New Pacific Order Reps Race

[magicninja]

At the present rate of 471 million/day (plus the original 400 million) the total after 30 days comes to $14,109,000,000

Tech would come to 470,300.

Edit: added 50 million.

Well that certainly takes my view of this into a different light. It won;t even take as long as I thought to rack up some ridiculous numbers.......what a really, really, poor decision by Karma.

[Matthew Conrad]

No, Reps for the war will be fine if they are heavy. In some ways I won;t argue that NPO deserves it but tacking on what may amount to 8-10 billion and 100's of k's of tech should seem outlandish to anybody with a working brain.

That's why I said unfairly heavy

[bbrownso]

It doesn't invalidate the wisdom of judging after the fact, rather than trying to set terms based on something still ongoing. Especially if you want to base it on something like a length of time.

While I don't feel that however absurdly high the reps get as a result of this it will be impossible for the NPO to pay off, the fact is they won't accept it, and while they refuse to accept the number grows, and so on and so forth. The whole ploy is just waiting to blow up in Karma's face. But it's too late to take it back now, if they try to retract it now the NPO will consider it a small victory in their favor, and lord over everyone how the resolve of karma is weakening.

I just wish I knew exactly what Karma was thinking when setting this. Assuming the NPO continues to dig its heels in the longer it goes on the worse it will appear for Karma.

Quoted for truth.

It's amusing to think that Karma backed NPO into an untenable situation militarily and then did the same to themselves on this issue.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Brandon Simonson

[Sir Paul]

Comply with X, and we can all come to the table and haggle over Y.

We are complying with X. We chose to stay in peace mode and you are adding to the total. Good for you.

When you offer peace terms, you'll say "well, it was only going to be Y, just enough to prove you lost the war because we're merciful, good, and better than you, but due to your stubboness, you'll now have to pay us Y + X."

And then we'll say "OK" or "No."

I fail to see the lack of compliance. Besides, you said "haggle over Y." This means that Y is a changing variable, which, in the future, could be anything from infinity to negative infinity.

[deth2munkies]

Two things:

1) There's a catch-22 involved in this: Most everyone saying "ZOMG WTF IS KARMA DOING, REPS TOO HIGH!!" Was recently reminding the very same coalition not to repeat the same mistakes behind GWI. No/low reps = NPO back to precisely where they were pre-war strength wise in a few months, the only thing the war would have done was brought the GRL to ridiculous levels and temporarily removed some of the NPO's treaty partners (you know as soon as they get a semblance of power back, some will come crawling back). But when they give reps designed to cripple the rebuilding process and neutralize the immediate threat, they're suddenly monsters.

The reason behind this (besides the DELICIOUS irony) is to prevent the message brought by this war from being lost on not only the NPO, but on Planet Bob as a whole: You cannot screw around, play god, and treat everyone like crap for too long, else the collective masses rise against you.

2) The tactics the NPO are using are actually pretty intelligent. They've surmised that Karma as a coalition is not precisely stable nor united behind any specific goals, only general ones, thus it is harder to keep together. They just plan on allowing their small nations to get the crap blown out of them till we get bored with the whole spectacle and let them go, then immediately rebuild with all their PM nations and skyrocket back to the top. TBH, they're most likely going to be successful, but I'll be damned if the lessons of this war don't echo throughout history for years to come (if we're still playing then...which after a few years becomes kinda sad, doesn't it? )

[Mogar]

Comply with X, and we can all come to the table and haggle over Y.

As others have stated, you're basically doing the same thing NPO did to FAN, and seem to think they're stupid enough to fall for it.

[magicninja]

That's why I said unfairly heavy

Well of course there will be something to say if Karma really plans on trying to enforce an extra 14 billion and almost all of NPO's tech before terms are even tabled. C'mon now who in Karma really believes they could pull something like that off? I'd table the terms now while NPO might still pay the PM fee. I don;t think you have long on that one.

