Superpowers?

[Velken]

I was recently on the CN wiki and came across some articles about current/former alliances, history of CN, wars and so on. I saw many references to more than one alliance being labled as a Superpower. What i couldn't find was a page on the wiki that listed past or present alliances that would be labled as such. So my question is this, is there such thing as a superpower status for alliances in CN and if so which alliance are currently considerd to be superpowers?

[Delta1212]

NPO was probably the last Superpower alliance. They aren't anymore. Power is pretty well concentrated in blocs rather than alliances now.

[Hegemon Rob]

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Global_Hegemony

In Cn we don't use the term super power, cause well relatively speaking many alliances has the power to greatly influence all of PB, as such many alliances can be labeled superpowers. We use global Hegemony(hyperpowers), to describe what you're talking about.

[President Obama]

Depends on your definition of Superpower.

[wickedj]

Eperor Delta is the last remaining Superpower

[Zoomzoomzoom]

I think a superpower could easily be classified as any alliance with an extreme advantage in NS, numbers, nukes, wonders, and allies.

[President Obama]

I think a superpower could easily be classified as any alliance with an extreme advantage in NS, numbers, nukes, wonders, and allies.

Very early GATO and early NPO then I suppose. However, back then power in the world was much more centralized in comparison to today.

In today's world, I would find it highly improbable that any alliance would be able to achieve an 'extreme' advantage over the rest of the world.

[Ryan Greenberg]

The only true Superpowers(alliances only) were GATO and NPO. The only Superpowers(blocs only) were WUT and tC/1v. With NPO and tC gone, there isn't and will never be in the short term a superpower the has complete dominance over the game.

[RyanGDI]

The Global Defence Initiative is clearly the supreme superpower in this new era.

[Ryan Greenberg]

The Global Defence Initiative is clearly the supreme superpower in this new era.

How could I forget their overwhelming victory in the Christmas War??!! GDI is truely the superpower of the world!

[Epiphanus]

Back around GW2, there were certain alliances labeled as CN superpowers, GATO, Legion, NPO, maybe LUE. Those were the "superpowers" back in the day and that was the last time I really heard that phrase used.

[Näktergal]

Depends on your definition of Superpower.

Flight, invulnerability, laser beam eyes?

Eperor Delta is the last remaining Superpower

Don't forget the awesome power that is the Prism Protection Front. We all know they secretly control most of the global politics in CN from the shadows.

[Velken]

NPO was probably the last Superpower alliance. They aren't anymore. Power is pretty well concentrated in blocs rather than alliances now.

I thought Hegemony was just a coalition of alliances during that Karma War, Thanks for the link B)

Edited June 25, 2009 by Velken

[Heft]

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Global_Hegemony

In Cn we don't use the term super power, cause well relatively speaking many alliances has the power to greatly influence all of PB, as such many alliances can be labeled superpowers. We use global Hegemony(hyperpowers), to describe what you're talking about.

That's an, ahh, interesting list. Why is GATO considered a hegemonic power, and why does that power end at GWI? Also, no one really considers the CoaLUEtion as having hegemony power, at least not for any longer than a single instant in time, if even that. The final is debateable, and it seems to me that it would make more sense to just put Continuum, instead of a made up name. The Initiative is the only one that seems to make sense by itself.

That said, it doesn't adequately address the question being asked here, which is about individual alliances. I'm not sure what the wiki writers are using as criterion for "superpower" or whatnot, but it would be interesting to discuss. From a quick perusal of the regular wiki, we can establish basic definitions for various sorts of powers and apply them to CN alliances, like so -

Hyperpower - A single alliance which exercises essentially hegemonic domination. This has probably never existed, unless you count the very brief (two weeks?) period where GATO was the only functional alliance.

