Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Tygaland]

Can you stop shoving words down the throats of the Pacificans who come to post here?

Sarai is one of the nicest people in NPO.

You haven't read her previous posts, have you? I suggest you do before tracking your crap on my carpet.

[Farrin Xies]

I think the main issue is you write off the communities in other alliances that your alliance has trashed as insignificant while trumpeting the glorious and invaluable community of the NPO. It does reek of arrogance and an utter disregard for any alliance other than your own.

Tyga, I'm not gonna presume to talk for Sarai, but I know that I think - or at least hope - everyone values their alliance's community as much as we do. This is the only alliance I've ever been in, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I know from talking to many, many others - including yourself - that community is important across the board. I wouldn't want the NPO to impose terms on anyone that completely destroyed their alliance and thus that community. "AHAHA! BUT YOU HAVE! READ YOUR HISTORY! ZOMG!" I completely and firmly disagree with that. FAN? They violated the terms set forth. Not our fault. Viceroyship? For one, look to my earlier post where I mention other alliances have used viceroys; second, having an experienced and intelligent viceroy isn't necessarily a bad thing for an alliance.

Tyga, you of all people should know that I will be the first to admit NPO has made mistakes in the past. All alliances have. Alliances are led by humans, who are extremely mistake prone. And I can completely understand alliances against us and their wish for "karma," or vengence, revenge, whatever you want to call it. Sure, maybe we had this coming. Being number one tends to make a lot of other people mad. But, to get back on topic - and by back on topic, I mean all the way back to the OP - the terms as presented go extremely far beyond simple revenge and are nothing more than an attempt to destroy us completely and wholly.

[R&R-Viking]

Well, it couldn't be said that you're a moral crusader and a big fan of pacifica

It's a vote of confidence in that if you were the leader of karma, we'd be f*cked.

Quoting this about Xiphosis because it's true.

[Ogaden]

You haven't read her previous posts, have you? I suggest you do before tracking your crap on my carpet.

I have indeed read her post, and there is nothing remotely offensive within it. If you weren't so busy parsing her response for ammunition you would see that yourself.

[Eigrim]

I just went back 20 pages and I had to stop because I might have lost enough brain cells to become as legally retarded as whoever is crunching numbers on y'alls side is. Please, if you can find the post in this morass, I invite you to link it here so it can be useful to our discussion.

Here: Link

[Tygaland]

Tyga, I'm not gonna presume to talk for Sarai, but I know that I think - or at least hope - everyone values their alliance's community as much as we do. This is the only alliance I've ever been in, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I know from talking to many, many others - including yourself - that community is important across the board. I wouldn't want the NPO to impose terms on anyone that completely destroyed their alliance and thus that community. "AHAHA! BUT YOU HAVE! READ YOUR HISTORY! ZOMG!" I completely and firmly disagree with that. FAN? They violated the terms set forth. Not our fault. Viceroyship? For one, look to my earlier post where I mention other alliances have used viceroys; second, having an experienced and intelligent viceroy isn't necessarily a bad thing for an alliance.

So, basically, if you ignore all the bad stuff, the NPO is pretty cool? I guess if we all did that we'd all be saints. Your disagreement with any allegations of wrongdoing or excessive terms towards the NPO from the past is called denial. Your alliance was happy to smash alliances and their communities and enjoyed every minute of it. Now the shoe is on the other foot you are suddenly remorseful. I'm not buying it.

Tyga, you of all people should know that I will be the first to admit NPO has made mistakes in the past. All alliances have. Alliances are led by humans, who are extremely mistake prone. And I can completely understand alliances against us and their wish for "karma," or vengence, revenge, whatever you want to call it. Sure, maybe we had this coming. Being number one tends to make a lot of other people mad. But, to get back on topic - and by back on topic, I mean all the way back to the OP - the terms as presented go extremely far beyond simple revenge and are nothing more than an attempt to destroy us completely and wholly.

I have never spoken to you before (as far as I can recall) so I have no idea whether you'd admit anything. But the terms you have been given are no worse than the terms you handed out and/or supported yourself and by no means destroy you utterly unless you choose to let them. I remember your Emperor chiming in to make sure NpO's last terms were especially nasty despite him saying the NPO had no say or role in the war on the NpO. So, excuse me if I don't shed a tear when you guys have to suffer a small amount of pain after this war.

[Teriethien]

Looking through some of the history and obviously not getting the 'human touch' of it through Wikipedia I can see that the monetary terms we enforce tend to be small.

Are you taking inflation into account?

[Tygaland]

I have indeed read her post, and there is nothing remotely offensive within it. If you weren't so busy parsing her response for ammunition you would see that yourself.

Then you have some comprehension issues, because she says twice that the NPO should receive special dispensation for being a larger community and one that is more important to the Cyberverse when compared to the communities of alliances the NPO and Co have trashed in the past.

[Azhrarn]

Tyga, I'm not gonna presume to talk for Sarai, but I know that I think - or at least hope - everyone values their alliance's community as much as we do. This is the only alliance I've ever been in, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I know from talking to many, many others - including yourself - that community is important across the board. I wouldn't want the NPO to impose terms on anyone that completely destroyed their alliance and thus that community. "AHAHA! BUT YOU HAVE! READ YOUR HISTORY! ZOMG!" I completely and firmly disagree with that. FAN? They violated the terms set forth. Not our fault. Viceroyship? For one, look to my earlier post where I mention other alliances have used viceroys; second, having an experienced and intelligent viceroy isn't necessarily a bad thing for an alliance.

Tyga, you of all people should know that I will be the first to admit NPO has made mistakes in the past. All alliances have. Alliances are led by humans, who are extremely mistake prone. And I can completely understand alliances against us and their wish for "karma," or vengence, revenge, whatever you want to call it. Sure, maybe we had this coming. Being number one tends to make a lot of other people mad. But, to get back on topic - and by back on topic, I mean all the way back to the OP - the terms as presented go extremely far beyond simple revenge and are nothing more than an attempt to destroy us completely and wholly.

Yeah, I'm not Tyga, but I'm gonna butt in here anyway.

As I understand it, FAN "violated" the terms by having a few nations with a few too many soldiers, something which was actually an inevitable consequence of the terms which had been given to them, and for that you felt that perma-war against the entire alliance was justified? But I'm sure that someone who's actually from FAN can address the injustice of that much better than I.

[OOC] And you're still defending viceroys even after they've been declared violations of the TOS? [/OOC]

And finally, this last gem, "the terms as presented" don't come close to the terms which you've given to numerous other alliances in the past. So if these terms "go far beyond simple revenge and are nothing more than an attempt to destroy [the NPO] completely and wholly," then what are we to conclude about the terms which you handed down to FAN, GATO, GPA, TDSM8 and the NAAC, to name just a few?

The NPO needs more PR people like you and Sarai, seriously.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Azhrarn

[Farrin Xies]

Tyga, and I always spoke so highly of you to my peers. I see I was mistaken. And I'm sorry, weren't you a Viceroy once? Does that mean, you too are ebil?

[Proxian Empire]

Tyga, and I always spoke so highly of you to my peers. I see I was mistaken. And I'm sorry, weren't you a Viceroy once? Does that mean, you too are ebil?

Don't attempt to counter anything Tyga just said, just tell him you don't like him anymore to prove how wrong he is!

[Teriethien]

I have indeed read her post, and there is nothing remotely offensive within it. If you weren't so busy parsing her response for ammunition you would see that yourself.

As someone from a small alliance I find comments like these reek of arrogance and highly offensive:

I note that some arguments exist that we stopped others from being alliances, two wrongs doesn't make a right and indeed sadly Pacifica is larger and has a bigger community and function than these smaller alliances.

I am also saying that with a larger alliance comprised of real people

[R&R-Viking]

As someone from a small alliance I find comments like these reek of arrogance and highly offensive:

Real people, haha, I missed that. I'm going to ask my alliance if they'll increase the reps a bit for that.

[Farrin Xies]

Yeah, I'm not Tyga, but I'm gonna butt in here anyway.

As I understand it, FAN "violated" the terms by having a few nations with a few too many soldiers, something which was actually an inevitable consequence of the terms which had been given to them, and for that you felt that perma-war against the entire alliance was justified? But I'm sure that someone who's actually from FAN can address the injustice of that much better than I.

[OOC]And seriously, you're still defending viceroys even after they've been declared violations of the TOS? [/OOC]

And finally, this last gem, "the terms as presented" don't come close to the terms which you've given to numerous other alliances in the past. So if these terms go "far beyond simple revenge and are nothing more than an attempt to destroy [you] completely and wholly," then what are we to conclude about the terms which you handed down to FAN, GATO, and the NAAC, to name just a few?

The NPO needs more PR people like you and Sarai, seriously.

I should have made myself more clear, my apologies. I'm personally opposed to viceroys, and, if I were in a position of power in a victorious alliance would never push for them. However, all that anyone on the Karma side can talk about is NPO's - and, in some cases, not even NPO's, but our allies at the time - past indiscretions, hence me being forced to argue about them. I've reviewed a lot of peace terms accepted, and while there are certainly a number of things I appreciate Karma for not pushing on us - demilitarization, etc. - none of those still come close to the terms we were presented. And yet we were still willing to accept them, if not for the tacked-on demands. The most outrageous numbers an alliance has ever had to pay? Sure, we'll even pay a little bit extra. Lose our community? Hell. No.

[Farrin Xies]

Don't attempt to counter anything Tyga just said, just tell him you don't like him anymore to prove how wrong he is!

"NPO IS EBIL FOR FORCING NAAC TO DISBAND AFTER TYGA WAS THEIR VICEROY! IT'S NOT TYGA'S FAULT, THOUGH! HE'S STILL COOL!"

Sorry, was that what you were saying?

Edited June 16, 2009 by farrin

[R&R-Viking]

Lose our community? Hell. No.

How does two weeks of war and 1k+ tech nations paying kill your community?

[Tygaland]

Tyga, and I always spoke so highly of you to my peers. I see I was mistaken. And I'm sorry, weren't you a Viceroy once? Does that mean, you too are ebil?

Because I don't buy into your rhetoric you opinion of me drops? Heh, your choice I suppose.

I was Viceroy of NAAC after one of the Polar Wars, yes. I was a member of the NPO back then and was Viceroy of the NAAC for a couple of weeks up until they decided to plot war against the NPO in areas of the forum I could access. Which eventually lead to Polar War II, I believe.

Does being a Viceroy 3 years ago make me evil? I'm not sure that is for me to say. My goal as Viceroy was to try and prevent them, the NAAC, from doing anything stupid and get themselves into another war. Sadly, I failed in achieving that goal. A number of early members of the NpO were former-NAAC so perhaps I wasn't that evil afterall.

[Tygaland]

"NPO IS EBIL FOR FORCING NAAC TO DISBAND WHILE TYGA WAS THEIR VICEROY! IT'S NOT TYGA'S FAULT, THOUGH! HE'S STILL COOL!"

Sorry, was that what you were saying?

NAAC did not disband while I was their Viceroy.

[Centurius]

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind

[Farrin Xies]

Because I don't buy into your rhetoric you opinion of me drops? Heh, your choice I suppose.

I was Viceroy of NAAC after one of the Polar Wars, yes. I was a member of the NPO back then and was Viceroy of the NAAC for a couple of weeks up until they decided to plot war against the NPO in areas of the forum I could access. Which eventually lead to Polar War II, I believe.

Does being a Viceroy 3 years ago make me evil? I'm not sure that is for me to say. My goal as Viceroy was to try and prevent them, the NAAC, from doing anything stupid and get themselves into another war. Sadly, I failed in achieving that goal. A number of early members of the NpO were former-NAAC so perhaps I wasn't that evil afterall.

Tyga, I meant no disrespect, and I appreciate you proving my point. There have been some excellent viceroys who have tried their best to help the alliance they were overseeing. From your account, you were one of them. Because you, as NPO member at the time, were unable to stop the NAAC from plotting against the NPO, does that mean the NPO failed?

[Teriethien]

Real people, haha, I missed that. I'm going to ask my alliance if they'll increase the reps a bit for that.

It's sad isn't it, the NPO demanding different treatment from us just because we aren't real

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind

Very helpful.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Teriethien

[Farrin Xies]

NAAC did not disband while I was their Viceroy.

Fixed, my reading of the history from the time period was a bit off.

[Tygaland]

Tyga, I meant no disrespect, and I appreciate you proving my point. There have been some excellent viceroys who have tried their best to help the alliance they were overseeing. From your account, you were one of them. Because you, as NPO member at the time, were unable to stop the NAAC from plotting against the NPO, does that mean the NPO failed?

To be honest, the NAAC failed themselves. Theoir leadership was not the best at the time and they did not put a great deal of thought into what they were doing.

However, I cannot agree that the GATO Viceroyship was one designed to assist GATO, more likely humiliate them and keep them under your thumb for as long as possible. I highly doubt that recent use of Viceroys was anything other than an attack on the sovereignty of an alliance after war as a further insult to injury. I don't think GATO and Legion were anywhere near as incompetent government-wise as NAAC was back then. The NAAC needed to be guided away from self-destruction whereas I do not believe Legion and GATO were on that path.

[R&R-Viking]

It's sad isn't it, the NPO demanding different treatment from us just because we aren't real

OOC: I'll remember to link this thread to the IRS when I don't pay taxes.

[Brotherington]

Tyga, I'm not gonna presume to talk for Sarai, but I know that I think - or at least hope - everyone values their alliance's community as much as we do. This is the only alliance I've ever been in, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I know from talking to many, many others - including yourself - that community is important across the board. I wouldn't want the NPO to impose terms on anyone that completely destroyed their alliance and thus that community. "AHAHA! BUT YOU HAVE! READ YOUR HISTORY! ZOMG!" I completely and firmly disagree with that. FAN? They violated the terms set forth. Not our fault. Viceroyship? For one, look to my earlier post where I mention other alliances have used viceroys; second, having an experienced and intelligent viceroy isn't necessarily a bad thing for an alliance.

I'm just going to chip in here to inform you that NPO members are about the only people who still cling to the assertion that the second attack upon FAN was justified. It was a disgusting abuse of power and trust on the part of your leaders.