Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[HeroicDisaster]

Don't try to play the innocent card, you did the same thing to a smaller alliance, you are detestable.

[Max Rockatansky]

So the fact that Archon and his buddies are two faced jackals that spout !@#$%^&* from every oriface to make you think they are the harbingers of good while engaging in practices they themselves condemned is lost because of what I've done or not done in the past?

You sir are deluded.

Let me get this straight. I'm deluded because I choose to support people who demand an end to that which you champion. I've known a good chunk of the people I'm fighting with my entire CN career(Beginning in UJW... that's 2 years ago) They've stuck by me through the best and the worst, and through it all they've been there for me. If that makes me deluded then, welcome to the madhouse... I guess.

We have neither nor will we ever engage in:

EZI/PZI

Viceroys

forcing alliances to disband

unnecessarily long conflicts which serve absolutely no purpose other than mindless flexing

and the list goes on...

I think you need to get your facts straight before you start talking so much smack, because this isn't making you look very smart.

[Comedian]

o/ Emperor Moo :jihad:

[Bralor]

This is the beginning of the end for you, my love.

[magicninja]

Let me get this straight. I'm deluded because I choose to support people who demand an end to that which you champion. I've known a good chunk of the people I'm fighting with my entire CN career(Beginning in UJW... that's 2 years ago) They've stuck by me through the best and the worst, and through it all they've been there for me. If that makes me deluded then, welcome to the madhouse... I guess.

We have neither nor will we ever engage in:

EZI/PZI

Viceroys

forcing alliances to disband

unnecessarily long conflicts which serve absolutely no purpose other than mindless flexing

and the list goes on...

I think you need to get your facts straight before you start talking so much smack, because this isn't making you look very smart.

Maybe you haven't done all of that.....yet But with the showing in those logs I think we know what to expect in the future now.

[magicninja]

Don't try to play the innocent card, you did the same thing to a smaller alliance, you are detestable.

At least one person admits these people are no better than NPO.

Good for you.

[atrophis]

NPO is going to fold like a house of cards. And I plan to be there to dance on their grave with my FAN tap dancing shoes.

/me spits.

[Tulafaras]

Maybe you haven't done all of that.....yet But with the showing in those logs I think we know what to expect in the future now.

err no? Did Archon ask for anything like that in the logs? If that is what you read then i'd recommend visiting a doctor.

Frankly your opinion is pretty absurd, you say we are behaving excactly like NPO did in the past, but you couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

NPO started this war, they attacked. Now less than 24h later once they've noticed how big their mistake was they want peace, but instead of asking for peace like a beaten alliance usually does (that being humble and accomodating to the terms) they tried the same game they did during the last negotiations, that being stall.

At the same time their members were happily slinking away into peace mode.

So sorry, but this isn't the game anymore. They will be treated the exact same way as every other enemie has been treated in the past.

[Max Rockatansky]

Maybe you haven't done all of that.....yet But with the showing in those logs I think we know what to expect in the future now.

Yep, you now everything. Everyone else sucks but you. We get it. It's old. It's been old. It's so tired it dropped dead from exhaustion. You really don't have a point to make here do you? Anyway it's time to go prey at the altar of The Metal Gods( or you know, go to sleep). You got anything else to say other than what you're parroting from these other blokes you love so much, let me know. Otherwise, I'm not interested in repeating myself over several threads any longer. I want you to do me a favor though. Have yourself a great day, can you do that for me? Thanks. B)

[magicninja]

Yep, you now everything. Everyone else sucks but you. We get it. It's old. It's been old. It's so tired it dropped dead from exhaustion. You really don't have a point to make here do you? Anyway it's time to go prey at the altar of The Metal Gods( or you know, go to sleep). You got anything else to say other than what you're parroting from these other blokes you love so much, let me know. Otherwise, I'm not interested in repeating myself over several threads any longer. I want you to do me a favor though. Have yourself a great day, can you do that for me? Thanks. B)

I've made my point. You can't refute it so you go on about whatever it is you are going on about.

My day should turn out well enough I suppose.

[magicninja]

err no? Did Archon ask for anything like that in the logs? If that is what you read then i'd recommend visiting a doctor.