Superpower - A single alliance which is capable of projecting its influence and exercising its will at any place and at any time, with no other single alliance capable of overcoming it (considering political, military, cultural, and economic power and influence as a whole). Only a handful of these can exist at any given time. NPO has been one for the majority of its time, with a brief fall after GWI and another fall now. NpO arguably achieved this, as did GONS for a relatively brief period. In general there have not been very many. It might be possible for Sparta or TOP to achieve this now, but that remains to be seen. The current situation as a whole has dispersed power to a large degree so that no single alliance can (yet) claim to have such significant political influence to be considered as a Superpower.

Great Power - A single alliance which is also capable of projecting its influence and will on the global stage, but is not so influential to be considered a true leader of the world order. TOP, IRON, most of the higher sanctioned alliances with notable political involvement, FAN, etc, would fall into this category, either now or previously. Currently, I would put TOP and Sparta here, and there are a few others that could be considered for it (Gramlins, MHA, Fark, etc).

Middle Power - A single alliance which cannot greatly influence the world as a whole on its own, but still has global influence and recognition. Most notable alliances currently would fall into this group. These alliances are generally noted by a much stronger commitment to diplomacy and multi-lateral actions and coalitions (i.e, Karma).

Regional Power - A single aliance which doesn't really have global influence or recognition, but which does have influence over their region. In CN, regions are generally color spheres. There are plenty of alliances out there that fit this definition, and who play a role in the politics of their sphere, but only play a minor or auxiliary role in most higher level politics.

Also, while it is true that any alliance could conceivably end up having a large effect on the global politics, that doesn't mean that everyone/no one is a superpower. Just because this last war kicked off over OV, or UJW over BoTS, doesn't make those alliances automatically superpowers. To be a superpower, you have to be able to sustain that influence through your own power and projection of power.

[theArrowheadian]

Just because this last war kicked off over OV, or UJW over BoTS, doesn't make those alliances automatically superpowers. To be a superpower, you have to be able to sustain that influence through your own power and projection of power.

Basically OV and BoTS were used to start a massive war like what could have happened during the cold war in Vietnam, Korea, etc?

[Heft]

Basically OV and BoTS were used to start a massive war like what could have happened during the cold war in Vietnam, Korea, etc?

Right. Or another example: nobody considers Serbia a RL Great or Super Power just because Europe went insane over it.

[Delta1212]

Of course, this means I'm going to have to start calling Sethb Franz.

[sethb]

Of course, this means I'm going to have to start calling Sethb Franz.

Doesn't that mean I get killed?

[Velken]

That's an, ahh, interesting list. Why is GATO considered a hegemonic power, and why does that power end at GWI? Also, no one really considers the CoaLUEtion as having hegemony power, at least not for any longer than a single instant in time, if even that. The final is debateable, and it seems to me that it would make more sense to just put Continuum, instead of a made up name. The Initiative is the only one that seems to make sense by itself.

That said, it doesn't adequately address the question being asked here, which is about individual alliances. I'm not sure what the wiki writers are using as criterion for "superpower" or whatnot, but it would be interesting to discuss. From a quick perusal of the regular wiki, we can establish basic definitions for various sorts of powers and apply them to CN alliances, like so -

Hyperpower - A single alliance which exercises essentially hegemonic domination. This has probably never existed, unless you count the very brief (two weeks?) period where GATO was the only functional alliance.

Superpower - A single alliance which is capable of projecting its influence and exercising its will at any place and at any time, with no other single alliance capable of overcoming it (considering political, military, cultural, and economic power and influence as a whole). Only a handful of these can exist at any given time. NPO has been one for the majority of its time, with a brief fall after GWI and another fall now. NpO arguably achieved this, as did GONS for a relatively brief period. In general there have not been very many. It might be possible for Sparta or TOP to achieve this now, but that remains to be seen. The current situation as a whole has dispersed power to a large degree so that no single alliance can (yet) claim to have such significant political influence to be considered as a Superpower.

Great Power - A single alliance which is also capable of projecting its influence and will on the global stage, but is not so influential to be considered a true leader of the world order. TOP, IRON, most of the higher sanctioned alliances with notable political involvement, FAN, etc, would fall into this category, either now or previously. Currently, I would put TOP and Sparta here, and there are a few others that could be considered for it (Gramlins, MHA, Fark, etc).

