Subtleknifewielder Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 So you are proposing a full-out conventional war, with us fighting to their capital, to place these men on trial? Obviously you do not value the lives of armed servicemen as much as we do. The amount of casualties the nation suffered could be inflicted in a few hours of battle, we would rather hold those responsible accountable and not risk additional lives. Do you have no covert operatives? Special ops? A team could have been sent in to extracxt them, minimizing collateral damage. Such things have been done before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 "I hope that the Dragon Empire knows they set a precedent to be used against them at a later date." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 We have not attacked civilian population of Khmer Empire. We have not attacked any industry of Khmer Empire. The Government who declared a war of aggression is a greater criminal in our eye than the soldier guilty of the worst war crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 "Does anyone have the coordinates for governments of each Dragon Empire nation? Anyone who can provide us with them will be well paid" ***Classified*** Careful with that kind of talk. they may view that as renewed belligerence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McBride Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 "I have always hated that quote, 'an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.' That's why we were blessed with two eyes. The first time you act like a belligerent with no concern for others, you lose an eye. The concept is that you will have learned that being a jerk is not helpful to anyone and carry out the rest of your life in 2D.Seriously, our nations are at war. The government of Khmer Empire AUTHORIZED the outright murder of our unarmed brothers and sisters. Said government refuses to cooperate with us, two nations enter a state of conflict. We eliminate those ordered the slaughter of our friends and comrades. If they do not agree to our ultimatum within 47 hours we will have to resort to more military force." If you can provide us with hard evidence to where the Khmer Empire authorized the outright slaughter of a diplomatic mission, please provide it. Otherwise, your ramblings are just propaganda. "Does anyone have the coordinates for governments of each Dragon Empire nation? Anyone who can provide us with them will be well paid" You should not respond to the Dragon Empire's despicable attacks in turn. Where is the limit? How low will you both go? Walking through the streets shooting each others women and children? Both of you are acting immature and like children throwing tantrums. Grow up and act like world leaders, both of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amyante Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 "... Unfortunately, if their/your loved ones had not cost us the lives of our loved ones, this would have never happened. The punishment for murder is death in the Empire. For clarification, a mid yield conventional warhead carrying high explosive cruise missile just detonated in an airburst a few meters above the capitol building of Khmer under GPS guidance. The one concerning the death penalty for murder, by any chance? Also, while a casus belly, fact remains that your ultimatum gave them a 48 hour period to conform to the demands stated therein. Also, we point at that last line: Failure to agree with these actions within 48 hours of issuing the ultimatum will result in military force. Note how it does NOT state MORE military force. While we agree the casus belli would have been justified if the 48 hour term had passed, the simple fact was that it had not, making this attack unwarranted and unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 We have not attacked civilian population of Khmer Empire.We have not attacked any industry of Khmer Empire. The Government who declared a war of aggression is a greater criminal in our eye than the soldier guilty of the worst war crimes. We disagree. You have too targetted civilians. A government is usually made of civilian politicians. Not to mention the workers, staff, of the building you have targetted, people who had no involvement in this decision. Stop trying to use the 'eye for an eye' justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McBride Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 So you are proposing a full-out conventional war, with us fighting to their capital, to place these men on trial? Obviously you do not value the lives of armed servicemen as much as we do. The amount of casualties the nation suffered could be inflicted in a few hours of battle, we would rather hold those responsible accountable and not risk additional lives. As Promised Land has said, covert operatives, make surrendering their leaders part of the surrender terms. There are many other options other than all out slaughter as you have chosen here. Your actions have only shown that you are impulsive and immature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 If you can provide us with hard evidence to where the Khmer Empire authorized the outright slaughter of a diplomatic mission, please provide it. Otherwise, your ramblings are just propaganda.You should not respond to the Dragon Empire's despicable attacks in turn. Where is the limit? How low will you both go? Walking through the streets shooting each others women and children? Both of you are acting immature and like children throwing tantrums. Grow up and act like world leaders, both of you. Our military forces are smashed to pieces and we have no cruise missiles we shall not be launching an attack at any time instead this is for a future time if the information proves useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Yes, it is a causus belli...but we see no declaration of war. Even so, if you had, this would still be a deplorable act--as the deliberate targetting of civilians is a war-crime, no matter the justification. We again remind you of the term casus belli. An act of casus belli is itself a declaration of war. Do you have no