[TypoNinja]

This presumes they have the money. I can tell you that being at war for 5 weeks puts a pinch on the finances.

Didn't I say top 60 peace mode? That would kind of suggest they haven't been at war no?

Also the math is straight forward;

if

1.08 billion in cash and 18,000 tech takes one day, then add 10 days for every doubling of the (base) amount.

10.8 billion cash and 180,000 tech would take about three months.

Of course that assumes only their top sixty nations pay, if more nations are able to chip in the numbers change drastically.

If we assume 80 nations can pay at the max rate the number jumps to 1.440 billion and 24k tech.

[Blacky]

If NPO's own stubborn nature is what destroys them in the end I guess that wont bother me much.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Blacky

[magicninja]

If NPO's own stubborn nature is what destroys them in the end I guess that wont bother me much.

Except it would be Karma being stubborn by waiting for NPO to come out of peace instead of just taking the extra billion. See? It goes both ways. I'm sure each doesn't want to relent of course but ultimately it is Karma that is holding the keys here.

[Roadie]

Didn't I say top 60 peace mode? That would kind of suggest they haven't been at war no?

Also the math is straight forward;

if

1.08 billion in cash and 18,000 tech takes one day, then add 10 days for every doubling of the (base) amount.

10.8 billion cash and 180,000 tech would take about three months.

Of course that assumes only their top sixty nations pay, if more nations are able to chip in the numbers change drastically.

If we assume 80 nations can pay at the max rate the number jumps to 1.440 billion and 24k tech.

For one, their top 60 aint gonna pay 10.8 billion over 3 months. That's out in lala land somewhere. You might as well be talking about 108 trillion over 3 days.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Roadie

[Rafael Nadal]

We are complying with X. We chose to stay in peace mode and you are adding to the total. Good for you.

When you offer peace terms, you'll say "well, it was only going to be Y, just enough to prove you lost the war because we're merciful, good, and better than you, but due to your stubboness, you'll now have to pay us Y + X."

And then we'll say "OK" or "No."

I fail to see the lack of compliance. Besides, you said "haggle over Y." This means that Y is a changing variable, which, in the future, could be anything from infinity to negative infinity.

When we offer peace terms? That presumes NPO eventually decides to come out of peace mode. You'll be receiving terms if/when NPO decides to come out of peace mode, thus following the proper procedure to procuring peace terms.

I said haggle because most times alliances ask for certain terms to change, or for alternatives to certain terms. Y is not a variable as you are implying.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

GR- Can't find where this GR paid anything to NPO

We actually had to pay a sum that I can't quite remember (100 million? I think? Can someone with a better memory of the whole incident give me the correct amount?) to the NPO in reparations for helping Chimaera, when he was in GR, rebuild because of a clerical error on their part (i.e. Chim went to them and was told he was on ZI, not perma-ZI, and he had already hit ZI) when we sent him 6 million before he was declared upon again by NPO and Valhalla nations. We also had to send a similar amount to Valhalla, but that's beside the point.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Tolkien

[Roadie]

When we offer peace terms? That presumes NPO eventually decides to come out of peace mode. You'll be receiving terms if/when NPO decides to come out of peace mode, thus following the proper procedure to procuring peace terms.

I said haggle because most times alliances ask for certain terms to change, or for alternatives to certain terms. Y is not a variable as you are implying.

Out of curiousity, what is Karma going to do in two weeks when these preterms have made peace impossible?

[magicninja]

When we offer peace terms? That presumes NPO eventually decides to come out of peace mode. You'll be receiving terms if/when NPO decides to come out of peace mode, thus following the proper procedure to procuring peace terms.

I said haggle because most times alliances ask for certain terms to change, or for alternatives to certain terms. Y is not a variable as you are implying.

Proper procedure? You can offer terms at any time. If you actually wait until NPO decides to come out of peace mode to do it then it's going to be one of the biggest mistakes of all time. You're living in a fantasy land brah.

