NoFish Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Did anyone really think Karma would refuse 300,000 technology and 8 billion dollars in reps? What? Do you think we're just a bunch of cheap thugs who would step aside for an extra 1b tossed our way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeaR_LeSs Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hey Moo, remember when you asked TDSM8 to pay more reps than we had? Remember when you changing the terms and holding us demilitarized for 6 months killed our alliance? Remember when you asked Athens for 6/7 of their tech? Remember when you held GATO in a viceroy for a year? Remember when you perma warred FAN? Remember all the people you forced out of this game? Remember all the homes you destroyed? Shut the $%&@ up. You are playing a pity boat when you deserve none. Im so sick of you guys trying to act like you deserve any better than this. o/ Everyone else should remember this too but I know thse NPO members won't because of course they were in favor of it. I wonder what Moo would do if he is in karmas shoes. Probably the same if not worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerKoel Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Sure, maybe not directly, but it is easily infered; if you did not mean to say that, make it more clear, mmk? wow what a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddyyo Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 He was referring to those offered in the early stages of the war, I believe, which were withdrawn when NPO was found to be getting its nations into peace mode during the negotiations. There were IRC logs that showed Moo arguing, accepting terms, but then the Karma guy said Moo had to accept the rest before hearing them or they wouldn't let them accept. What a riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarikmo Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Sure, maybe not directly, but it is easily infered; if you did not mean to say that, make it more clear, mmk? I thought it was quite clear, I will simplify it next time however, just so there are no mix ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobb Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Greatperson Lord Gobb laughs at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyman Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Seventy Nine Pages of Enema. Disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadshot Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Put up or shut, oh slave to the lying COWard.You're in my range. Come on....one click. Just one.... Do it. I don't care what anyone says, I like this guy. On topic: Has this gone on long enough? It hasn't even been 24 hours yet and already this has turned into the same crap show as most other threads. In order for Pacifca to prove they actually are feeling the winds of change, they have to be given the opportunity. For months people cried over their actions and veiled threats that they needed to change. They didn't and ate it because of it. Now they are broke down and have admitted defeat. Karma played their hand perfectly, I don't think anyone will doubt that. From the opening with Vox, through the disintegration of tC from within, Karma ran a PR campaign that was for the ages. We all know this. Every Hegemony alliance will give you kudos on that one. Unfortunately, one cannot show change when they are not given the opportunity to do so. You have proven that you can band together to cripple opposition, just as the hegemony did to you. You have proven that the old methods of e-peen waving and gang attacks for no reason will not be tolerated any more. You have continually shown that Hegemony alliances severely underestimated your political abilities and did not give you the credit you deserve. You have shown mercy, mercy that was undeserved (ask stumpy how I felt about NATO's white peace), and talking with other hegemony alliances i can tell you that you have succeeded in swaying the opinion, and changing the tunes we once carried. But that is not all. You have the opportunity here to have what you were all missing all along until Pax Continuum, or Pax Pacifica, the fervor and drama that was stamped out by fear of the jackboots. You stood up and put us in our places. I remember telling Sethb that you all needed to stop complaining and back the bark up with some bite, and well !@#$ me if you didn't make me eat my words. And we didn't even have it as bad as some! One thing that needs to stop though is the issue of forced disbandment. No one can do that. Yes they can make it tough, and no I don't think that is right. FAN was before me and to this day I can not say I know why they were held to war for years. King Zog certainly did not deserve that message he received. Stumpy didn't deserve to lose his alliance. None of you deserved any of that. I am not condoning their behavior. What I am saying is give them the benefit of the doubt. Let them prove it either way. Give them harsh terms, but terms that are possible to keep. I'm not saying this because you are turning into the monsters you hate or any of that crap. I am saying it because if you really think about it and be honest with yourselves, you know they are not stupid. If they were, they wouldn't have ruled for three years. I'm not saying this will happen, but giving these terms may put you into a position to create that chip on the shoulder that you now have, only when it comes around again it will be bigger. I am sure there are some out there that if they were presented this, those winds of change would soon dissipate and in its place would grow revenge. And the world you thought was harsh before would be nothing to what was brought around again. /disclaimer This is only a thought and not how I feel, as I said before, I have no wish for revenge on anyone. And yes, I am adding these to every post so none of this will be taken out of context and used to destroy me for my opinions. Kind of like what you would be doing if you worsened the reps for taking it public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristospherein Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I have read pages 1-10, went to bed, woke up to see pages 70+, and it's just a big loop really. These arguments are all valid, but also all just a continuation from the first page. Would this qualify as the most controversial terms ever? Maybe so, does the New Pacific Order deserve them? Yes, I believe so. There is little doubt in my mind that Pacifica should pay these reps. Did anyone really ever think that Karma would white peace the Order? To finally answer your question directly, instead of by inference (which is obviously over your head), I do consider these to be the most controversial terms ever (hence 70 pages of dialogue regarding them). I also believe the NPO does not deserve them, nor any alliance. And lastly, I did not ever believe Karma would offer us white peace. To have believe as much is just plain silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 The Viridian Entente has less than 90% of its nations in war mode, and Ragnarok is just above 90%.The VE also has less than 90% of its nations over 4K infra in war mode. I bet NPO had nearlly 100% of their nations in war mode about two months before this war happened... But, that's unpossible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintar Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Meh, those terms are far too light for NPO. But, im glad that you guys rejected them, now we get to knock you out of the sanc race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 There were IRC logs that showed Moo arguing, accepting terms, but then the Karma guy said Moo had to accept the rest before hearing them or they wouldn't let them accept. What a riot. I think you need to re-read those. That was never said. The closest thing I can think of was the karma-negotiator (Archon, I think?) saying that Moo-cows had to agree to accept each term before moving on