Central European Union

[Uberstein]

OOC: Articles 1 and 2 are conflicting in this case I consider his ships and planes terrorist craft which would allow me to protect my sovereignty by Article 1. Including but not limited to

OOC: ...terrorist craft? You're calling a fellow CEU nation a terrorist?

[Centurius]

OOC: Well while we are getting all e-lawyer, the charter presumes a state of non-aggression between the two of you meaning ships originating from bavaria couldn't be classified as "terrorist" crafts. Of course if one of the ships did attack your nation or do harm to your citizens you could view it as a military act against you. However until that happens the ships should be able to move through under article II. Otherwise what is the point of even putting an article about free trade and open boarders if you can just label foreign trade and movement as terrorist acts and be isolationist. Clearly that wasn't the intent when it was written. Of course if you want to continue down that path lynneth could just put the supplies on military craft and send them in considering direct agents of a nation's military probably wouldn't fall under "terrorist activity". *shrugs*

OOC: They would fall under Military action... While the charter indeed was not ready for a situation as this. If we believe a craft is terrorist for the security systems it is. As would you only be able to arrest a terrorist once he commits the act?

OOC: ...terrorist craft? You're calling a fellow CEU nation a terrorist?

OOC: Yes I do as I consider him a danger to my sovereignty

[Lynneth]

OOC: They would fall under Military action... While the charter indeed was not ready for a situation as this. If we believe a craft is terrorist for the security systems it is. As would you only be able to arrest a terrorist once he commits the act?

OOC: Yes I do as I consider him a danger to my sovereignty

OOC:

...

How do I endanger your sovereignity by protecting Italy from a blockade?

[Centurius]

OOC:

...

How do I endanger your sovereignity by protecting Italy from a blockade?

OOC: I'm not cutting you off because of Italy it is because you occupy Koper which in the eyes of the Croatian people is Croat.

[iamthey]

OOC: As I am no longer a party to this treaty I suppose it doesn't really make much of a difference; however I do think IC that's a gross abuse of the treaty if not an outright violation. Basically you are just twisting the treaty to meet your own political agenda of pushing out junio because you don't like his internal RP (or because you want the 1px city back). Perhaps a vote should be held to decide if lynneth's civilian craft and their food supplies can indeed considered terrorist crafts. The reason being it would require an act by the CEU to establish a definitional loop hole for article II not just a personal edict, even by a founding member.

Edited July 30, 2009 by iamthey

[Sargun II]

OOC: ARGUE THIS IN-CHARACTER

[Centurius]

OOC: As I am no longer a party to this treaty I suppose it doesn't really make much of a difference; however I do think IC that's a gross abuse of the treaty if not an outright violation. Basically you are just twisting the treaty to meet your own political agenda of pushing out junio because you don't like his internal RP (or because you want the 1px city back). Perhaps a vote should be held to decide if lynneth's civilian craft and their food supplies can indeed considered terrorist crafts. The reason being it would require an act by the CEU to establish a definitional loop hole for article II not just a personal edict, even by a founding member.

OOC: The city while small is important for my people of course I will use all abilities I have. A vote could not be held as the treaty nowhere states it is allowed to change internal policies of a signatory.

[Uberstein]

OOC: Argue this IC.

[iamthey]

OOC: The city while small is important for my people of course I will use all abilities I have. A vote could not be held as the treaty nowhere states it is allowed to change internal policies of a signatory.

OOC: The treaty forces all signatories to create an internal policy of open boarders and free trade. My point was if you want to have a loop hole for terrorist crafts you need to hold a vote as no such loop hole as established in the charter. While there would normally be flexibility for actual terrorist crafts and actual terrorist activities clearly this is IC just a political move to get back a piece of territory so such flexibility or "the charter couldn't account for this" wouldn't apply. Anyway i'll stop posting in this.

[comrade nikonov]

In response to Croatia's inquiries, we imagine Romania as a parliamentary democracy with a high tax rate but many provisions for its citizens, such as standardized health care and a strong national defense system.

[Centurius]

In response to Croatia's inquiries, we imagine Romania as a parliamentary democracy with a high tax rate but many provisions for its citizens, such as standardized health care and a strong national defense system.

Then you enjoy our endorsement.

[Lynneth]

"Seen here, Croatia said that they would label vessels flying the Bavarian flag as terrorist-vessels.

This clearly is simply a try to get around Article II, Section II, which guarantees our ships and planes access to Croatian waters and airspace. If they label our ships as terrorist ships, then they automatically label Bavaria as Rogue state. That we cannot stand for.

Instead of destroying the ships outright, they should simply search them for terrorist goods. Obviously, food and medical supplies are not part of 'terrorist goods'.

And before anyone argues with "Koper is Croatian!", it is not. The city by now has a 90% majority of Bavarian civilians, while the croat population staid about the same at 23,726 croatian and 213,534 bavarian inhabitants, not counting 20,000 soldiers that are stationed there permanently, or the crews of our navy, which are an additional 40,000 or so. Thus, the croatian population in total only is about 8% of the total population.

