Jebbie Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Dude, have you read any of the polls? People are idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzak Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Before this change nations with huge amounts of infra could attack nations with even lower infra levels than they have now. Those with lots of infra generally understand that NS means absolutely nothing. Stop complaining about NS and look at the other effects of the change. Tech is now better than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewho Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Wurzak, thats a false statement. Before I could only be attacked by someone maybe twice as big as me. And thats if they deflated their millitary. I can now be attacked by people who have 3 to 5 times as much infra as me. Do some research you will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 I don't believe you. If you can be attacked by people with more than twice your infra, that means they have less tech than you, and therefore you would have been in range of people with even more infra before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewho Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) If you don't believe me, here is a few examples of what I am talking about. <a href="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...Nation_ID=28291" target="_blank">http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...Nation_ID=28291</a> If link doesnt work, search Shadow Falls and <a href="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...?Nation_ID=2293" target="_blank">http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...?Nation_ID=2293</a> Wurzland Vs. (me) Boraohmire <a href="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=151562" target="_blank">http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=151562</a> They both crush me in tech. Edited November 3, 2007 by thewho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masta Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 People are idiots. There are lots of people opposed to this, but there's no point in all of them coming here(if they all even know this topic exists) and saying the same thing as the few of us that do post against it here, especially when the few of us who actually are posting about it are getting bad mouthed and called idiots, sore losers, 'not real game players', whiners, etc. Most of us do in fact agree with the need to reduce tech NS value, but feel that a 75% reduction without any kind of warning at all is going overboard a bit. This is the single biggest change to the game since I started playing 500+ days ago, and we were completely blindsided by it as there was no warning. Yes there was a poll about it in the Suggestion forum, but the poll was against the idea by like 70-80%, so nobody thought it would come to be, or at the very least figured admin would have given a warning to pre-empt all this 'whining' and 'idiocy' by those of us who disagree with it. Unlike some members here who just shout 'HAIL ADMIN!' and berrate anyone who critique's the new change with very mature dialogue calling us sore losers, idiots or whiners, some us feel we have the right to critique any change, regardless of whether our criticism makes any difference. Sorry for wanting to discuss and give our opinions on such a major change to the game, we'll try to leave our brains out of CN from now on, clearly it's frowned upon to think for ourselves if it goes against admin and his mindless worshippers. I have supported every change to the game made thus far, but the first time I speak against a change that I feel was too extreme(I do not disagree completely, reduction was neccessary) I am an idiot and a whiner and a sore loser who doesn't know how to truely play the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiper Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) Heh. Too extreme. You do realize that any tech over 300 was essentially doing nothing and just inflating NS so that people who didn't deserve nukes could get them. You also realize that when you get big enough you can have Border Walls reasonably. Just look at my nation. I have perfect environment! And that's with a Uranium and a Government Choice that hurts environment! Edited November 3, 2007 by Swiper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 ok i posted in a few other threads and now im posting here. this change is the worst update to the game ever. everyone keeps saying this change is good and it shows a nations true NS. wrong. tech has always been a huge factor in ones NS and its price has reflected it. Tech has also been almost the only way to break into that top 5% of nations to get nukes. everyone isnt blessed with amazing resources at the start of the game that helps there infa costs go down. Tech had been the way to compensate for ones inability to buy infa due to high costs. Now with tech being almot useless for your NS it will be almost impossible for newer nations, and older ones, to get into the top 5% and get nukes. Nukes are the goal for many nations and now with it being nearly impossible to get into the top 5% why would people continue to play? Everyone says that the wars might kill CN because they dont like whos in power but unless there is a major change again to the tech system this is the most likely killer to CN. ive been ZId 3 times sanctioned by alliances been on ZI lists for alliances and never have thought of leaving. this change honestly is making me consider finding a new game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnir Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Admin did the right thing. Less nuclear rogues who could target much higher nations and destroy much more Infra. I remember nuclear rouges who were ZI'd but had 3000+ tech and were still attacking