred mode of action and run around IRC?

Your argument amounts to "You can't trust the wiki. That's just how things are." Well, I expect for the wiki to be up to date and that is also how things are and if you get pummeled because you were too damn lazy to spend a minute to update your government roster then too bad.

I'm not a waiter to run around catering to you.

[RandomInterrupt]

Ah so that's why they're declaring war ... wait, what?

You aren't this stupid, so why are you acting this way. Someone attacked the NSO. So they defended themselves. That doesn't mean they need to go for complete annihilation of their attacker.

When someone breaks into your home, it is possible to protect yourself without killing them. With this act, the NSO has made it clear that you can not just attack their nations because you think it would be funny. At the same time they don't see the need to ruin RAD over it. There are cases where war can be used without the intent of killing the opposing force you know.

I realize that as a former Hegemony member, and as someone that gleefully destroyed alliances for minor/nonexistent infractions this may be hard to grasp. But some of us are capable of moderation and realizing that there is a middle path to most things. Just because in your prime all enemies had to be curb stomped doesn't mean it has to be that way forever. The NSO understands this. Perhaps one day you will open your eyes and see it as well.

[Penkala]

This makes me wonder, when was the last time Gre fought a non-nuclear war? GW3?

Yeah, I believe it was GW3. I think Gremlins has some kind of Nuclear Doctrine that they go nuclear every time now.

Someone ground attacked a member of NSO who asked to be attacked, twice, and offered peace. So they declared war against the entire RAD alliance without attempting a peaceful resolution or talking to gov.

I fixed it with you, with a whole bunch of pesky things called facts.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Penkala

[RandomInterrupt]

This makes me wonder, when was the last time Gre fought a non-nuclear war? GW3?

Probably been a while. But I've filed it away regardless. If somehow my alliance were to get into a minor conflict with them, I would ensure that we did as much damage to them even if a small slap on the wrists is all that would otherwise be needed. It's what they would want us to do.

[Corinan]

RAD will burn for this

No they won't. Not really.

[Bob Janova]

You aren't this stupid, so why are you acting this way. Someone attacked the NSO. So they defended themselves. That doesn't mean they need to go for complete annihilation of their attacker.

You aren't this stupid either . Someone did not 'attack the NSO', or at least not in the way that saying that implied, and military defence was not necessary. This is not a case of defending the alliance from a massive attack. It was one war declared as a result of a joke which Anthony seemed to be participating in, and the 'defence' is doing far more unnecessary damage than if NSO had simply said 'Excuse me, joke's over, peace out now'. It's not even as if RAD pulled the NSO into the joke against their will, since several NSOers were asking to be attacked.

as someone that gleefully destroyed alliances for minor/nonexistent infractions this may be hard to grasp

Okay I'm biting on that bait – examples please? You should know by now that I don't and never have supported that.

This makes me wonder, when was the last time Gre fought a non-nuclear war? GW3?

Yes. In both the last two wars (Polar and Karma) we were debating what to do when the other side nuked us, and we didn't fight in the UjW or the other wars between GW3 and Polar/Hyperion. (Well technically we had a minor engagement with NoV but I think that doesn't really count as a war. I don't remember if that was nuclear.)

[astronaut jones]

Yeah, I believe it was GW3. I think Gremlins has some kind of Nuclear Doctrine that they go nuclear every time now.

I fixed it with you, with a whole bunch of pesky things called facts.

Yet RAD had previously declared war on virtually everyone, with their declaration against the OWF.

They deserve this. At the very least, this was a huge lapse in judgement on RAD's part, as anyone should know that NSO and Ivan in particular don't play around, yet they decided it would be a good idea to play around with them.

[astronaut jones]

You aren't this stupid either . Someone did not 'attack the NSO', or at least not in the way that saying that implied, and military defence was not necessary. This is not a case of defending the alliance from a massive attack. It was one war declared as a result of a joke which Anthony seemed to be participating in, and the 'defence' is doing far more unnecessary damage than if NSO had simply said 'Excuse me, joke's over, peace out now'. It's not even as if RAD pulled the NSO into the joke against their will, since several NSOers were asking to be attacked.

Okay I'm biting on that bait – examples please? You should know by now that I don't and never have supported that.

Yes. In both the last two wars (Polar and Karma) we were debating what to do when the other side nuked us, and we didn't fight in the UjW or the other wars between GW3 and Polar/Hyperion. (Well technically we had a minor engagement with NoV but I think that doesn't really count as a war. I don't remember if that was nuclear.)

You're assuming that everyone should handle "diplomacy" by the same rules you would handle diplomacy.

[King DrunkWino]

They deserve this. At the very least, this was a huge lapse in judgement on RAD's part, as anyone should know that NSO and Ivan in particular don't play around, yet they decided it would be a good idea to play around with them.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they deserved this. If you think about it, folks rarely get what they deserve. It's a get what you get kinda world when you get down to it.

At any rate, this is about as simple as eating bacon. RAD wanted to play and are now learning that the NSO has a different idea of what playing is. RAD's lucky that their opponents decided to show some restraint in the whole bit, which is also why they're not complaining about it. Heck, deep down they're probably having fun.

[HeinousOne]

You aren't this stupid either . Someone did not 'attack the NSO', or at least not in the way that saying that implied, and military defence was not necessary. This is not a case of defending the alliance from a massive attack. It was one war declared as a result of a joke which Anthony seemed to be participating in, and the 'defence' is doing far more unnecessary damage than if NSO had simply said 'Excuse me, joke's over, peace out now'. It's not even as if RAD pulled the NSO into the joke against their will, since several NSOers were asking to be attacked.

Okay I'm biting on that bait – examples please? You should know by now that I don't and never have supported that.

Yes. In both the last two wars (Polar and Karma) we were debating what to do when the other side nuked us, and we didn't fight in the UjW or the other wars between GW3 and Polar/Hyperion. (Well technically we had a minor engagement with NoV but I think that doesn't really count as a war. I don't remember if that was nuclear.)

Here we go. Gramlins you are not the Hegemony of today with your Citadel friends ok? You really should read over the OP declaration of war that RAD made where they claim all responsibility for any reactions upon them.

You guys really wish to see others in the world that you are not connected to go at it don't you? Want an even bigger NS advantage and space differential between you and the rest of the world?

[Ivan Moldavi]

Your ignorance is not an excuse. RAD's ignorance is also not an excuse. Don't try pulling double standards on me.

Actually, it is your ignorance that seems to be in question, along with those posting similar comments.

Did it ever occur to you that over the last 14-15 hours "someone" might have changed the masking on their forum to fit the current story? Regardless, now the story has gone from "Jason8 is not a member of govt to he is a lower member of government that was 2nd in command except that he was on vacation". It still doesn't make sense.

Perhaps those in RAD that continue to harp on it believe our deal is unfair. As everyone knows, I can easily change my mind.

[Comrade Goby]

lol cool story maroon NPO

Edited August 15, 2009 by Comrade Goby

[astronaut jones]

I wouldn't go as far as to say they deserved this. If you think about it, folks rarely get what they deserve. It's a get what you get kinda world when you get down to it.

At any rate, this is about as simple as eating bacon. RAD wanted to play and are now learning that the NSO has a different idea of what playing is. RAD's lucky that their opponents decided to show some restraint in the whole bit, which is also why they're not complaining about it. Heck, deep down they're probably having fun.

I meant they deserved it for attempting to declare war on everyone and then having an alliance go "okay." I don't hate RAD, I don't think they deserve it for being themselves, just that, again, they deserve it for this huge lapse in judgement.