Re: Valhalla

[The King of Town]

Valhalla, you fought honorably and well on the battlefield. Some of the people I was at war with, were real fun to talk to. Glad to see you get peace.

Now I have some phoenix to hunt.

[Andre27]

I'm glad our friends in Valhalla have peace.

[Cataduanes]

Congrats to Kronos...

...for taking a path ODN once took and was made a joke of for years after (some even making jokes of them to this day)

As someone that was around for that GW1 screw up this thread is giving me a profound sense of deja-vu, i find these terms woefully inadequate. Anyone who thinks Valhalla is going to become a 'reformed' alliance post-war is beyond naive and i know that we will all have reason to regret these terms at some point in the future

*Cata awaits the inevitable torrent of Anti-ODN abuse

Glad I wasnt the only one who went straight to GW 1 memories.

Obligatory EDIT: ODN's conduct in this war and what they have done for Vanguard has swayed a man who is not easily swayed though. I love you guys, especially Arsenal

How could any of us GW1 Vets not do so! Its painful to watch the same mistake being made....but on a selfish level at least ODN will not carry the can for this one ....and thanks, it means a hell of a lot to hear comments like that B)

Edited May 11, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Tygaland]

As someone that was around for that GW1 screw up this thread is giving me a profound sense of deja-vu, i find these terms woefully inadequate. Anyone who thinks Valhalla is going to become a 'reformed' alliance post-war is beyond naive and i know that we will all have reason to regret these terms at some point in the future

*Cata awaits the inevitable torrent of Anti-ODN abuse

How could any of us GW1 Vets not do so! Its painful to watch the same mistake being made....but on a selfish level at least ODN will not carry the can for this one ....and thanks, it means a hell of a lot to hear comments like that B)

YOU ARE JUST AS BAD AS "THEM"!!11!!!

[Alicia]

As someone that was around for that GW1 screw up this thread is giving me a profound sense of deja-vu, i find these terms woefully inadequate. Anyone who thinks Valhalla is going to become a 'reformed' alliance post-war is beyond naive and i know that we will all have reason to regret these terms at some point in the future

Trust me, we do not all think that will happen.

[x Tela x]

You quoted

How is this not coordinating military? All alliance remain sovereign alliances and there have been no coordination regarding peace terms or anything like that from any central karma power. How is it wrong to coordinate wars? Did you suddenly get the same moral objection to coordinating wars as you suddenly got towards harsh surrender terms?

edit: When I saw Kradens post in this thread I was actually wondering how long until someone tried to spin it the way you did. I'm impressed that nobody did it for so many pages. You're extraordinary.

You're not even making sense.

Kraden was replying to an RIA government official. His implication was quite clear in his post, that because the wars were sorted by Karma, so should the peace terms be.

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about when you say that I'm "spinning" this. I don't see what there is to actually spin, or gain from spinning, or well, I don't even know what your point is, since you've clearly misunderstood the entire context of my original post, as well as Kraden's. Tyga actually answered my question sufficiently, anyway.

You should be speaking with Kraden, if you want to get uppity with anyone. He's the one that's saying that the "Karma Military Command" should be in on all of the peace talks, since they coordinated the war effort. This clearly isn't happening, and it's clearly upsetting a few people that are missing out on their ounce of blood.

[Cataduanes]

YOU ARE JUST AS BAD AS "THEM"!!11!!!

Sarcasm? or genuine opinion? sorry i am a little confused by your post

Trust me, we do not all think that will happen.

Of course, and for the record i hope your right.

[neneko]

I feel like I need to clear something up. Of course I can't speak for any other alliance but in umbrella the "you're as bad as they are" crowd had absolutely no impact on this decision. This was discussed at the very begining of the war and most people agreed right away that we shouldn't demand any reps if we won. This was our stance all along and I'm glad my leaders stand up for what they think is right.

Either way I can't see how forcing valhalla to send us a few 1000 tech would prevent them from starting any unjust wars in the future. For reps to have any impact at all it'd have to be seriously crippling terms and I don't think anyone signing these papers were ready to give out terms like that. If it's about valhalla giving us some reps as a symbolic thing then it just seems petty.

[Ceremony]

A bit late, but very lenient and friendly terms. The part about leaving enough nukes (to deal with rogues I assume) is good.

[neneko]

You're not even making sense.

Kraden was replying to an RIA government official. His implication was quite clear in his post, that because the wars were sorted by Karma, so should the peace terms be.

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about when you say that I'm "spinning" this. I don't see what there is to actually spin, or gain from spinning, or well, I don't even know what your point is, since you've clearly misunderstood the entire context of my original post, as well as Kraden's. Tyga actually answered my question sufficiently, anyway.

You should be speaking with Kraden, if you want to get uppity with anyone. He's the one that's saying that the "Karma Military Command" should be in on all of the peace talks, since they coordinated the war effort. This clearly isn't happening, and it's clearly upsetting a few people that are missing out on their ounce of blood.

Tyga and I said the same thing though. Either way I think you're the one that misunderstand Kradens posts. Read them again. He's talking about karma deciding wich alliance attacks who not peace terms.

It looked like you were trying to spin it to make it look like we were more of a single organization than we let on. Apparently you just didn't understand his posts though so there's nothing to argue about.

[Tygaland]

Sarcasm? or genuine opinion? sorry i am a little confused by your post

Sorry, I thought you may have read the thread.

It was sarcasm because anyone who says these terms are not harsh enough are automatically branded as "as bad as" the Hegemony.

[Generaal Koos]

Sorry, I thought you may have read the thread.

It was sarcasm because anyone who says these terms are not harsh enough are automatically branded as "as bad as" the Hegemony.

What is the Hegemony?

[Tygaland]

You're not even making sense.