covert operatives? Special ops? A team could have been sent in to extracxt them, minimizing collateral damage.Such things have been done before. Perhaps Promised Land would next suggest its soldiers and policemen to shoot the rifle rather than the person holding it. We have terminated the issue with the least casualty. Or would you prefer us to a wage a war of attrition against Khmer Empire? Also covert operations are not really applicable in tactical situations as this. "I hope that the Dragon Empire knows they set a precedent to be used against them at a later date." We do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McBride Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Perhaps Promised Land would next suggest its soldiers and policemen to shoot the rifle rather than the person holding it. We have terminated the issue with the least casualty. Or would you prefer us to a wage a war of attrition against Khmer Empire?Also covert operations are not really applicable in tactical situations as this. Once again, you try comparing soldiers to civilians. The comparison does not work. And please explain to us how covert operations are not applicable in a time like this? This seems to be one of the times when they are most applicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 We again remind you of the term casus belli. An act of casus belli is itself a declaration of war. Wrong. It is used as a justification for declaring war, and is not an actual declaration in and of itself. Perhaps Promised Land would next suggest its soldiers and policemen to shoot the rifle rather than the person holding it. We have terminated the issue with the least casualty. Or would you prefer us to a wage a war of attrition against Khmer Empire?Also covert operations are not really applicable in tactical situations as this. Please explain why covert operatives were not a viable alternative? An alternative that would have saved the lives of innocent civilians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 If you can provide us with hard evidence to where the Khmer Empire authorized the outright slaughter of a diplomatic mission, please provide it. Otherwise, your ramblings are just propaganda.You should not respond to the Dragon Empire's despicable attacks in turn. Where is the limit? How low will you both go? Walking through the streets shooting each others women and children? Both of you are acting immature and like children throwing tantrums. Grow up and act like world leaders, both of you. We request you to read through the transcripts sent by our diplomatic mission shortly before they died and the tapes from MERAT aircraft that have been published. This is not propaganda. This is cold fact. Propaganda is the lies told by Khmer Empire that our diplomats were armed and were sent to assassinate their leader. We suggest you to discern between propaganda and fact. We disagree. You have too targetted civilians. A government is usually made of civilian politicians. Not to mention the workers, staff, of the building you have targetted, people who had no involvement in this decision. Stop trying to use the 'eye for an eye' justification. We consider it best to decrease the number of casualties. If there is an all out war there would be far more casualties, both civilian and military. We do lament the fact that some civilian staffers who are in no way connected with governance may have lost their lives. We deeply regret it, but we consider this act to be the lesser of two evils. As Promised Land has said, covert operatives, make surrendering their leaders part of the surrender terms. There are many other options other than all out slaughter as you have chosen here. Your actions have only shown that you are impulsive and immature. May we remind you that we had decided to attend conferences with Khmer Empire even after the murder of our diplomats? We believe we have acted in the best way to decrease the loss of lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) We consider it best to decrease the number of casualties. If there is an all out war there would be far more casualties, both civilian and military. We do lament the fact that some civilian staffers who are in no way connected with governance may have lost their lives. We deeply regret it, but we consider this act to be the lesser of two evils.May we remind you that we had decided to attend conferences with Khmer Empire even after the murder of our diplomats? We believe we have acted in the best way to decrease the loss of lives. You still have not excplained just WHY this was the lesser of two evils. There were still other options; though admittedly diplomacy was not one of them, there were still other options. Like that covert ops team. Edited July 15, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McBride Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 We request you to read through the transcripts sent by our diplomatic mission shortly before they died and the tapes from MERAT aircraft that have been published. This is not propaganda. This is cold fact. Propaganda is the lies told by Khmer Empire that our diplomats were armed and were sent to assassinate their leader. We suggest you to discern between propaganda and fact. We have reviewed the tapes. We have seen the acts of a general from the Khmer Empire, stating that your diplomats had weapons, and ordering them to fire. We have seen no direct evidence that the government ordered him to do this. We ask you to provide that evidence, since those are your claims. May we remind you that we had decided to attend conferences with Khmer Empire even after the murder of our diplomats? We believe we have acted in the best way to decrease the loss of lives. Indeed, because fuel air bombs are so discerning about only killing those you targeted and not others near them. If you believe fuel air bombs are the best way to decrease the loss of lives, then we would expect you to use a chainsaw to cut loose threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 They killed 10 of your diplomats, you killed even more people, that includes civilians that were in the blast radius, office workers, and people