Frankly your opinion is pretty absurd, you say we are behaving excactly like NPO did in the past, but you couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

NPO started this war, they attacked. Now less than 24h later once they've noticed how big their mistake was they want peace, but instead of asking for peace like a beaten alliance usually does (that being humble and accomodating to the terms) they tried the same game they did during the last negotiations, that being stall.

At the same time their members were happily slinking away into peace mode.

So sorry, but this isn't the game anymore. They will be treated the exact same way as every other enemie has been treated in the past.

They looked pretty Damn humble to me. They were negotiating of course they were gonna try to get the best for their alliance out of it...who on this planet wouldn't? In the end they accpet all the terms and you guys still left.

Yes, yes it is a game man. Look around you. In the past? I thought this was supposed to be a new Bob with sunshine and rainbows and all that.

Again each post shows just how full of !@#$ you all are.

*shakes his head in disbelief*

[Tulafaras]

since all you are saying is baseless accusations how CAN we refute it?

In all the past wars our alliances have fought we have given fair terms, that is the only evidence we have and that is the only evidence we need.

Seriously, stalling surrender negotiations for hours on end is NOT humble, it cannot be described as humble in any shape or form. Do you want me to analyze the logs sentence for sentence? The first thing Moo did when the discussion started was to try to argue that this was not a surrender. it's literally within the first 20 sentences how in the blazes can you call that humble?

Edited April 22, 2009 by Tulafaras

[o ya baby]

Talk to me when the percentage of nations my alliance in anarchy leaves the single digits.

Hey, fine gentleman. I have something for you.

[Mozaffar]

You have no clue about me and NPO. Go back and read the GATO declaration thread or go ask Slayer how often we talked about things I thought NPO was wrong about.

You wanna bring up the past you better know what you're talking about first.

I look at what you are saying right now, at your behavior. You are condemning Karma for actions that pale in comparison to the crimes of NPO and friends. I see no condemnation of NPO, and I see no admissions of NPO being wrong in any sorts. I call that double standards.

I don't care about your history, it's irrelevant to this debate.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Mozaffar

[magicninja]

since all you are saying is baseless accusations how CAN we refute it?

In all the past wars our alliances have fought we have given fair terms, that is the only evidence we have and that is the only evidence we need.

Seriously, stalling surrender negotiations for hours on end is NOT humble, it cannot be described as humble in any shape or form. Do you want me to analyze the logs sentence for sentence? The first thing Moo did when the discussion started was to try to argue that this was not a surrender. it's literally within the first 20 sentences how in the blazes can you call that humble?

In the end it was a surrender. So your point is moot and please do analyse the logs line by line I would love to hear that fiasco.

[magicninja]

I look at what you are saying right now, at your behavior. You are condemning Karma for actions that pale in comparison to the crimes of NPO and friends. I see no condemnation of NPO, and I see no admissions of NPO being wrong in any sorts. I call that double standards.

The NPO definitely botched this and they probably deserved to be put against a wall and forced to terms. Karma had that but wanted oh so much more. That much is apparent

[Bralor]

If you want my opinion on the matter, while I sympathize with Karma, I think that this war is a result of a failure to listen on both sides. One side continually tries to claim superiority both politically and morally when it is clear that both sides have contributed equally to the degeneration of events that have lead us to where we stand now.

[o ya baby]

The NPO definitely botched this and they probably deserved to be put against a wall and forced to terms. Karma had that but wanted oh so much more. That much is apparent

They shouldn't have even gotten talks to begin with. They deserve this and every single nuke slammed against their foreheads in the near future. I personally can't wait to watch them lose that oh-so-pretty sanction.

[cowen70]

NPO went in there expecting not surrender but negotiation and that coloured the whole talks.

All Karma asked for is that they admit their hypocricy, their pride stopped that but I've no doubt they'll crumble soon enough. Its not double standards to demand honest out of someone who surrenders.

[Emperor Brutus]

Good Luck :lol:

[Wikie]

02[22:06] * Moo-cows Quit (Client exited)

Client Exited is not anywhere near a time-out. Same for Connection interrupted by peer. Time out is when the server kicks your $@! out for not responding to PINGs and the message clearly states time out. Nice try.

