CNRP OOC Thread

[Uberstein]

[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1288145858' post='2493971']
Aw, poor little iKrolm doesn't know the long-standing 'wonders are exempt for personal flavor RP' stuff that goes around.

It's okay, now you know. And knowing is half the battle.
[/quote]
Nice to know that our GM likes to talk down at other people. A great example of how somebody in a position of power should act.

People can have opinions other than your own you know. Tech issues are far from simple, and there is obviously disagreement over if wonders cover FTL or not. You don't need FTL tech to get to Mars. There are many plans that show how you can do it without FTL because it's a fact they've had to plan around. I suggest you actually listen to the issue and come up with a mature decision instead of toting around an angry, arrogant attitude.

Edited October 27, 2010 by BaronUberstein

[Justinian the Mighty]

[quote name='BaronUberstein' timestamp='1288154196' post='2494065']
Nice to know that our GM likes to talk down at other people. A great example of how somebody in a position of power should act.[/quote]

He's not as bad as he was the first time he was a GM, but if you know him well enough from IRC, he's just being his usual self.

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='Justinian the Mighty' timestamp='1288195884' post='2494288']
He's not as bad as he was the first time he was a GM, but if you know him well enough from IRC,[b] he's just being his usual self.[/b]
[/quote]

Which isn't a comfort at all .

[Triyun]

I believe the counter to Lavo's FTL drive would be that if his stuff is ruled illegal, a lot of other stuff should as well. I for one would favor a much more restrictive policy on technology. It is unlikely that anyone would build a space elevator, nor it likely that anyone would build a complete AI. I'd also like to point out that someone having SOSUS grids that insta detect subs, or radar that insta detect Stealth is also almost completely improbable by 2020. Subs are becoming more quite and harder to detect. The claims of detecting the F-22 at any meaningful range are almost universally considered propaganda (you can detect the plane, but not before the F-22 is in range to fire its weapons). All of this is equally BS. Stealth is much more costly and has drawbacks in other areas, but every nation is developing stealth fighters as their next gen as evidence of belief of experts in its viability.

I personally would be in favor of GM enforcement of technology fielded which actually effects the balance of power between nations and concentrating on bringing that into 2020 compliance first.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Triyun

[Zoot Zoot]

^^ what he said.

[Uberstein]

My god, I'm agreeing with Triyun.

Technology isn't magic.

[Biohazard]

Too bad it still won't happen.

[Executive Minister]

While I agree with Triyun on this matter, I would have to say having a fully operable canon FTL drive in CNRP is much more damaging than the issue he pressed. While I am not advocating for overpowered SOSUS, radars, space elevators, complete AIs and railguns to remain as integral a part of CNRP as they currently are, they are nothing in comparison to an FTL drive. While the previous might possibly be explainable with enough technobabble RP and abstract HHAYD-esque reasoning to warrant a tentative 'acceptance', nothing can truly eliminate or tone down the absolute impossibilities of FTL travel.

Again, I request a formal clarification from Lavo or Sargun that this RP is merely an internal non-canon one.

[Sargun II]

Of course it's an internal pseudo-canon one. By pseudo-canon I mean that for the purposes of having a wonder it's canon, but only for internal purposes and people are free to believe otherwise and nobody is forced to say it's FTL. Further, I've instructed Lavo in very clear terms that this is for the internal purpose of a wonder [b]only[/b], and when he attempted to trade it to Triyun I told them both I'd take it away and start a discussion with the rest of the GMs about the reevaluation of wonders.

@Uberstein: quit whining, helot.

[Uberstein]

[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1288226857' post='2494635']
Of course it's an internal pseudo-canon one. By pseudo-canon I mean that for the purposes of having a wonder it's canon, but only for internal purposes and people are free to believe otherwise and nobody is forced to say it's FTL. Further, I've instructed Lavo in very clear terms that this is for the internal purpose of a wonder [b]only[/b], and when he attempted to trade it to Triyun I told them both I'd take it away and start a discussion with the rest of the GMs about the reevaluation of wonders.

@Uberstein: quit whining, helot.
[/quote]
It isn't whining, though that is your typical response to criticism. Good work, I'm sure your rudeness will get you far. Maybe if you insult me some more I'll be quiet! Also, seeing as I am neither a Laconian, nor a serf, I cannot be a helot.

Edited October 28, 2010 by BaronUberstein

[Kankou]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1288199438' post='2494328']
I'd also like to point out that someone having SOSUS grids that insta detect subs.... Subs are becoming more quite and harder to detect. [/quote]

On the contrary, SOSUS is still the best way to detect subs aside from MADs. No matter how quiet you make a sub, a very sensitive static hydrophone would be able to listen. Of course, they're not that useful in busy routes, hence why they're installed in the GIUK gap.

The main problem with SOSUS in CNRP, however, is that they've been installed as if they're fences. The amount of time and money to hide a SOSUS network restricts their use to relatively shallow and inactive areas. Trying to put a SOSUS network in the South China Sea would mean every nation around the area would likely see where the network was installed (this is why I RPed knowing iKrolm's system, since not only did he instantly install the system, but he installed it in non-territoroal waters). Also, people seem to forget that SOSUS is a LINE, not an area listening system.