It also is by now an extremely important city for Bavaria's international trade."

Edited July 30, 2009 by Lynneth

[Centurius]

"Seen here, Croatia said that they would label vessels flying the Bavarian flag as terrorist-vessels.

This clearly is simply a try to get around Article II, Section II, which guarantees our ships and planes access to Croatian waters and airspace. If they label our ships as terrorist ships, then they automatically label Bavaria as Rogue state. That we cannot stand for.

Instead of destroying the ships outright, they should simply search them for terrorist goods. Obviously, food and medical supplies are not part of 'terrorist goods'.

And before anyone argues with "The city is Croatian!", it is not. The city by now has a 90% majority of Bavarian civilians, while the croat population staid about the same at 23,726 croatian and 213,534 bavarian inhabitants, not counting 20,000 soldiers that are stationed there permanently, or the crews of our navy, which are an additional 40,000 or so. Thus, the croatian population in total only is about 8% of the total population.

It also is by now an extremely important city for Bavaria's international trade."

I find it however interesting how Bavarian ships could even supply the city as the city is the only place where you have a harbor anyway, non Bavarian vessels are not banned. You cannot stand for us calling you a rogue state? We can not stand for hostile Germans occupying Croatian land.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Centurius

[Lynneth]

I find it however interesting how Bavarian ships could even supply the city as the city is the only place where you have a harbor anyway, non Bavarian vessels are not banned. You cannot stand for us calling you a rogue state? We can not stand for hostile Germans occupying Croatian land.

>>how Bavarian ships could even supply the city

We buy cheaply from international exporters, that simple.

>>We can not stand for hostile Germans occupying Croatian land.

We are not hostile towards you, we are angered by the policy you have enacted, which is labelling bavarian ships as terrorist ships and disallowing us from entering your waters or airspace, simply because we do not wish the Republic of Italy to be blockaded.

[Centurius]

>>how Bavarian ships could even supply the city

We buy cheaply from international exporters, that simple.

>>We can not stand for hostile Germans occupying Croatian land.

We are not hostile towards you, we are angered by the policy you have enacted, which is labelling bavarian ships as terrorist ships and disallowing us from entering your waters or airspace, simply because we do not wish the Republic of Italy to be blockaded.

Those international exporters are not marked as Bavarian and as such not marked as terrorists.

And yes you are hostile by undermining navy vessels who will continue doing their job stopping illegal trade. If your anti-blockade is of any worth it will serve to stop those ships.

[welshgazza1992]

In an emergency meeting of the Welsh Parliament, the following was decree'd

Wales is suspending her participation in the Central European Union until futher notice. We thank our allies for their continued support.

King Bryn I of The Kingdom of Wales

Onward Europa!

Cymru Am Byth!

[Lynneth]

Those international exporters are not marked as Bavarian and as such not marked as terrorists.

And yes you are hostile by undermining navy vessels who will continue doing their job stopping illegal trade. If your anti-blockade is of any worth it will serve to stop those ships.

"Unfortunately, the wares bought from them are delivered by use of ships flying the Bavarian flag, which belong to Bavarian companies.

Regarding your blockade: You overreacted. Sure, the Republic could've done better than gun the violent protestors down, but it's better than letting these people demolish cars, buildings, et cetera and potentially hurt other citizens.

Each of our vessels will escort one ship through your 'blockade' into italian waters. Attempts by your ships to board trading vessels will be stopped. In our eyes, the trade vessels are doing nothing illegal."

[Centurius]

"Unfortunately, the wares bought from them are delivered by use of ships flying the Bavarian flag, which belong to Bavarian companies.

Regarding your blockade: You overreacted. Sure, the Republic could've done better than gun the violent protestors down, but it's better than letting these people demolish cars, buildings, et cetera and potentially hurt other citizens.

Each of our vessels will escort one ship through your 'blockade' into italian waters. Attempts by your ships to board trading vessels will be stopped. In our eyes, the trade vessels are doing nothing illegal."

Those ships have plenty of space through the corridor which was talked about before.

Regarding overreaction, we have seen the criminal regime commit inhumane acts multiple times as conventional sanctions did not work the only option remained blockading non-critical supplies or would you rather have we would have funded rebels to the level they could cause civil war or even worse invaded them? If anything we have been mild. In our eyes they are doing things illegal, the only way you can protect them would be opening fire on Croatian ships wonder how that one will go

Edited July 30, 2009 by Centurius

[Lynneth]

Those ships have plenty of space through the corridor which was talked about before.

"We still dislike the fact that you are labelling our merchant vessels as 'terrorist ships'."

Regarding overreaction, we have seen the criminal regime commit inhumane acts multiple times as conventional sanctions did not work the only option remained blockading non-critical supplies or would you rather have we would have funded rebels to the level they could cause civil war or even worse invaded them? If anything we have been mild. In our eyes they are doing things illegal, the only way you can protect them would be opening fire on Croatian ships wonder how that one will go

"What Rebels? The majority of the population likes the regime. Invaded whom? You're not making the slightest bit of sense.