[deth2munkies]

Out of curiousity, what is Karma going to do in two weeks when these preterms have made peace impossible?

Most likely, the threat will not be carried out verbatim, but no terms will be offered at all until PM nations have left, and/or it goes on for so damn long (think VietFAN) that everyone stops caring.

[King Srqt]

I don't see NPO paying these, considering within 2 days they'll be more than the actual terms supposedly are.

they are already very close.

[Rafael Nadal]

For one, their top 60 aint gonna pay 10.8 billion over 3 months. That's out in lala land somewhere. You might as well be talking about 108 trillion over 3 days.

Even if 3 months down the road, NPO finally relents, and Karma decides not to enforce to the letter, and even waive a portion of the peace mode terms, NPO will still be paying more in reps than if they came out now and received their terms.

[magicninja]

they are already very close.

Take the money and run then Karma. You really wont gain anything by waiting.

[magicninja]

Even if 3 months down the road, NPO finally relents, and Karma decides not to enforce to the letter, and even waive a portion of the peace mode terms, NPO will still be paying more in reps than if they came out now and received their terms.

They wouldn't be able to enforce to the letter. It's not even a question. That's where this whole thing becomes really stupid. You guys really thought you were doing something genius huh? Seriously who's idea was it?

[Rafael Nadal]

Take the money and run then Karma. You really wont gain anything by waiting.

We're not in this war as a profiteering adventure. If we were, we would have set high base reps amounts, probably along the lines that you thought of earlier in this topic.

[Stonewall Jaxon]

As others have stated, you're basically doing the same thing NPO did to FAN, and seem to think they're stupid enough to fall for it.

Oddly enough, I like this idea for reasons more than just "Karma." When a standoff like this arises (the NPO-FAN one for example), it will only end when one of the two sides can no longer participate in the standoff. Personally, I think NPO would be a pretty sad FAN imitation in a two-year war, so I say let the standoff happen. I'd love nothing more than to see NPO try to be half of what FAN was

P.S. This gloating combined with my AA may make me sound like a real d-bag right now, but note that I wasn't in FAN for the VietFAN war, so when I talk about how awesome FAN was during VietFAN, I'm not actually talking about myself.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Stonewall Jaxon

[Rafael Nadal]

They wouldn't be able to enforce to the letter. It's not even a question. That's where this whole thing becomes really stupid. You guys really thought you were doing something genius huh? Seriously who's idea was it?

Is getting 100 trillion 4 months down the line very important? No, it's not. If you think the whole premise behind this was to cleverly excavate more money from NPO, you're quite mistaken.

[Roadie]

We're not in this war as a profiteering adventure. If we were, we would have set high base reps amounts, probably along the lines that you thought of earlier in this topic.

Then why the absurd preterms?

[Blacky]

Except it would be Karma being stubborn by waiting for NPO to come out of peace instead of just taking the extra billion. See? It goes both ways. I'm sure each doesn't want to relent of course but ultimately it is Karma that is holding the keys here.

The ultimatum by itself is easily manageable. Obviously Karma has been holding out on offering surrender terms as of yet due to not achieving their objectives. We can infer though that none of these are for the disbandment of the New Pacific Order, and that they actually do expect to receive some form of reparations so beating the New Pacific Order to a state where they could not manage those reparations would also not be an option. The fact remains that regardless of whether or not the nations leave peace mode these objectives will be reached. And so for each day the New Pacific Order postpones the inevitable it's making it worse on themselves.

This happens all the time. I'll give you an example from as recent as the NoCB war. In my former alliance the Greenland Republic one of the objectives of the alliances at war with us was for our alliance to drop below 1 million nation strength, or to wait for the second set of wars to expire. Eventually we would drop to about 800k nation strength with very few nations in peace mode. Yet we still managed a speedy recovery and also managed to pay something like 500m in reps and about 5,000 in technology after being severely beaten and alliance with a fifth the number of nations at the time and also no more than 5 nations in peace mode.