nations close to 9000 infra. That is way too unbalancing. Yeah it sucks that your numbers (and mine) went down but the game is going to be much more balanced now. CN has always been about infra and the only thing that this update did was make infra weigh a bit more than tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymraud Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) Admin did the right thing. Less nuclear rogues who could target much higher nations and destroy much more Infra. I remember nuclear rouges who were ZI'd but had 3000+ tech and were still attacking nations close to 9000 infra. That is way too unbalancing. Yeah it sucks that your numbers (and mine) went down but the game is going to be much more balanced now. Ah, but nuclear radiation is back. All the more enticing to nuke rogues. They can hurt everybody now. The game will not be balanced. Those with nukes will keep them, and those without will probably never get them. Unless they spend literal years trying to get them. People like Jebbie agree with this change because now their seat in the top 5% is secure. Rankings are now stuck. Edited November 3, 2007 by Nymraud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 I dropped 7k. Meh, I dont care either way. Its a fun game more for the politics and the subterfuge than it is for the actual game mechanics. I think Admin is trying to balance things out. Its his game. Let him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzak Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 thewho: before a few nations like this one had 1/3 or 1/4 of my infra and had about as much or even more NS than I... On the other hand, NS has never made any sense. Master-Debater: Tech has always been mainly used for bloating NS and boosting ego. It was bad even for that since it's just a short term boost. Infra on the other is used by intelligent players who want the best long term return for their money. Tech is after all only useful for a little happiness bonus and discounts on infra upkeep in the late game (and for fighting of course...). There were people who bloated their NS even before the Great War and you know what happened? I and some others bought infra gained NS faster than anyone else. If you want NS buy infra, that's why I accidentally got into top10 before the GW. After that I ate nukes and took a dive... As for resources: mine have sucked since late February/early March 2006 when admin first added someone new resources and tweaked old ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskord Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 thewho: before a few nations like this one had 1/3 or 1/4 of my infra and had about as much or even more NS than I... On the other hand, NS has never made any sense.Master-Debater: Tech has always been mainly used for bloating NS and boosting ego. It was bad even for that since it's just a short term boost. Infra on the other is used by intelligent players who want the best long term return for their money. Tech is after all only useful for a little happiness bonus and discounts on infra upkeep in the late game (and for fighting of course...). There were people who bloated their NS even before the Great War and you know what happened? I and some others bought infra gained NS faster than anyone else. If you want NS buy infra, that's why I accidentally got into top10 before the GW. After that I ate nukes and took a dive... As for resources: mine have sucked since late February/early March 2006 when admin first added someone new resources and tweaked old ones. Wurzak hit the nail on the head... tech was used for boosting a nations ego, infra was used to boost a nations strength/value/whatever, this change just adjusted it back into being more correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idriveavw Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Ah, but nuclear radiation is back. All the more enticing to nuke rogues. They can hurt everybody now. The game will not be balanced. Those with nukes will keep them, and those without will probably never get them. Unless they spend literal years trying to get them. People like Jebbie agree with this change because now their seat in the top 5% is secure. Rankings are now stuck. is that so? i just broke into the top 5% since the change and am buying nukes. it is by no means impossible to break into the top 5%. also, with the possibility of the Manhattan project wonder being added, it may not make a difference anymore in the near future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymraud Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 (edited) You're in 4.4%. Likely this occured after the change in the tech formula, and directly because of the change in forumla. Right? Not because you bought infra and got in but because the formula changed and tech heavy nations seats in the top 5 were swapped for nations like yours. I've been playing the game for well over a year, you can't deny that rankings are going to change a lot slower now than they were. Getting in the top 5% is going to take dedication. Wurzak hit the nail on the head... tech was used for boosting a nations ego, infra was used to boost a nations strength/value/whatever, this change just adjusted it back into being more correct. Look, both tech and infra had their pros and cons, that's what made it interesting. Tech may have seemed like false strength, but by buying lots of it it could give you something very powerful. Nukes. In that respect tech wasn't false strength. Edited November 4, 2007 by Nymraud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idriveavw Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 actually, i did have to buy some infra/military to break into the top 5%. i'm not going to deny that getting to the top 5% will be slower now, but it is by no means impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymraud Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 (edited) actually, i did have to buy some infra/military to break into the top 5%. i'm not going to deny that getting to the top 5% will be slower now, but it is by no means impossible. Yesterday when I looked at your ranking, it was 4.4%. You're telling me you gained at least .6% in one day? I don't believe that. You had to have been put into the top 5% as a result of the change. And out of curiosity, how long do you think it would take a naiton in the top 8% to get to the top 5? What about a nation in the top 20%? What about most nations? Most nations will never get close to ever seeing a nuke, because they're your average joe player that realizes that nukes take literally years to obtain. Nukes are a big motivation to playing this game. Now that most nations find out they can not get them unless they have a huge amount of help or play the game for a long time, we could certainly see a drop in the number of people who play CN, that is, unless more goodies are added in between aircraft and spies and all that. Admin is just making more things harder for normal players and it's going to diminish game participation. Edited November 4, 2007 by Nymraud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idriveavw Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 (edited) actually, i was at about 6% at the change. i bought some stuff and broke into the top 5%. yay for me. plus, the top nations can't pull away at crazy speed just by buying tech, so they can't get incredibly far ahead overnight as was possible before. Edited November 4, 2007 by idriveavw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegroovius Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 The decision to reduce the value of tech by 75% seems extremely unfair. I am one of thousands of nations that have spent a fortune building up on tech, and you've retrospectively reduced the value of my purchases. How can you do that? I could understand if you maintained the NS levels attained and changed the rules for all subsequent tech purchases, but a retrospective change is very uncool and has made me wonder whether I want to keep playing the game. If tech is worth so much less in relative terms, I suggest you make it possible to trade infra and land. I'm really unhappy about these changes, and I'm sure many other nations are too., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegroovius Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 The other thing that's really stupid about these changes is that you haven't actually made infra more attractive. For a nation of around 4600 infra like mine, it's still far better value for money in terms of nation strength to buy tech than infra. It's just that it doesn't pump me up so quickly. All you've done is to take a large amount of the fun of trading out of the game without making anything else more exciting in return! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idriveavw Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 The other thing that's really stupid about these changes is that you haven't actually made infra more attractive. For a nation of around 4600 infra like mine, it's still far better value for money in terms of nation strength to buy tech than infra. It's just that it doesn't pump me up so quickly. All you've done is to take a large amount of the fun of trading out of the game without making anything else more exciting in return! didn't you just post almost the exact same thing in another thread? read my reply there. NS means next to nothing. tech now is worth more than ever in terms of it's use and functionality in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas20 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 So will all those who complained about how the sudden change in the rules hurt them by making all of their useless tech worth less in terms of boosting a completely irrelevant number, now join me in complaining about how all that useless tech they previously bought and I did not buy (because it was useless by the previous rules) now gives them a TANGIBLE advantage in battle? Somehow I doubt it, even though this is a more meaningful change. Completely removing the tech cap gives those that were buying useless tech for months a huge advantage over those that didn't waste the money. I could see raising the cap but not removing it completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mage Negi Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 (edited) quote name='Nymraud' date='Nov 3 2007, 09:33 PM' post='168872']You're in 4.4%. Likely this occured after the change in the tech formula, and directly because of the change in forumla. Right? Not because you bought infra and got in but because the formula changed and tech heavy nations seats in the top 5 were swapped for nations like yours. I've been playing the game for well over a year, you can't deny that rankings are going to change a lot slower now than they were. Getting in the top 5% is going to take dedication. Let me just say this. I've lost 20k ns because of this and I'm not complaining a bit. About your point of never getting into nuke range. I could buy nukes when my nation was about 2-3 months old and i focused on infra. It's not impossible to get nukes and it certainly won't take a person a year. Besides nukes are pretty over-rated anyway Edit: WTF won't it qoute right? Edited November 6, 2007 by Master Mage Negi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DictatorPhilTaylor Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 NS is nothing..... Why dont people understand this. Oh yea it makes your nation look bigger. But it doesnt do anything in a war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 won't it qoute right? Not if you mis-spell 'quote' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.