Protected Nation

[Slayer99]

I have to wonder why VE felt the need to make this a public announcement. People that leave gov positions are often allowed to ghost in a friendly alliance until they get settled in a new home.

To me, it looks like an attempt to embarrass GGA in what was (and should be) an internal matter.

[Dan Marino]

if i had to choose one word to describe all this it would be "wow" plain and simple

[Virillus]

I have trouble imagining one of your gov, approaching someone that the majority of you had no interest in

Which is why their entire government approached us a month back offering GR an MDP, or at the very least a lower-level PIAT, right?

I understand your point (and I think it's a good one) but the truth is, their entire government had been expressing interest in GR for quite some time now. That discussion was not out of the ordinary in the least.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Virillus

[cookavich]

To me, it looks like an attempt to embarrass GGA in what was (and should be) an internal matter.

It seems that GGA didn't need too much help with that.

[King Srqt]

He had to at least try though, didn't he?

Let's not even get into the fact that free quebec didn't start sanctioning until after VE disbanded because of the oh so honorable and sphere conscience actions of the GGA.

[Epiphanus]

I have to wonder why VE felt the need to make this a public announcement. People that leave gov positions are often allowed to ghost in a friendly alliance until they get settled in a new home.

To me, it looks like an attempt to embarrass GGA in what was (and should be) an internal matter.

Because when BnT said it, it didn't make sense, but now that slayer has said the same thing, it must be true. Please, tell me what reason VE would have to try to embarrass the GGA? It would be like me publicly chastising Nueva Vida for Kicks and Giggles.

Edit: Grammar ftw.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Epiphanus

[King Srqt]

I have to wonder why VE felt the need to make this a public announcement. People that leave gov positions are often allowed to ghost in a friendly alliance until they get settled in a new home.

To me, it looks like an attempt to embarrass GGA in what was (and should be) an internal matter.

Shane was unaligned and granted a single nation protectorate. Many alliances, your allies included have made similar announcements. There was no intent to do anything with GGA.

[KingSuck]

Finally, I'm not sure why you linked to your treaty with GGA. Why did you feel that we needed reminded that you are allies for the 7th time? Are you trying to reiterate that you stand behind them? If so, what are you going to do to help them now, at their time of great need? Were you trying to scare people into shutting up with a thinly veiled threat, as though merely linking to a treaty with the great Valhalla is going to make people hush their mouths instantly and do as you ask out of fear? Because if so, you're no better than GGA with that whole censorship thing.

You're reading into that way too much. I'm pretty sure BnT was just reminding those who have expressed hope throughout this thread that this might be the end of GGA that we will stand by them

[Slayer99]

It seems that GGA didn't need too much help with that.

Internal issues are often potentially embarrassing. That doesn't answer the question.

[ochocinco]

I have to wonder why VE felt the need to make this a public announcement. People that leave gov positions are often allowed to ghost in a friendly alliance until they get settled in a new home.

To me, it looks like an attempt to embarrass GGA in what was (and should be) an internal matter.

You're really stretching, Slayer.

It's pretty common to make public announcements when someone who has suddenly become "high profile" is being protected.

I have to wonder if it were a different alliance, say... TORN, that had made this announcement if you would have made a post like this.

[Lancer]

Which is why their entire government approached us a month back offering GR an MDP, or at the very least a lower-level PIAT, right?

I thought the GGA didn't sign PIAT's...

[Slayer99]

Shane was unaligned and granted a single nation protectorate. Many alliances, your allies included have made similar announcements. There was no intent to do anything with GGA.

The point was why? He could have just as easily ghosted VE (with their permission of course).

We've done that for people...as have others. The only single-nation protectorate I ever considered was franzjosef.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Slayer99

[Ejayrazz]

Yes I do question it.

GGA reluctantly rescinded the Dilrow Doctrine and along came the Jungle Accords? (or whatever its called), since then GGA has been playing pretty nice on Green compared to what they had done to control the Green senate in the past, in so much as GGA dropped a long standing doctrine which was put in place to protect GGA's sovereignty - ironically enough the cause of the Dilrow doctrine was a rogue VE senator called Free Quebec.

Given the colourful history between GGA and VE and with both sides seeking to "build relations" its hard to see this thread as anything other than a bait to GGA. A simple IRC conversation with GGA leadership regarding shaneprice would have done the trick without the need for this circus; either VE government are as inept as the former GGA member they have taken into their ranks or this was a deliberate act to stir up some GGA hate.

Lets be fair, we all know any thread regarding GGA descends into a flamewar, who here honestly thinks VE didnt know that this would stoke a flame thread for GGA? I know I dont.