As for the terms, they are pure crap, and here is where I agree with NPO.

[magicninja]

They shouldn't have even gotten talks to begin with. They deserve this and every single nuke slammed against their foreheads in the near future. I personally can't wait to watch them lose that oh-so-pretty sanction.

That's fine. Be honest. The fact is there were negotiations which were !@#$ on by Karma.

[Bob Janova]

The NPO clearly stated that they wouldn't be able to accept the 20% soldiers and therefore would not surrender at this time. I don't see what's wrong with counter-attacking given that.

Despite your best efforts to equate this to what you did to OV, the situations are not at all equivalent.

- You started a war in the middle of negotiations, Karma merely did not allow you to end it. Why you thought you could dictate terms as the surrendering party I'm not sure, considering your long history of uncompromisingly imposing terms on others. Just last week you were telling FAN that they needed to fight the war before discussing peace.

- You were stalling in order to send nations to peace mode and escape the whirlwind. You have previously determined this practice to be PZI worthy, but it is certainly disingenious to claim that Karma were negotiating in bad faith when you were sending nations to peace mode in order to escape the war you started.

- Ordo Verde did not fake a ping-out in order to earn more time. This is not a ping-out:

[22:06] * Moo-cows Quit (Client exited)

This is a message you get when someone actively closes their client. A ping-out will show 'Ping timeout'. 'Connection reset by peer' is the result of an unexpected client-side disconnection and can be caused by a connection issue, so you did drop out earlier in the talks, but the convenient exit when you made the decision to send people to PM was not an involuntary disconnect.

[Tulafaras]

The NPO definitely botched this and they probably deserved to be put against a wall and forced to terms. Karma had that but wanted oh so much more. That much is apparent

The first term is fairly simple.

[21:15] <@Archon> The NPO will issue a full, earnest, and sincere apology to Ordo Verde for their rash and unjustified declaration of war.

this term was accepted without much problem, not really surprising since they don't really demand much.

The second term is as follows:

[21:19] <@Archon> The NPO will admit that the casus belli used against Ordo Verde was trumped up and that the NPO over-reacted in an effort to provoke war.

Also a fairly standard term if the CB is contested (and suffice to say this CB was contested on nearly 60 pages, if you want to open up this discussion again please take it to another thread), but unlike the first point it led this led to nearly 30 minutes of discussion before finally the term was accepted in a sense (and if you don't call this stalling i don't want to know what you DO call stalling)

next term was:

[21:41] <@Tygaland> The NPO will pay reparations to Ordo Verde at a rate of 300% the damages dealt. This includes econmic damage dealt as a result of being in peace mode. To ensure that these reparations are paid promptly, the NPO will suspend all tech deals for the duration of these terms.

This led to another long round of stalling since NPO insisted on a number, considering how long the war was at that point and how few nations were involved i think we can all agree that any amount of reps OV could demand would be payable with a single aidwave from NPO's side. but in the end it was agreed.

the last term discussed was: [21:58] <@Archon> In recognition of the tensions caused by the NPO's rash declaration of war, and to ensure peace is maintained, the NPO will hereby decomission their soldiers down to 20% per nation. They will furthermore decommission all CMs, Tanks, Navy, and Aircraft. They must maintain this state for a period of 60 days.

it led to a rather ridiculos discussion of who would protect NPO during this period, with some more stalling added into the mix. at 22:07 according to the timestamp archon delivered the deadline after the flight into peace mode was noted.

at 22:09 when this term wasn't accepted Archon walked out of the negotiations.

So, those were the terms asked for, and you have the gall to call them HARSH? Minimum reparations and a period of disarment......

[BarbulaM1]

I believe this war, more or less a war of the masses in revenge, was really envitible. I doubt there was anything that NPO could have done to stop it, one side was looking for a moral CB to use as a catalyst. It was going to happen no matter what, the CB as to why, however, could have been anything.

*sits here from the Halls of the General Assembly looking out the window, all of the destruction being done to our sworn enemy of ideology, it gives me little fuzzies inside. Spanish cats furball perhaps or sweet revenge without personal consequence?*

The alliance that has so many times broken the moral code of justice in the name of their own internal justice is having justice served up to them with uranium on the silver platter.