Also, our ships are bigger than yours. They can simply force your ships away by carefully sailing besides your ships and then moving towards your vessels. That leaves your captains two choices: Being rammed by a bigger ship or adjusting their course."

[Centurius]

"We still dislike the fact that you are labelling our merchant vessels as 'terrorist ships'."

"What Rebels? The majority of the population likes the regime. Invaded whom? You're not making the slightest bit of sense.

Also, our ships are bigger than yours. They can simply force your ships away by carefully sailing besides your ships and then moving towards your vessels. That leaves your captains two choices: Being rammed by a bigger ship or adjusting their course."

You can dislike it as much as you want it is our right to do so.

As the strikes have shown not everyone likes Borghese. I doubt you would even be able to access those who would say something against it as the regime has imprisoned those. Also our ships are roughly the same size. I also wonder about the effectiveness of your ships if they do not even have systems to fend off an approaching ships, our damned sure have. Even if we didn't ramming a ship would be considered an act of war as it is basically an attack.

[Lynneth]

You can dislike it as much as you want it is our right to do so.

"It is our right to arrest every single of your citizens from our country and put them into labour camps, claiming they are terrorists. Are we doing that?

No."

As the strikes have shown not everyone likes Borghese. I doubt you would even be able to access those who would say something against it as the regime has imprisoned those. Also our ships are roughly the same size. I also wonder about the effectiveness of your ships if they do not even have systems to fend off an approaching ships, our damned sure have. Even if we didn't ramming a ship would be considered an act of war as it is basically an attack.

"Note that I said 'Majority'. There's always a minority that doesn't like the regime. There's some in Croatia, there's some in Bavaria, et cetera. You can't possibly make all people content.

Bavarian ships are in fact roughly 10 to 20 meters longer than the average ship of a comparable nation. They deliberately were built like that.

Also: Just because our ships gently nudge yours away doesn't mean we don't have the best and most modern weapon systems you could possibly think of. We are simply utilizing the most peaceful way that is possible to stop your ships from preventing international trading vessels to enter the Republic's national waters.

Should your ships open fire on ours instead of adjusting course and leaving for home harbours, we will see it as a declaration of war against Bavaria. We thus recommend that you call off the blockade soon."

[Uberstein]

Bavarian ships would only be acting in self defence. I ask, how can Croatia call a member-state of the CEU a terrorist nation without repercussions?

I vote that Croatia be REMOVED from the CEU, due to it's obvious attempts to use loopholes to avoid treaty obligations and it's statement without evidence that Bavaria is a terrorist nation. The Croatian leaders clearly have no respect for the Central European Union and deserve no part of it.

[Centurius]

"It is our right to arrest every single of your citizens from our country and put them into labour camps, claiming they are terrorists. Are we doing that?

No."

"Note that I said 'Majority'. There's always a minority that doesn't like the regime. There's some in Croatia, there's some in Bavaria, et cetera. You can't possibly make all people content.

Bavarian ships are in fact roughly 10 to 20 meters longer than the average ship of a comparable nation. They deliberately were built like that.

Also: Just because our ships gently nudge yours away doesn't mean we don't have the best and most modern weapon systems you could possibly think of. We are simply utilizing the most peaceful way that is possible to stop your ships from preventing international trading vessels to enter the Republic's national waters.

Should your ships open fire on ours instead of adjusting course and leaving for home harbours, we will see it as a declaration of war against Bavaria. We thus recommend that you call off the blockade soon."

Yes it is though I doubt you would find many.

The fact between the situation in North Italy and ours is we let those against our regime walk free and only punish them should they actually commit a crime where in many instances the gang principle comes in effect and the punishment is at max a fine or a few months of imprisonment. Peaceful protesters can proceed unhindered. However this regime has openly shot down them without sufficient cause. We will not stop the blockade, entering the range of Croatian ships where automated defenses get activated will be considered an act of war upon Greater Croatia.

[Uberstein]

Yes it is though I doubt you would find many.

The fact between the situation in North Italy and ours is we let those against our regime walk free and only punish them should they actually commit a crime where in many instances the gang principle comes in effect and the punishment is at max a fine or a few months of imprisonment. Peaceful protesters can proceed unhindered. However this regime has openly shot down them without sufficient cause. We will not stop the blockade, entering the range of Croatian ships where automated defenses get activated will be considered an act of war upon Greater Croatia.

Attempting to stop Finnish shipping to North Italy will be an act of war against the Republic of Finland. You have no right to stop international trade unless it's to your nation.

You have no right to stop fellow CEU shipping.

[Centurius]

Attempting to stop Finnish shipping to North Italy will be an act of war against the Republic of Finland. You have no right to stop international trade unless it's to your nation.

You have no right to stop fellow CEU shipping.

But has a single Finnish ship been stopped?