who had no involvement with the shooting incident. If you want to bring their leaders to trial, just send in an special operation team to extract their leaders for trial to avoid unnecessary deaths and damages. Or is it that you lack a special operation team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 You still have not excplained just WHY this was the lesser of two evils. There were still other options; though admittedly diplomacy was not one of them, there were still other options. Like that covert ops team. Covert ops ? How would any operation against a well defended site like government center when it is inhabited by security forces for the protection for government leaders remain covert? Such an operation has a very low chance of success in a hostile environment like this and risk of collateral damage still persists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Covert ops ? How would any operation against a well defended site like government center when it is inhabited by security forces for the protection for government leaders remain covert?Such an operation has a very low chance of success in a hostile environment like this and risk of collateral damage still persists. yes, but the risk of collateral damage is much less than a fuel-ari bomb, which guarantees collateral damage, no matter how well-placed. As for the covert ops team...we suppose you have never heard of the term disguise? Infiltration is not 100% shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 yes, but the risk of collateral damage is much less than a fuel-ari bomb, which guarantees collateral damage, no matter how well-placed.As for the covert ops team...we suppose you have never heard of the term disguise? Infiltration is not 100% shooting. Special operation teams also gain help from people who are against the government but are in the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Indeed, because fuel air bombs are so discerning about only killing those you targeted and not others near them. If you believe fuel air bombs are the best way to decrease the loss of lives, then we would expect you to use a chainsaw to cut loose threads. Fuel Air Bomb? We wonder how 500 Kg of Trinotal can ever be considered a Fuel Air Bomb? We have used a calculated surgical strike to demolish the Capitol building and nothing beyond a radius of 25 meters will be affected by flying rubble. They killed 10 of your diplomats, you killed even more people, that includes civilians that were in the blast radius, office workers, and people who had no involvement with the shooting incident.If you want to bring their leaders to trial, just send in an special operation team to extract their leaders for trial to avoid unnecessary deaths and damages. Or is it that you lack a special operation team? The warhead was a calculated yield High Explosive device that did not send out too much rubble beyond a radius of 25 meters beyond the building. We possess capable special operations units. However an operation to extract the government members would not have worked for the simple reason that they are well protected. Even if we managed to extract them to exfiltrate them would be difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) We possess capable special operations units. However an operation to extract the government members would not have worked for the simple reason that they are well protected. Even if we managed to extract them to exfiltrate them would be difficult. Distraction is the key. Set off their security system several times to get them to turn down the sensitivity, get someone who is in the security force to help out, etc, etc, etc. Edited July 15, 2009 by HHAYD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) The warhead was a calculated yield High Explosive device that did not send out too much rubble beyond a radius of 25 meters beyond the building. We possess capable special operations units. However an operation to extract the government members would not have worked for the simple reason that they are well protected. Even if we managed to extract them to exfiltrate them would be difficult. It still boils down to the fact that no matter how much you calculate, there is guaranteed collateral damage from any missile attack. Covert operations possess much less risk of that, and what are those operatives for, if not difficult situations like these? If you hold back with them in situations like these, always afraid of using them, they never get used, and they are wasted. there is no poiint to having them if they are not used from time to time. These people are trained for situations just like this. Edited July 15, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 yes, but the risk of collateral damage is much less than a fuel-ari bomb, which guarantees collateral damage, no matter how well-placed.As for the covert ops team...we suppose you have never heard of the term disguise? Infiltration is not 100% shooting. We implore upon the world nations to have a better idea of the facts. Trinotal is not a Fuel Air Bomb. It is High Explosive Class 1.1D Special operation teams also gain help from people who are against the government but are in the government. We have no information regarding any movements opposed to the government. Also we hope you understand the level of alertness and deployment in a nation at war. Such notions as disguise will not suffice in such a situation. Also special ops require a greater level of information and reconnaissance before operations. The conflict had deteriorated too fast for such a reconnoitering. We hope you can understand the true nature of Special Operations. OOC: Rambo stuff never works. I am RPing real spec ops, not movie kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) "So that is a 75 foot radius? That rubble could kill tourists of other nations that were visiting the capital building that day." Edited July 15, 2009 by Voodoo Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 "Let us just hope they don't respond with their own attack or maybe something worse" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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