blackeagle Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Oh you know what I'm referring to then? I am referring to you pretending like you know anything...the plan was not march, you could have figured out it was april by just reading jose's post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 It wasn't a secret, though. It was leaked only a few days after we began talking about this whole thing, meaning plenty of people were able to make their own decision and ask to join. I thought it was leaked on the 16th? By then (going by Sam's post in the Q forums) 90% of the MCXA gov were on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Again, you overlook the fact that we originally planned to announce our existence on the 2nd of April, not the 23rd of February. Wouldn't it have made more sense to start phasing out your government as soon as you knew you were going to leave? I mean... you all ran for government. Wasn't there any thought put in to at least some transitional government members? Wouldn't your term then have expired at the end of April thus meaning you all ran for election with the understanding that you would all have to resign sometime during the term? I'm not saying you intentionally harmed MCXA, but that just seems a little poorly planned to me. Unless there's an explanation I'm missing here; I might have my election timetables incorrect or something. Edited February 26, 2009 by Penguin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theArrowheadian Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I am referring to you pretending like you know anything...the plan was not march, you could have figured out it was april by just reading jose's post Well it seems you have no clue as to what I'm referring to and to clarify I heard multiple dates and really does the date matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor José Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Staying until April? Why would you join an alliance you never planned to commit fully to? Because I was fed up with MCXA, and couldn't stay there any longer. Thee environment was too hostile, too aggressive, too untrustworthy. I planned to commit fully to USN until TSO was announced. What else would I do? Stay unaligned? Ghost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackeagle Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Wouldn't it have made more sense to start phasing out your government as soon as you knew you were going to leave? I mean... you all ran for government. Wasn't there any thought put in to at least some transitional government members? Wouldn't your term then have expired at the end of April and thus meaning you all ran for election with the understanding that you would all have to resign sometime during the term? I'm not saying you intentional harmed MCXA, but that just seems a little poorly planned to me. Unless there's an explanation I'm missing here; I might have my election timetables incorrect or something. If the forming of TSO was not rushed we could have easily planned a transitional council in the period between feb and april. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenzilla Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Because I was fed up with MCXA, and couldn't stay there any longer. Thee environment was too hostile, too aggressive, too untrustworthy. I planned to commit fully to USN until TSO was announced. What else would I do? Stay unaligned? Ghost? Red sphere under the NPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some-Guy Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 With all the shady dealings that occurred, I wonder if TOP will be removing that protectorate treaty?I for one wouldn't want to be protecting someone who already showed an inability for full disclosure. Paradoxia will not be ending its protectorate of TSO over this matter. I heard TOP is MDPing TSO. Your source, if one exists in reality, is not correct. I will however yield that the possibility has a chance of occurring in the future. ...This is the OWF, and common sense is NOT allowed here, thank you very much. I like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 So how many alliances did TSO pouch from? As I've read the last couple pages in posts, I see Jose with a USN irc tag and getting a text about Project 91. Then I see Valashu stating that he was in FOK and was notified of the creation of this alliance. And to rush the date from April 1st (hahaha April fools day nice choice). If people had any respect for those they've been working with and been build an alliance for as long as it been stated by most of TSO, then there shouldn't of been some secret conspiracy to create an alliance. It should of been "Hey guys, MCXA isn't working for me anymore and I'm going to go do my one thing. At the end of my term." or "I'm stepping down to do my own thing, and I'm appointing "So and So" as my successor." But doing things logical out of this group doesn't seem to be in anyones language of caring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor José Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I thought it was leaked on the 16th?By then (going by Sam's post in the Q forums) 90% of the MCXA gov were on board. Which doesn't amount to 40+ people. Wouldn't it have made more sense to start phasing out your government as soon as you knew you were going to leave? I mean... you all ran for government. Wasn't there any thought put in to at least some transitional government members? Wouldn't your term then have expired at the end of April and thus meaning you all ran for election with the understanding that you would all have to resign sometime during the term? I'm not saying you intentional harmed MCXA, but that just seems a little poorly planned to me. Unless there's an explanation I'm missing here; I might have my election timetables incorrect or something. Look, I'm not going to claim that this was perfectly executed by any stretch of the imagination. Of course we made some mistakes. Now, campaigning started long before this talk of TSO even began, so of course we ran. The day elections started we began discussions (yes, just a coincidence, for those of you who would immediately jump to a different conclusion). The day they ended we had to move our declaration of existence plan ahead. I assume we would have attempted to train other members who planned on staying put throughout the term, so when we left the transition would be smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor José Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 So how many alliances did TSO pouch from?As I've read the last couple pages in posts, I see Jose with a USN irc tag and getting a text about Project 91. Just a quick clarification: I was in MCXA still when the discussions started, so it was hardly poaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) If the forming of TSO was not rushed we could have easily planned a transitional council in the period between feb and april. All right, I can't imagine a scenario where I would run for an office that I didn't intend to fill for the duration of the term. Can I ask if you at least planned to inform the voters that you would not be fulfilling the entirety of the term during the election? I guess that seems like something I'd want to know if I was a voter. Edited February 26, 2009 by Penguin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanViking Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Which doesn't amount to 40+ people.Look, I'm not going to claim that this was perfectly executed by any stretch of the imagination. Of course we made some mistakes. Now, campaigning started long before this talk of TSO even began, so of course we ran. The day elections started we began discussions (yes, just a coincidence, for those of you who would immediately jump to a different conclusion). The day they ended we had to move our declaration of existence plan ahead. I assume we would have attempted to train other members who planned on staying put throughout the term, so when we left the transition would be smooth. So why didn't you still carry out these plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuromancer7 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) This isn't clarity on two counts. You personally haven't caught them, and you're basing it on what you consider dishonorable. I can name a couple of dishonorable things they've done. I'll bet you that Polaris can name twenty. Sorry for ignoring the rest of your post, but this is a common misconception that I feel deserves a reply While I don't think that any alliance deserves the kind of Curb stomping that Polaris got. Polaris comes FAR close to deserving it then any other I've seen. Prior to the events leading up to that Curbstomping, I was Secretary of State for my previous alliance, and alliance that was quite close to NpO and considered them to be good friends. Especially certain senior members of their government, who shall remain nameless. To the extent that certain members of My alliances, on occasion myself included, somewhat liberally interpreted the mutual intelligence clause of our treaty with them. After what Polaris pulled during the events leading up to their Curbstomping, I learned quite differently. At this point, I would be forced to double check if the Polaris Government told me that the sky was blue. And I wouldn't sign a treaty with them under any circumstances at all. As for those certain former senior members of their government, they are so lost to the concept of honor as to be beneath contempt. The MCXA had so many legit Casus Beli that I knew of as an ally of both parties that I had NO qualms of joining them just prior to an oncoming war. I'm sure most of you will ignore this, or demand logs. But the logs that I have I am not at liberty to disclose. And frankly, if I was going to make this up, It's child's play to fabricate logs which I'm sure mot of you know. It really boggles my mind that everyone demands logs as proof... Edit: Oh apologies to both the guilty and the innocent involved. But truth is truth. Edited February 26, 2009 by Neuromancer7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor José Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 So why didn't you still carry out these plans? Apparently you didn't read any of my previous posts about how we got rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackeagle Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 All right, I can't imagine a scenario where I would run for an office that I didn't intend to fill for the duration of the term. Can I ask if you at least informed (planned to inform) the voters that you would not be fulfilling the entirety of the term during the election? When I posted my desire to run for HC elections the TSO was not even being discussed, so I ran with no bad intent. By the time voting started I was low enough in the polls to where that wouldn't have been necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanViking Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Apparently you didn't read any of my previous posts about how we got rushed. Rushed to Abandon MCXA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 While I don't think that any alliance deserves the kind of Curb stomping that Polaris got. Polaris comes FAR close to deserving it then any other I've seen. Prior to the events leading up to that Curbstomping, I was Secretary of State for my previous alliance, and alliance that was quite close to NpO and considered them to be good friends. Especially certain senior members of their government, who shall remain nameless. To the extent that certain members of My alliances, on occasion myself included, somewhat liberally interpreted the mutual intelligence clause of our treaty with them.After what Polaris pulled during the events leading up to their Curbstomping, I learned quite differently. At this point, I would be forced to double check if the Polaris Government told me that the sky was blue. And I wouldn't sign a treaty with them under any circumstances at all. As for those certain former senior members of their government, they are so lost to the concept of honor as to be beneath contempt. Well, I think we were pretty much just sitting around waiting to be hit by that point, so we didn't really pull anything under the new government. I'm sorry you hate us so much. It is blue by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Which doesn't amount to 40+ people. Maybe not, but the point still stands. Its been mentioned plenty of times, including in the logs you provided, that someone spoiled it by leaking the news early. If you wanted it kept a secret you dont go around telling your entire gov and a few others unless you have a motive behind it, especially not a couple of months in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Because I was fed up with MCXA, and couldn't stay there any longer. Thee environment was too hostile, too aggressive, too untrustworthy. I planned to commit fully to USN until TSO was announced. What else would I do? Stay unaligned? Ghost? You could go to Red and enjoy the benevolent NPO's Revenge Doctrine. Go to peace mode unaligned. Join the Citadel Trading Company, perhaps. There are plenty of possibilities. Or, you could have done exactly what it appears you did: Start putting into effect the part of the alleged TSO plan where people were to disperse one or two a time to different alliances, and then get back together to re-form TSO. If this had gone on until April, I wonder how many alliances would have been affected. That whistleblower may have been doing you a favour, not everyone likes being treated as a revolving door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor José Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Rushed to Abandon MCXA? I shouldn't even respond since I said I would only answer to polite, thoughtful questions, but rushed to form TSO, thanks to a rather unfortunate leak of information. Not abandon MCXA. It may look like that from the outside looking in, but as I said, that was never my intention. If our intention was to abandon MCXA, we would have up and left the moment our plan was leaked rather than at least attempting to give forewarning and transition peacefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuromancer7 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) Well, I think we were pretty much just sitting around waiting to be hit by that point, so we didn't really pull anything under the new government. I'm sorry you hate us so much. It is blue by the way. This was earlier. When NpO Gov were trying to use the FCC to break up Citadel and Through Citadel The Continuum. Again, Apologies to both the somewhat guilty and the innocent. Edit: Thankfully I have a window handy... so I still don't have to rely upon your word. Edited February 27, 2009 by Neuromancer7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffyewunga Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Just a quick clarification: I was in MCXA still when the discussions started, so it was hardly poaching. Depends how u look at it really Considering TSO is invite only u could have only joined them in 1 of 2 ways. Either you were a loyal member of USN and got invited to join TSO which is Poaching or you were always planning to leave and were just using us a shield which in my book is spying. Considering Arvili had to be kick/banned from our members channel after he changed his AA i'm thinking it was the latter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Because I was fed up with MCXA, and couldn't stay there any longer. Thee environment was too hostile, too aggressive, too untrustworthy. I planned to commit fully to USN until TSO was announced. What else would I do? Stay unaligned? Ghost? Were you up-front about your intentions with the USN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeline Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 over 1000 posts, omg I think what could have been said has been, TSO clearly are not going to come out and admit there wrong doings now are they. TOP maybe some corn flakes to help wake you up to what's going on ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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