In addition, I've seen absurd versions where we have a line stretching from Taipei to Guam (if I'm correct). The depth of the line in question means the network would unlikely be able to listen to non-deep water subs, never mind having to deal with maintaining such a system under that deep a pressure.

[king of cochin]

Effectiveness of a SOSUS only comes in evidence after a long time needed for calibration. A long SOSUS is effectively a long antenna that can catch signals of extremely low frequencies. However the ocean floor is a mess of frequencies such as these and an uncalibrated SOSUS would not be able to distinguish a sub from tectonic frequencies. However over a large time of calibration a SOSUS can be tuned to filter out ambient noise and detect an unknown transient. Again this transient may be of natural origin, but the nature of this transient, maybe if its rhythm would enable the SOSUS operators to detect a submarine. And yes, a well calibrated SOSUS with a highly sophisticated filter system can detect even the most quietest subs, because even those subs produce noise. When you have two SOSUS arrays, you are also able to get a triangulation thus making interdiction easier. Besides the ridges in ocean floor which are the best locations for subs to hide in can also be monitored using MADs, though then again, it would be unreasonable if not impossible to put Magnetic Anomaly Detectors everywhere.

[Lestari]

Does anyone know of a Cold-War era defense system that can be used in a city during peacetime (for wartime preparedness)?

I'm not sure if it's even entirely logical to place defense systems in cities during peace time >_>

[Justinian the Mighty]

A wall and several thousand Soviet troops.

[AironthFlamewing]

LULZ!!!! Thanks for the laugh Justin

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='dotCom' timestamp='1288235947' post='2494851']
Does anyone know of a Cold-War era defense system that can be used in a city during peacetime (for wartime preparedness)?

I'm not sure if it's even entirely logical to place defense systems in cities during peace time >_>
[/quote]

What do you mean? Like a SHORAD?

[Biohazard]

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1288237254' post='2494864']
What do you mean? Like a SHORAD?
[/quote]
I think he should just take Justinian's suggestion...

[Lestari]

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1288237254' post='2494864']
What do you mean? Like a SHORAD?
[/quote]
Well, I already have (or rather, I am already working on) mobile surface to air capabilities, so no, not a SHORAD. I mean something that can target ground forces...I'm not sure if it would be downright ridiculous to do so in peacetime, but I notice a lot of people get called out for suddenly having defenses pop out of nowhere, and I don't want that to happen to me.

[Kankou]

You know, dotCom is sure making very advanced weapons compared to his IG tech.

[Lestari]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1288239195' post='2494884']
You know, dotCom is sure making very advanced weapons compared to his IG tech.
[/quote]
If you're referring to things like the M1A2 battle tank or the F22 fighter, for example, those were [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=92970&view=findpost&p=2472462"]bought from Selenarctos[/url].

All other weapons/equipment is well within the 'Cold War' era requirement for my tech level IG, as I made sure of before I began them.

[Kankou]

50 tech is not even Cold War, it'll be the early 1950's at best. There's a reason why it's from 0 to 499 tech. Even if we do say it's all of the Cold War era, the Tomahawk was put into service in 1983, which would be "Modern Nation".

Edited October 28, 2010 by Kankou

[Lestari]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1288239742' post='2494891']
50 tech is not even Cold War, it'll be the early 1950's at best. There's a reason why it's from 0 to 499 tech. Even if we do say it's all of the Cold War era, the Tomahawk was put into service in 1983, which would be "Modern Nation".
[/quote]
The tech scale clearly states '0-499 tech: COLD WAR TECHNOLOGY'. It doesn't say '0-50: 1950s tech'. 1983 was the Cold War, sorry. The Cold War ran up until 1990 as far as I'm concerned, though it really ended in 1991 with the fall of the Soviet Union.

Modern Tech, I assume, is technology we have today (which, as it happens, is what most people mean when they say 'modern'), from 1990-2010.

[Kankou]

One can hardly call the 1980's as "Cold War" when almost all the technology developed during that period were used in the Gulf War, AKA Modern nation era. We can argue this out, but I'll let a GM who's typing speak first.

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='dotCom' timestamp='1288239124' post='2494881']
Well, I already have (or rather, I am already working on) mobile surface to air capabilities, so no, not a SHORAD. I mean something that can target ground forces...I'm not sure if it would be downright ridiculous to do so in peacetime, but I notice a lot of people get called out for suddenly having defenses pop out of nowhere, and I don't want that to happen to me.
[/quote]

Area Denial Weapons are a bit advanced much. I am unaware of any system specifically designed to attack land targets aside from machine gun positions or artillery.

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1288239742' post='2494891']
50 tech is not even Cold War, it'll be the early 1950's at best. There's a reason why it's from 0 to 499 tech. Even if we do say it's all of the Cold War era, the Tomahawk was put into service in [b]1983, which would be "Modern Nation".[/b]
[/quote]

Oh god... not that argument again.

I get it, some history buffs do not regard the complete dissolution of the USSR in 1991 to be the actual end of the Cold War, but some earlier date where the Union and the States got together and made some sort of agreement or something. