Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Ragashingo]

I would just like to say that the NPO has tried to get to the bargaining table with Karma, and has been rebuked over and over again.

We've tried to get peace, and told them what is honestly possible. They refuse and spout out false numbers in an attempt to make us look like we're weaseling out of reparations. We're not.

Like what the NPO has done in the past or not, the ball is in Karma's court if we're ever to get peace.

I'd say its in both of your courts. Nothing prevents either side from changing its position on the terms.

[sethb]

I would just like to say that the NPO has tried to get to the bargaining table with Karma, and has been rebuked over and over again.

We've tried to get peace, and told them what is honestly possible. They refuse and spout out false numbers in an attempt to make us look like we're weaseling out of reparations. We're not.

Like what the NPO has done in the past or not, the ball is in Karma's court if we're ever to get peace.

Hahahaha You say we spit out false numbers? I remeber being told that yall couldnt pay the reps because every single one of youre banks would desert.

[Judeatia]

You have been offered terms. You have chosen not to take them. That is your own fault and no one elses.

Offered terms that will never be possible, and that are a complete slap in the face.

[delendum]

I would just like to say that the NPO has tried to get to the bargaining table with Karma, and has been rebuked over and over again.

We've tried to get peace, and told them what is honestly possible. They refuse and spout out false numbers in an attempt to make us look like we're weaseling out of reparations. We're not.

Like what the NPO has done in the past or not, the ball is in Karma's court if we're ever to get peace.

The ball is actually in your court, you ARE able to live up to these terms. Seriously, it's not even worth debating anymore, it's been done over and over again in this thread, to no end.

[Raider]

Yeah, sure. I'm gonna go insult someone over something that happend a year ago. Nobody has to believe me, but I honestly would have insulted them if those GATO nations got to peace mode as a result of blown staggers. I really would have.

OOC: I laughed when I clicked that link. Very funny.

What is your position then exactly?

[Aurion]

I would just like to say that the NPO has tried to get to the bargaining table with Karma, and has been rebuked over and over again.

We've tried to get peace, and told them what is honestly possible. They refuse and spout out false numbers in an attempt to make us look like we're weaseling out of reparations. We're not.

Like what the NPO has done in the past or not, the ball is in Karma's court if we're ever to get peace.

Someone finally acquired their talking points memo I see.

[Roadie]

What is your position then exactly?

My position on what? These terms or the ones given to GATO?

[Raider]

Offered terms that will never be possible, and that are a complete slap in the face.

You want to see impossible terms that are a complete slap in the face?

Here's what \m/ was offered by the NpO.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=2614

[08:15.40] <|Jason8|> If I can ask, what will it cost \m/ to continue to exist as an alliance?

[08:18.14] <~sponge_afk> You have to disband to minimum military forever, including improvements, and become an eternal tech farm for Polaris.

[08:18.28] <~sponge_afk> With an appointed Polar Viceroy.

[08:19.08] <|Jason8|> You're kidding, right?

[08:19.37] <~sponge_afk> Not in the slightest.

[08:21.00] <|Jason8|> Got anything else?

[08:21.51] <~sponge_afk> A personal apology to every single member of the New Polar Order, each individually written and apropriately personalized.

[08:22.08] <|Jason8|> ...

[08:28.04] <|Jason8|> You cannot expect me to accept either of those.

[08:34.07] <~sponge_afk> Did you really think when it came down to it I would be at all charitable?

[08:34.38] <|Jason8|> Oh hell no.

[08:34.53] <|Jason8|> I just thought you might let us exist.

[08:36.11] <~sponge_afk> I will under the terms offered above.

[08:36.32] <|Jason8|> I guess this is over, then.

[08:36.43] <~sponge_afk> Yes, it is.

Session Close: Wed Sep 19 20:37:00 2007

[Ragashingo]

My position on what? These terms or the ones given to GATO?

Just go with both so we're all agreed.

[Raider]

My position on what? These terms or the ones given to GATO?

