Trouble at the MCXA?

[Earogema]

Anyone can fake logs, watchman. The former spokesman for Agora should know that.

I'll show you how it's truly done.

[25:33] <watchman> Boy, I sure do like Vox! I'm a spy for them

[tekken]

Looking forward to getting better acquainted with TSO

o/ TSO

o/ TOP

[OPArsenal]

Yeah, I was the one that called you #@%$.

Thank you for your honesty, fupresti. It takes a real man to come clean like that.

[OPArsenal]

lol double post

Edited February 23, 2009 by OPArsenal

[maxfiles]

Good luck in pulling through this MCXA after the government decided to go AWOL. After this showing, you're probably better off without them.

we're going to do great after all the dust settles, and as a matter of fact, we want happy people in our alliance.

[Libera]

So each former MCXA member left for their own reasons at the same time, with the same group of people, all for 'something new'.

Is that what you're telling us? This was simply some incredible coincidence that a who's who of the 3rd largest alliance on this planet left at the same time to form an alliance together for 'something new'?

It just so happened that all of your "different reasons" occured simultaneously right?

No.

I said there were overlapping reasons, however each member had other reaons for leaving. I've given out an invite to come and talk to us about the reasons for leaving. That is all I said.

[TonytheTiger]

In what manner does the Order of the Paradox see the CEN secession in the summer of 2007 from TOP as similar to the current TSO secession from MCXA right now? How are they different? If they are not different, why does TOP support TSO now, but still bear animosity for the leaders of the CEN movement going on two years after the event?

The similarity ends the minute you start looking at how the 2 secessions happened. CEN was being planned behind TOP's back for weeks. Not only did Ski and UG undermine the alliance by recruiting from our ranks, but left others in TOP to clean up after them without so much as a heads up. I still feel that had Ski and UG been open about it with the membership, that the CEN would have been legitimate and the parting amiable. TSO happened openly, with the understanding of the outgoing and incoming MCXA leadership. This is why it's a parting on decent terms. TOP has no animosity twards the leaders of the CEN movement, and wish them well. It was 2 years ago. Hope everyone is happy, as this isn't an official TOP answer, and i'm no longer TOP gov't. Just happened to be gov't during the CEN fiasco. It bears little similarity to the current topic though.

Congrads to the Sweet Oblivion.

[Master-Debater]

Wow Im expecting such great things to come from this alliance.

MCXA will be much better off now.

[Sal Paradise]

I've given out an invite to come and talk to us about the reasons for leaving. That is all I said.

Why must they all waste their time coming to you individually, when you could just tell us all right here?

[Earogema]

Why must they all waste their time coming to you individually, when you could just tell us all right here?

I've always wondered the same whenever people say that very same thing.

"Ask me on IRC"

Why don't you just tell us?

[Gruthenia]

I've always wondered the same whenever people say that very same thing.

"Ask me on IRC"

Why don't you just tell us?

Things that nobody believes posted here are more convincing in query, I guess.

[Sal Paradise]

I've always wondered the same whenever people say that very same thing.

"Ask me on IRC"

Why don't you just tell us?

I assume they want to control the information.

The thing is though, the people they would least like to know probably already know. And the rest of us are going to find out eventually, so why the tease?

[jstep]

I suppose since TOP posted their announcement in this thread that this is the place to ask them a question regarding their protectorate, and I want to emphasize this is not meant to be antagonistic, but merely curious:

In what manner does the Order of the Paradox see the CEN secession in the summer of 2007 from TOP as similar to the current TSO secession from MCXA right now? How are they different? If they are not different, why does TOP support TSO now, but still bear animosity for the leaders of the CEN movement going on two years after the event?

EDIT: I see others have brought up CEN before I did. Either way, I'd still be keen to see a Paradox official address the point.

-Z

I know Tony already hit on this but you seem to forget the fact that we have an MDP with MCXA, the communication on this has been open between all 3 parties for a good amount of time. TSO leaves MCXA with the acceptance, if not support of MCXA (they obviously don't want them to leave but understand the situation)

The key difference in these two very different scenarios is that TSO handled the situation diplomatically, keep in mind that the leaders of CEN had run for election less than 3 months before, and were going to be done with their terms less than 3 months after in addition to the fact that they failed to inform anyone before the left (except for those they recruited)

As to animosity for the leaders of the CEN movement, could you provide a specific or any evidence to back this statement?

[Proko]

The similarity ends the minute you start looking at how the 2 secessions happened. CEN was being planned behind TOP's back for weeks. Not only did Ski and UG undermine the alliance by recruiting from our ranks, but left others in TOP to clean up after them without so much as a heads up. I still feel that had Ski and UG been open about it with the membership, that the CEN would have been legitimate and the parting amiable. TSO happened openly, with the understanding of the outgoing and incoming MCXA leadership. This is why it's a parting on decent terms. TOP has no animosity twards the leaders of the CEN movement, and wish them well. It was 2 years ago. Hope everyone is happy, as this isn't an official TOP answer, and i'm no longer TOP gov't. Just happened to be gov't during the CEN fiasco. It bears little similarity to the current topic though.