Kraden was replying to an RIA government official. His implication was quite clear in his post, that because the wars were sorted by Karma, so should the peace terms be.

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about when you say that I'm "spinning" this. I don't see what there is to actually spin, or gain from spinning, or well, I don't even know what your point is, since you've clearly misunderstood the entire context of my original post, as well as Kraden's. Tyga actually answered my question sufficiently, anyway.

You should be speaking with Kraden, if you want to get uppity with anyone. He's the one that's saying that the "Karma Military Command" should be in on all of the peace talks, since they coordinated the war effort. This clearly isn't happening, and it's clearly upsetting a few people that are missing out on their ounce of blood.

I believe Neneko was saying the same thing I was. Although the Karma coalition is a loose coalition, the wars have been centrally managed so the "well you should have declared on them" line is ridiculous in the context of the war and how the fronts were handles by Karma.

I believe Neneko was pointing out that you were claiming that a loose coalition cannot coordinate militarily or you were saying that people saying that Karma was a loose coalition were lying.

Both the loose coalition description and the military coordination are not mutually exclusive.

[Tygaland]

What is the Hegemony?

Hegemony are the people I'm as bad as, apparently.

Or it may be the alliances listed here under the title Hegemony:

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Karma_War

Or, as Nizzle suggests, it may be me under the new name of Bizzaro-Moo.

I'll leave you to decide which is most plausible.

[Cataduanes]

Sorry, I thought you may have read the thread.

It was sarcasm because anyone who says these terms are not harsh enough are automatically branded as "as bad as" the Hegemony.

ahh yes i see where you were coming from now .

I just have little faith in Valhalla to be anything other than what it is and in that respect i worry for the future, while it is commendable that Karma's leadership is seeking to do things in a 'new way' i think it is a an error that will come back to haunt us all (or maybe i am just overly paranoid ), maybe sometimes a little evil is necessary to achieve a greater good?

[Anthony]

Hegemony are the people I'm as bad as, apparently.

Or it may be the alliances listed here under the title Hegemony:

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Karma_War

Or, as Nizzle suggests, it may be me under the new name of Bizzaro-Moo.

I'll leave you to decide which is most plausible.

I like Bizzaro-Moo, honestly.

[neneko]

Well it's time for me to leave this thread.

Tyga, While I still disagree with you I don't think you're anywhere near as bad as the hedgemony. I fully understand your stance in this. In your position I can't see myself wanting valhalla get off with (close to) white peace either. I still think that this end to this part of the war will be better in the long run but only time will tell if I'm right. Oh and you're still my favorite poster on owf.

[Tygaland]

Well it's time for me to leave this thread.

Tyga, While I still disagree with you I don't think you're anywhere near as bad as the hedgemony. I fully understand your stance in this. In your position I can't see myself wanting valhalla get off with (close to) white peace either. I still think that this end to this part of the war will be better in the long run but only time will tell if I'm right. Oh and you're still my favorite poster on owf.

Well, all I asked for was understanding so I'm happy to leave it at that.

[Tygaland]

I like Bizzaro-Moo, honestly.

OK, your vote have swayed me. I have updated my custom title to reflect my once hidden agenda.

[Narcicyst]

Woah! Woah! Woah!

I thought we were giving the terms

o/ Kronos.. I enjoyed the battlefield against you!

o/ Our Allies

o/ The Everlasting VALHALLALALALALA!

[Nobama]

OK, your vote have swayed me. I have updated my custom title to reflect my once hidden agenda.

Finally, Bizzaro Moo sees daylight.

[Jeeooh]

So many tears. So delicious.

It was nice fighting you, Valhalla. I'm sad I didn't get to fight Pansy though

[ChairmanHal]

And you disbanded at the behest of Viril and his unctuous supporters, congratulations. We should have fought to ZI and beyond, and if R hadn't been unjustly banned, that's exactly what would have happened.

Hal, the fact that you are trying to spin this cowardice is a new low. At least pull an Mhawk, or something.

This is probably the single most ignorant and hurtful thing you have ever posted in these forums.

1. Vir was long gone by then and had no "unctuous supporters", he had bugged out in the middle of the night and in doing so had dealt a big blow to morale within the alliance.

2. There is no beyond ZI you twit. Your nation goes inactive and you are deleted. \m/ was outnumbered more than three to one, with many of its top level nations staggered and in nuclear anarchy and a significant number of the rest nearing ZI. Even before Vir left we tried to start up a cycle of pulling people back into Peace Mode to regroup and at least attempt to counter attack and it just wasn't happening.

3. R allowed his stubbornness to get the best of him and still does to this day. He is still a hero of sorts to many and he deserves much credit. But Modgate wasn't his shining moment and blame others as much as you want, ultimately you must own what you post here.

4. You don't know what would have happened because YOU were long gone and I thought learning something about life and discipline. The circumstances under which \m/ disbanded were *highly* unusual and it was a decision that was made NOT made lightly.

5. I don't have to "spin" command decisions. I stand by them. You see, you are also calling WC and Jason8 cowards. The vote to disband amongst us was unanimous. Beyond that, you are calling men such as Robert E. Lee and Jonathan M. Wainwright cowards. Google their bios. Come back and tell *me* that their decision to put the lives of their troops ahead of their own personal vanity and the vanity of non-participants was the wrong thing to do.

On second thought, don't bother, you disgust me.

[shahenshah]

After all of the humiliation they heaped upon people, they deserve some in return.

You make a valid point, but I think these terms were just that. Put yourself in their place and you may feel it. I felt it as being on the same side.

Being forgiven by people whome you have tried to beat down for a long time, that would make one ashamed. It would to me atleast.

[Doitzel]

Well, all I asked for was understanding so I'm happy to leave it at that.

That's not fair, I was understanding and you kept yelling at me.