That doctrine almost killed them, I have no problem stating this. They shouldn't be praised for oppressing an entire color (Which they themselves needed their ALLIES to enforce) and then 'out of the kindness of their merciful heart they dropped it'. No mate, this is completely illogical, they were redundant enough to make an ENTIRE color suffer consequences when, if they truly felt 'threatened', could have oppressed VE by itself. But no, they made an entire color suffer merely because they had big allies - THIS is what caused so much political drama and deterioration in their PR throughout CN.

This thread erupted because of Deph's comments, not because of the thread in itself. In fact, this thread was only 6 pages, once he responded, it skyrocketed to 40. The efforts to blame VE in itself, in my opinion, is a little far-fetched.

[Virillus]

I thought the GGA didn't sign PIAT's...

*shrugs*

They were amicable, friendly discussions. And although nothing proposed worked out (Obviously) there was nothing negative about it in the least.

[Earogema]

I have to wonder why VE felt the need to make this a public announcement. People that leave gov positions are often allowed to ghost in a friendly alliance until they get settled in a new home.

To me, it looks like an attempt to embarrass GGA in what was (and should be) an internal matter.

Vox would have done it if VE hadn't.

[ochocinco]

The point was why? He could have just as easily ghosted VE (with their permission of course).

A better question is why do you care this time, but never before? Suddenly since it was VE who makes this announcement, it must be all about shaming the GGA? Come on, dude - come up with something better or leave it alone.

[King Srqt]

The point was why? He could have just as easily ghosted VE (with their permission of course).

We've done that for people...as have others. The only single-nation protectorate I ever considered was franzjosef.

And many alliances have done it this way in the past as well, it is a different way of doing it but it is equally as accepted and practiced to do it this way, so to say that it was done this way with nefarious intent is ignoring ample precedent.

Edited March 18, 2009 by KingSrqt

[pezstar]

You're reading into that way too much. I'm pretty sure BnT was just reminding those who have expressed hope throughout this thread that this might be the end of GGA that we will stand by them

So then the part of my quote that asks if the point was that you stand behind them was right then, and I wasn't stretching.

[Rebel Virginia]

I have to wonder why VE felt the need to make this a public announcement. People that leave gov positions are often allowed to ghost in a friendly alliance until they get settled in a new home.

To me, it looks like an attempt to embarrass GGA in what was (and should be) an internal matter.

No offense meant Slayer, but I think you're looking into this way too deeply. I quite honestly doubt VE had any idea that this announcement would turn into what it did. Single nation protectorates have been announced many times before, regardless of the reason the nation left whatever alliance they left. This was meant to inform, and not to embarrass.

Unless you're suggesting that VE would have an ulterior motive for wanting damage the PR of some of it's closest allies, which would suggest that there is possibly trouble in paradise. But of course that is ridiculous, because unless I am mistaken, you yourself have stated on several occassions that relations between the allies are as close as ever.

[Earogema]

*shrugs*

They were amicable, friendly discussions. And although nothing proposed worked out (Obviously) there was nothing negative about it in the least.

Yet another alliance destroyed because of Vir.

He wasn't even a member this time

[Stumpy Jung Il]

No, actions have consequences as it should be. However people being afraid to speak out because of attitudes like yours is what has made the world a dull place.

Rarely has a post rang so true. Well said AirMe.

[Theoroshia]

Oh, GGA, how I love you sometimes.

[Slayer99]

You're really stretching, Slayer.

It's pretty common to make public announcements when someone who has suddenly become "high profile" is being protected.

I have to wonder if it were a different alliance, say... TORN, that had made this announcement if you would have made a post like this.

It's a legitimate question. We've allowed people to ghost us when an alliance we were allied to was having internal issues.

Shurukian is an example. We allowed her to ghost us to save TGE the embarrassment of baring the internal issue. When Shuru founded TSI, we gave her a protectorate (with TGE's blessing).

This doesn't seem a stretch to me...and I certainly don't think what VE did is classy or honorable. Their motives in how they handled this are questionable at best.

[Drai]

40 pages for this?

Man you people are bored.

You contributed too...

I thought the GGA didn't sign PIAT's...

I have logs of their gov saying that, then a few lines down in the conversation, giving in and agreeing that they'd be willing to sign one. So it's something they would like to avoid but will do if there's no other options.

[Earogema]

It's a legitimate question. We've allowed people to ghost us when an alliance we were allied to was having internal issues.

Shurukian is an example. We allowed her to ghost us to save TGE the embarrassment of baring the internal issue. When Shuru founded TSI, we gave her a protectorate (with TGE's blessing).

This doesn't seem a stretch to me...and I certainly don't think what VE did is classy or honorable. Their motives in how they handled this are questionable at best.

Well then, expect GGA to cancel the treaty, and leave UJA.