Congrads to the Sweet Oblivion.

Well, maybe it's a difference of degree, and I can't confess to know much about this, but fundamentally it appears pretty similar.

I mean, the TSO movement was obviously planned, regardless of Libera saying everyone had different reasons. Different reasons or no, this was a coordinated effort to leave MCXA for reasons no one is disclosing, and forums and (clearly) a protectorate were already established. If I understand you correctly, the primary difference was MCXA leadership saying "Hey, we're going to abandon you in a week," as opposed to "I'm going to abandon you now."

[theArrowheadian]

I know Tony already hit on this but you seem to forget the fact that we have an MDP with MCXA, the communication on this has been open between all 3 parties for a good amount of time. TSO leaves MCXA with the acceptance, if not support of MCXA (they obviously don't want them to leave but understand the situation)

The key difference in these two very different scenarios is that TSO handled the situation diplomatically, keep in mind that the leaders of CEN had run for election less than 3 months before, and were going to be done with their terms less than 3 months after in addition to the fact that they failed to inform anyone before the left (except for those they recruited)

As to animosity for the leaders of the CEN movement, could you provide a specific or any evidence to back this statement?

I would like to point out that TSO was the majority of the MCXA government. So they were speaking on behalf of 2/3 parties involved.

Edited February 23, 2009 by theArrowheadian

[jstep]

I would like to point out that TSO was the majority of the MCXA government. So they were speaking on behalf of 2/3 parties involved.

Except for the fact that the new government was consulted and not the old one

[maxfiles]

I would like to point out that TSO was the majority of the MCXA government. So they were speaking on behalf of 2/3 parties involved.

TSO does not speak for MCXA in no way shape or form. our new Co-Chancellors shall do that.

[Penguin]

Perhaps I missed it, but will TSO be remaining on the Blue Team?

[logan1]

Perhaps I missed it, but will TSO be remaining on the Blue Team?

that is what i heard

[Buller]

Well, maybe it's a difference of degree, and I can't confess to know much about this, but fundamentally it appears pretty similar.

I mean, the TSO movement was obviously planned, regardless of Libera saying everyone had different reasons. Different reasons or no, this was a coordinated effort to leave MCXA for reasons no one is disclosing, and forums and (clearly) a protectorate were already established. If I understand you correctly, the primary difference was MCXA leadership saying "Hey, we're going to abandon you in a week," as opposed to "I'm going to abandon you now."

It almost sounds like you should get an understanding of the different situations, before you start spitting out accusing and ignorant posts.

[logan1]

mistake post sorry.

Edited February 23, 2009 by logan1

[Rafael Nadal]

MCXA couldn't figure out which side was more powerful, so they had to divide.

I'll admit it, that made me laugh.

CEN and Universalis are rolling over in their graves.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Also, congrats MCXA, you're much better off without all of them.

[theArrowheadian]

It almost sounds like you should get an understanding of the different situations, before you start spitting out accusing and ignorant posts.

Except what he said sounds about right.

[Penguin]

It almost sounds like you should get an understanding of the different situations, before you start spitting out accusing and ignorant posts.

Well, I guess that is what he is asking for... an explanation of how the situations are fundamentally different.

[Proko]

I know Tony already hit on this but you seem to forget the fact that we have an MDP with MCXA, the communication on this has been open between all 3 parties for a good amount of time. TSO leaves MCXA with the acceptance, if not support of MCXA (they obviously don't want them to leave but understand the situation)

The key difference in these two very different scenarios is that TSO handled the situation diplomatically, keep in mind that the leaders of CEN had run for election less than 3 months before, and were going to be done with their terms less than 3 months after in addition to the fact that they failed to inform anyone before the left (except for those they recruited)

As to animosity for the leaders of the CEN movement, could you provide a specific or any evidence to back this statement?

Again, it just seems a difference of degree, not of principle. An alliance's government bailed wholesale on their membership in both CEN and TSO. In both cases, a membership was presented with an announcement from its leadership that all were leaving. Of course, the reasons for the departures may be entirely different, but as I said I know little about CEN and even less about TSO. The only difference, as I stated, is one said "We will be leaving now" and the other said "We will be leaving soon." I guess I just don't see it.

I had just written a fairly long argument regarding the hostility against particularly Ski from TOP leadership, namely Crymson, until I decided to do a bit more research and I discovered I was mistaken. I had taken for granted his suspension from Polar government, per the secret terms that have since been confirmed by both Grub and Crymson, was a stipulation put forth by TOP and primarily because of CEN. After re-reading some posts Crymson made to edify Polar government, I was reminded not only was CEN not the principle reason for Ski's suspension, but TOP not the principle agent for it. In any event, I have no strong substantive backing for that argument and thereby, with respects, withdraw it.