to the next one? I'm not sure what you're mistaken about if not that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWBert Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) Only on page 27, but unless there were some huge revelations between there and page 78, I have to say this thread is just hilarious.The fact that NPO really, sincerely seems not to understand why these terms are not only fair but lenient is mind-boggling. After acting with total impunity for ~3 years you haven't understood that actions have consequences? Come out of peace mode, take the two weeks of war, and pay the damn reps. Even if it takes a year, it is still fair. How many alliances did you stop from growing or even existing for years at a time? You're getting off light. I have to vent a little here. I understand how an alliance can be subjugated to being responsible for actions years ago, but is this some new CN precedent that is going to be set? Are alliances going to pay for all their past mistakes? Even when at the times certain actions were deemed correct? I mean think in general how much CN has changed. If alliances are going to be punished for actions deemed inappropriate years after they happened, we could have an interesting CN in future wars, lol. Are we going to see alliances punished for involvement in "x" war where one side did something "unjust" w/ reparations? Edited June 13, 2009 by NEWBert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWBert Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I bet NPO had nearlly 100% of their nations in war mode about two months before this war happened...But, that's unpossible! When in non-war times does a bank nation have 3 wars against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I have to vent a little here. I understand how an alliance can be subjugated to being responsible for actions years ago, but is this some new CN precedent that is going to be set? Are alliances going to pay for all their mistakes? Even when at the times certain actions were deemed correct? I mean think in general how much CN has changed. If alliances are going to be punished for actions deemed inappropriate years after they happened, we could have an interesting CN in future wars, lol. Oh! But I murdered those toddlers before you guys said killing was wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarikmo Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) To finally answer your question directly, instead of by inference (which is obviously over your head), I do consider these to be the most controversial terms ever (hence 70 pages of dialogue regarding them). I also believe the NPO does not deserve them, nor any alliance. And lastly, I did not ever believe Karma would offer us white peace. To have believe as much is just plain silly. Dodging the question does not count as an inference, but thanks for answering the post at least. Edited June 13, 2009 by Tarikmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hey Karma.... The NPO has never been much known for harsh reps. BUT they are known for "harsh" terms. You wanna punish them...send them over a viceroy. I know some of you guys have experience with that stuff Cause in the end these reps are just so unfair it's not even funny.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddyyo Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I think you need to re-read those. That was never said. The closest thing I can think of was the karma-negotiator (Archon, I think?) saying that Moo-cows had to agree to accept each term before moving on to the next one? I'm not sure what you're mistaken about if not that, though. I don't want to search for it, but it clearly showed at the end, and I think this is an exact quote about 2 dozen lines from the end: "We cannot stay long. Accept the terms or leave." And they had gotten to the second term, and NPO had accepted both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristospherein Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You needed to answer my questions directly because your inferences were way off of the original question. But thanks for answering the post at least. They were not actually. I was extrapolating from what you obviously were trying to get at with your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarikmo Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 They were not actually. I was extrapolating from what you obviously were trying to get at with your post. What I was trying to "get at"? My post had no other meanings then my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 When in non-war times does a bank nation have 3 wars against it? The point here is that NPO is claiming that inactive peeps might do so that you can't have 90% of the nations in war mode. However, it's pretty clear that you can if you really wanted to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWBert Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) Oh! But I murdered those toddlers before you guys said killing was wrong! Nice analogy. I'm no CN historian, but for example when alliances broke 'non-nuclear' wars, coming out nukes blazing, they were deemed 'wrong'. Things change, hence CN widely using nukes nowadays. It isn't even considered on holding them back. (I mean come on, in CN war we pretty much just nuke each other to death, lol). Edited June 13, 2009 by NEWBert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkoricic Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hey Moo, remember when you asked TDSM8 to pay more reps than we had? Remember when you changing the terms and holding us demilitarized for 6 months killed our alliance? Remember when you asked Athens for 6/7 of their tech? Remember when you held GATO in a viceroy for a year? Remember when you perma warred FAN? Remember all the people you forced out of this game? Remember all the homes you destroyed? Shut the $%&@ up. You are playing a pity boat when you deserve none. Im so sick of you guys trying to act like you deserve any better than this. Stumpy 2 NPO 1 haha 213% of our tech in reps vs. Athens only requiring 85% of their tech in reps...yep those are mild terms. Also, the war against Athens lasted a considerable amount shorter than this war has already lasted. This war plus these reps is beyond Karma now. It's about revenge. Japan drew the US in World War II with an aggressive attack. = NPO drawing Karma into a war with an aggressive attack. Both Japan and NPO started the war, Japan got nuked and so has NPO. Now you must pay as Japan did. Luckily we arnt taking your Emperor and women away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristospherein Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Dodging the question does not count as an inference, but thanks for answering the post at least. Dodging the question? I thought asking whether we expected white peace all along was rhetorical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerKoel Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 To finally answer your question directly, instead of by inference (which is obviously over your head), I do consider these to be the most controversial terms ever (hence 70 pages of dialogue regarding them). I also believe the NPO does not deserve them, nor any alliance. And lastly, I did not ever believe Karma would offer us white peace. To have believe as much is just plain silly. Hey Moo, remember when you asked TDSM8 to pay more reps than we had? Remember when you changing the terms and holding us demilitarized for 6 months killed our alliance? Remember when you asked Athens for 6/7 of their tech? Remember when you held GATO in a viceroy for a year? Remember when you perma warred FAN? Remember all the people you forced out of this game? Remember all the homes you destroyed? Shut the $%&@ up. You are playing a pity boat when you deserve none. Im so sick of you guys trying to act like you deserve any better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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