These terms.

Please explain to me why you believe what you do.

[Roadie]

These terms.

Please explain to me why you believe what you do.

I think they're a bit much, but it's not for me to decide. I didn't win and I'm not in NPO.

More specifically the cash and tech look payable to me. I also do believe NPO when they say they have a problem getting to the 90%.

In a smaller alliance that has a core of active players, I would dismiss that claim, but not for a larger alliance that gets it's members by recruiting noobs. I can easily see players that are uninvolved with poilitics refusing to come out of hippy to get crushed. Moreso with ones that already have been crushed and made it back to Def 6. I think getting curbstomped really does effect the average player.

Best I can figure only a few percent of players are really involved with politics. Most just want to watch their infra numbers get bigger and see new wonders get added to that list on their 'My Nation' screen.

[Space Ghost]

Way too late for me to catch up with the 160+ pages on this beast.

I liked the IRC suggestion that the nations in peace mode now have to stay in peace mode and are not allowed to pay any of the reps until all reps have been paid. That would make their time spent in peace mode entirely worthwhile

[Neo Uruk]

I missed this while I was away? Not going to read it all then

However, I got a good laugh at mhawk's first post.

[MisterShadow]

You want to see impossible terms that are a complete slap in the face?

Here's what \m/ was offered by the NpO.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=2614

In case you didnt know NpO is not equal to NPO. Sponge is also not Moo

[Lord Brendan]

I think they're a bit much, but it's not for me to decide. I didn't win and I'm not in NPO.

More specifically the cash and tech look payable to me. I also do believe NPO when they say they have a problem getting to the 90%.

In a smaller alliance that has a core of active players, I would dismiss that claim, but not for a larger alliance that gets it's members by recruiting noobs. I can easily see players that are uninvolved with poilitics refusing to come out of hippy to get crushed. Moreso with ones that already have been crushed and made it back to Def 6. I think getting curbstomped really does effect the average player.

Best I can figure only a few percent of players are really involved with politics. Most just want to watch their infra numbers get bigger and see new wonders get added to that list on their 'My Nation' screen.

I still don't see the big deal with the 90% figure.

It's not that hard. Start mass PMing all members today saying "On June 20th EVERYONE must switch to war mode. If you are currently in war mode, stay there. Members that stay in peace mode will be considered to be directly disobeying orders and WILL be expelled." Of course, they can add explanations too, as they like.

Then on June 20th, all active and loyal members will come out of peace mode. Everyone remaining in peace mode is either ridiculously inactive (if you don't log in once a week during war time...) or a traitor, so the 90% is easily reached.

[Grand Duke Nevsky]

By rejecting these terms because they are too harsh...do you really believe you would be given lighter terms? Or would you slowly become those who you so solely hate and stay in Peace Mode forever. So much for glory right?

[Raider]

I think they're a bit much, but it's not for me to decide. I didn't win and I'm not in NPO.

More specifically the cash and tech look payable to me. I also do believe NPO when they say they have a problem getting to the 90%.

In a smaller alliance that has a core of active players, I would dismiss that claim, but not for a larger alliance that gets it's members by recruiting noobs. I can easily see players that are uninvolved with poilitics refusing to come out of hippy to get crushed. Moreso with ones that already have been crushed and made it back to Def 6. I think getting curbstomped really does effect the average player.

Best I can figure only a few percent of players are really involved with politics. Most just want to watch their infra numbers get bigger and see new wonders get added to that list on their 'My Nation' screen.

Thank you.

Personnally I disagree. While larger alliance do have a less active membership than smaller ones. The top nations of alliances are usually the most active nations as they've been here on Planet Bob the longest or have risen quickly by actively doing tech deals. This is why I do not believe it when the NPO says they cannot get to that 90%.

[Baldr]

Previously unheard of terms? Were you here when GATO got stomped?

GATO didn't give us billions in cash and hundreds of thousands of tech. GATO sold us some tech, and we paid GATO better than our own tech sellers.