Middle Power - A single alliance which cannot greatly influence the world as a whole on its own, but still has global influence and recognition. Most notable alliances currently would fall into this group. These alliances are generally noted by a much stronger commitment to diplomacy and multi-lateral actions and coalitions (i.e, Karma).

Regional Power - A single aliance which doesn't really have global influence or recognition, but which does have influence over their region. In CN, regions are generally color spheres. There are plenty of alliances out there that fit this definition, and who play a role in the politics of their sphere, but only play a minor or auxiliary role in most higher level politics.

Also, while it is true that any alliance could conceivably end up having a large effect on the global politics, that doesn't mean that everyone/no one is a superpower. Just because this last war kicked off over OV, or UJW over BoTS, doesn't make those alliances automatically superpowers. To be a superpower, you have to be able to sustain that influence through your own power and projection of power.

Ok this pretty much anwsers my original question here, thank you. I'm not sure who works on the CN wiki but I feel they should consider adding this into it, from what I've observed over the past two years (the amount of time i've been on CN) I've seen the balance of power shift between alliances and considering how many allanices are around and forming the power levels could radically change. Specifically Regional and Middle power, with Regional it would depened on how many alliances are in that region and if one or more was Sancationed.

[King DrunkWino]

Doesn't that mean I get killed?

As soon as we can find a completly nuts student.

/me looks around

Yeah, you're pretty much boned there Franz.

[Epiphanus]

As detailed as Heft's description is, it is his opinion. Others, like myself, may argue the definitions he presented. I'm not going to go into great detail, but merely want to point out that the definitions and which alliances fall into which category are up for debate.

[HeinousOne]

First off, this war has evened the odds. Look at how close the top and bottom of the sanction list are to each other now compared to before. A small number of superpowers may indeed grow from the bunch but none really stand out right now due to differing factors for each alliance.

Now, there can be more then one superpower, its just that the world has grown used to only having one for quite some time. As members fluctuate and alliance growth measures begin to have their affect we may very well see a world with multiple superpowers.

[Heft]

As detailed as Heft's description is, it is his opinion. Others, like myself, may argue the definitions he presented. I'm not going to go into great detail, but merely want to point out that the definitions and which alliances fall into which category are up for debate.

That's true, and I wouldn't encourage anyone to just drop it onto wiki without building some wider consensus first, at least. But as a basic outline of how those terms would carry over into CN I can't honestly see room for very great disagreement. Some tweaking of boundaries and debate over specific alliances and where they fall, but the general gist seems like it would be acceptable enough.

[Innerspeaker]

I agree with Heft. The hyper power, super power, and great power definitions are exactly as I would have thought.

Hyper power: NPO in my opinion. No other alliance has ever extended so far across the planet Bob, power wise. Honestly, the NPO had quite a lot of influence in WUT, 1V, Continuum, more so than has ever been seen. Although I suppose putting NPO here is all relative to other alliances.

Super power: I think there are two catagories; Diplomatic, and Total NS. Diplomatically, I would consider FAN (after GWIII, up to FAN-WUT war), GOONS (after FAN-WUT war, before UJW), NpO (after UJW, before WotC) MK (during WotC, up to and during Karma War), and before GWIII, the top LEAGUE alliances. Total NS-wise, I would consider any who have been in the top 5 sanctioned alliances with the exception of Neutrals.

Great power: Once again, split between diplomatic and total NS. Diplomatically, TOP, MHA, FOK, \m/, TPF, Valhalla, MCXA, ect. Total NS, most sanctioned alliances (besides the ones that did very little ever)

[shahman]

The only true Superpowers(alliances only) were GATO and NPO. The only Superpowers(blocs only) were WUT and tC/1v. With NPO and tC gone, there isn't and will never be in the short term a superpower the has complete dominance over the game.

there are a few superpower bloc-alliances coming into view.

Frostbite w/ C&G comes to mind, the two have strong ties through various treaties among member alliances

Citadel will always be a player.

Superfriends is gaining strength.