An apology to the GPA

[Tygaland]

19 pages over an apology? If I don't see a war declaration (or two) come out of this I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

lol

But it is an Ivan apology so there is far more to be read into it than the generic "insincere!" responses posted in other apology threads.

It never ceases to amaze me how hard some people will push to create drama over nothing. NSO tried something different (rightly or wrongly) and resolved the matter as an alliance with the alliances affected by their recruitment messages. End of issue.

[WarriorConcept]

lol

But it is an Ivan apology so there is far more to be read into it than the generic "insincere!" responses posted in other apology threads.

It never ceases to amaze me how hard some people will push to create drama over nothing. NSO tried something different (rightly or wrongly) and resolved the matter as an alliance with the alliances affected by their recruitment messages. End of issue.

To be fair, we all remember how the last Ivan apology turned out

[Tygaland]

To be fair, we all remember how the last Ivan apology turned out

haha

The point is that the NSO worked out a resolution with the parties involved. If people want to discuss the pros and cons of recruitment from other alliances, go for it. Just leave the political posturing out of it.

[Angrator]

19 pages over an apology? If I don't see a war declaration (or two) come out of this I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

There was 59 pages last time I checked for the other thread.

CN is slow. I think they need their drama fix or something.

[WarriorConcept]

haha

The point is that the NSO worked out a resolution with the parties involved. If people want to discuss the pros and cons of recruitment from other alliances, go for it. Just leave the political posturing out of it.

What else will they do on Alliance Politics ;_;

Stop taking away everyone's enjoyment bizarro moo!

[Tygaland]

What else will they do on Alliance Politics ;_;

Stop taking away everyone's enjoyment bizarro moo!

Bizarro Moo was so April, I'm the Supreme Shepherd now. Do keep up!

[WarriorConcept]

Bizarro Moo was so April, I'm the Supreme Shepherd now. Do keep up!

Well, it is the Shepherd's job to help me

[TehChron]

Well, it is the Shepherd's job to help me

One day Ill earn a title and be relevant too...

*shakes his fist*

Maybe Ill be able to make 20 page threads through sheer angst generated by uninvolved parties, too?

Edited July 5, 2009 by Chron

[enderland]

Yes, unlike others here who would never leap to conclusions based on assumptions, right? As far as I'm aware, this issue has nothing to do with Citadel and was resolved by the parties involved. I'm not sure why HellAngel would need to deliver the threat he did towards Frostbite. Perhaps he can clarify. I wasn't aware of any particular issue between Frostbite and Citadel until posts of that ilk were made.

I think it is more that doing things that most alliances think of as blatant asshattery tends to cause people to not like you, and eventually you press the wrong alliance's buttons.

Probably based on the idea that if these messages were sent to most non-neutral alliances there would not just be an apology and the case shut.

[Tygaland]

I think it is more that doing things that most alliances think of as blatant asshattery tends to cause people to not like you, and eventually you press the wrong alliance's buttons.

But if the aggreived alliances believe the issue is resolved as does the alliance who is accused of asshattery, what is the point of other uninvolved parties throwing their assumptions around? Other than to keep a resolved issue festering, of course.

Probably based on the idea that if these messages were sent to most non-neutral alliances there would not just be an apology and the case shut.

They weren't, they were sent to alliances that have since resolved the issue with the NSO. If you want to discuss the pros and cons of recruitment from other alliances that's fine, just leave the political posturing and fantasy out of it.

[enderland]

But if the aggreived alliances believe the issue is resolved as does the alliance who is accused of asshattery, what is the point of other uninvolved parties throwing their assumptions around? Other than to keep a resolved issue festering, of course.

I think you are reading too much into a statement like that.

For example, I recently was flamed and kbanned from a certain alliance's public channel, then flamed again the second time I went there. I told one of their government who finally queried me essentially that "This is a really bad way to operate if you want to not get rolled sometime since most alliances won't put up with this."

I would not consider that a threat. Perhaps some would, but essentially saying that eventually someone is going to react more strongly (in my case me, here the CN community as a whole) I see as more informative than threatening.

[Tygaland]

I think you are reading too much into a statement like that.

For example, I recently was flamed and kbanned from a certain alliance's public channel, then flamed again the second time I went there. I told one of their government who finally queried me essentially that "This is a really bad way to operate if you want to not get rolled sometime since most alliances won't put up with this."

I would not consider that a threat. Perhaps some would, but essentially saying that eventually someone is going to react more strongly (in my case me, here the CN community as a whole) I see as more informative than threatening.

Maybe I am, but seeing as this incident had nothing to do with Frostbite I found the warning to be a little off the mark. Adding to that the fact that resolution of this incident was dependent on the NSO understanding such actions are not accepted by the greater community, the warning was kind of redundant.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Tygaland

[Sal Paradise]

I'm curious, to those that believe that these recruitment messages were an egregious offense to goodly sensibilities, how does this apology and Ivan Moldavi's commitment to not recruit from alliances that don't recruit from NSO, not make up for it?

edit: thanks Tygaland

Edited July 5, 2009 by Sal Paradise

[HeinousOne]

so what ur saying is that if this whole thing had gone bad and GPA had taken badly to being recruited from and attacked NSO straight up?

sta wouldn't of come to NSO defense?

as for what i think i believe that if one of NSO allies decided to help GPA would of been in a tough position

i don't have any relations with the said alliances so it doesn't concern me what they would of done. its more of a IF

nice reply

but u jumped into that one

I jumped into nothing. Honestly I wouldnt have minded them taking some hits for such a stupid move without speaking to their allies about making such a move. I am not in our leadership so I cannot say for sure.

You sure didnt expect that did you. Seriously, was that your idea of a "trap"?

[Tygaland]

I'm curious, to those that believe that these recruitment messages were an egregious offense to goodly sensibilities, how does this apology and Ivan Moldavi's commitment to recruit from alliances that don't recruit from NSO, not make up for it?

Ivan did not commit to recruiting from alliances that do not recruit from the NSO. He said the NSO would not recruit from alliances anymore unless that alliance recruits from the NSO.

[Sal Paradise]

Ivan did not commit to recruiting from alliances that do not recruit from the NSO. He said the NSO would not recruit from alliances anymore unless that alliance recruits from the NSO.

Whoops, that's what I meant to say. An important distinction to ruin with a typo.

[enderland]

I jumped into nothing. Honestly I wouldnt have minded them taking some hits for such a stupid move without speaking to their allies about making such a move. I am not in our leadership so I cannot say for sure.

You sure didnt expect that did you. Seriously, was that your idea of a "trap"?

It's a trap!

[Tygaland]

Whoops, that's what I meant to say. An important distinction to ruin with a typo.

I figured as much, but you can never be too sure around here.

If I may ask you, in relation to the question you posed, what was it that the alliances NSO sent recruitment messages to lost that needed to be made up for?

I can understand the need for an apology for the wording of the message and the pledge to not recruit from alliances again, but I'm not sure what else it is you think was necessary here.

[Sal Paradise]

If I may ask you, in relation to the question you posed, what was it that the alliances NSO sent recruitment messages to lost that needed to be made up for?

I can understand the need for an apology for the wording of the message and the pledge to not recruit from alliances again, but I'm not sure what else it is you think was necessary here.

I never said I thought anything was necessary. I just want to know why some feel that this isn't enough. It's almost as if you reworded and clarified my question to them and asked it of me.

Part of my point is that some don't believe that the apology is sincere. I wonder why it needs to be sincere to satisfy them.

[Tygaland]

I never said I thought anything was necessary. I just want to know why some feel that this isn't enough. It's almost as if you reworded and clarified my question to them and asked it of me.

Part of my point is that some don't believe that the apology is sincere. I wonder why it needs to be sincere to satisfy them.

Ah, fair enough. I misunderstood from which direction you were asking the question.

[HeinousOne]

I never said I thought anything was necessary. I just want to know why some feel that this isn't enough. It's almost as if you reworded and clarified my question to them and asked it of me.

Part of my point is that some don't believe that the apology is sincere. I wonder why it needs to be sincere to satisfy them.

The apology is to those alliances that were offended, anyone else can honestly just piss off if they think their opinion on the sincerity of the apology matters. All that matters to them is that Ivan has promised that such practices will not continue.

To continue on past that is to be trying to control or harm NSO.

[Sal Paradise]

The apology is to those alliances that were offended, anyone else can honestly just piss off if they think their opinion on the sincerity of the apology matters.

An explanation as to why you didn't ask my question. But you didn't need to tell me this, I would have normally assumed that you didn't care about the answer to a question you didn't ask.

[Starcraftmazter]

You really cannot be this slow. They did own up to it. They apologized and said they wouldnt do it again unless an alliance recruited from them. They can do that and still say they think it is silly but that they will abide by such.

You really need to catch up with the situation.

Actually, I am referring to the fact that NSO chose those alliances specifically because they knew it would not come to war, and if it did, they would not lose. This is contrary to the official explanation by Ivan, claiming it was for ideological reasons.

I think a thinly veiled threat from a citadel member evidenced throughout the thread, which you claimed to believe was limited Aqua alliances (lawl) is pretty good evidence of my point regarding pointless posturing and threats. Either you dont know what you're talking about, or you're lying. Either way, 0/1

No idea what you even mean here. Nor does that look like a threat to me.

Waiting to see you prove either of those claims, and considering the fact you left yourself some wiggling room to maneuver indicates you werent entirely sure of what you were saying either. 0/2

Thanks, but I didn't ask for your analysis. Why do you have such a hard time keeping on topic?

Oh dear...Clearly you didnt read the OP

Clearly, you didn't read my posts. Allow me to educate you, as you read my above reply to HeinousOne.

[HellAngel]

[OOC] Too bad i had to go to bed last night... answering all of your replies would have been hella fun [/OOC]

Yes, i was not talking about GPA, i was talking about TDO and aqua. You guys really didnt know what was going on behind closed curtains? I thought you knew.

Of course this is just going to be seen as a Citadel action, just like we predicted, but whatever... if it makes it easier for you and gives you a new enemy, go ahead.

To me it was just aqua standing up against aggressive actions targeted at a friend of us. Now you will of course again go into what is considered aggressive action and what not. To us it was, thats what counted in that situation for us. I dont necessarily disagree with fighting against what is perceived to be common standards of diplomacy in CN. [ooc]We all could use something new to make the game interesting. I just dont believe thats what NSO actually aimed for.[/ooc]

Edited July 6, 2009 by HellAngel

[Tygaland]

You guys really didnt know what was going on behind closed curtains? I thought you knew.

If I had any idea what you are referring to, I might be able to better answer this.