By rejecting these terms because they are too harsh...

I don't believe the problem is that the terms are too harsh. But the "let us nuke down your banks, and then tie your hands on how you can pay the resps" part makes it fall apart.

700 nations, and we can move that tech and that money. With 181 (less, as we now have fewer with 1,000 tech) we can't, especially with many of that 181 starting out at ZI.

If we can't do it, then surrendering gets us nowhere, as Karma will simply attack us again for failure to comply.

[Roadie]

Thank you.

Personnally I disagree. While larger alliance do have a less active membership than smaller ones. The top nations of alliances are usually the most active nations as they've been here on Planet Bob the longest or have risen quickly by actively doing tech deals. This is why I do not believe it when the NPO says they cannot get to that 90%.

No doubt this is true. However, that still leaves that all their members will have to be able to be on the computer when they come out and that all their members will obey the order. Under the currentcircumstance, I'm not convinced the later is anywhere near a sure thing.

[Kristospherein]

You say NPO has never made any terms that forced an opposing alliances nations out of Peace Mode and into War Mode, why friend I must point you to the GATO war of which you are speaking of. During said war, NPO said if any nation was still in Peace Mode after May 3rd, 2008 said nations would either stay in Peace Mode forever, or know death.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=21476

How about you go back, oh about 162 pages, and read the OP. This is already covered. Moo stated that term was never enforced and apologized for it.

[mykep]

I don't believe the problem is that the terms are too harsh. But the "let us nuke down your banks, and then tie your hands on how you can pay the resps" part makes it fall apart.

I believe several people in this 100 page thread have said it.

700 nations, and we can move that tech and that money. With 181 (less, as we now have fewer with 1,000 tech) we can't, especially with many of that 181 starting out at ZI.

Sure you can. MK did it. Athens did it. Even TDSM8 did it. Hell, GATO did work too. Now we have gone from not being able to work with 700 people (stated before) to not being able to work with 181 people. I think you all have to go bak to private channels and get your story straight.

If we can't do it, then surrendering gets us nowhere, as Karma will simply attack us again for failure to comply.

We'd be working with you, not against you at that point.

[James Wilson]

How about you go back, oh about 162 pages, and read the OP. This is already covered. Moo stated that term was never enforced and apologized for it.

Never enforced my $@!. I received AT LEAST 4 PM's from Pacifican nations telling me too leave peace mode or face the consequences. What choice did I have?

[Kristospherein]

Never enforced my $@!. I received AT LEAST 4 PM's from Pacifican nations telling me too leave peace mode or face the consequences. What choice did I have?

You were a special situation. We really really like you.

[Raider]

No doubt this is true. However, that still leaves that all their members will have to be able to be on the computer when they come out and that all their members will obey the order. Under the currentcircumstance, I'm not convinced the later is anywhere near a sure thing.

Again I must disagree. The NPO has shown it is capable of getting many of it's members to be online at the same time for an update blitz that fills page after page. I do not see why they cannot do the same in getting their nations in peace mode out on the same day.

[NoFish]

GATO didn't give us billions in cash and hundreds of thousands of tech. GATO sold us some tech, and we paid GATO better than our own tech sellers.

I don't believe the problem is that the terms are too harsh. But the "let us nuke down your banks, and then tie your hands on how you can pay the resps" part makes it fall apart.

700 nations, and we can move that tech and that money. With 181 (less, as we now have fewer with 1,000 tech) we can't, especially with many of that 181 starting out at ZI.

If we can't do it, then surrendering gets us nowhere, as Karma will simply attack us again for failure to comply.

No, you see, if you make an effort and fail we'll just be like "Oh, well, that's okay, I guess we set the bar a little too high. Let's rework the numbers." Attacking people who surrender is your game, not ours.

As for GATO, are you saying that if we didn't ask for reps you'd accept being put under viceroy? (Assuming there were a way to do it that was legal by the TOS)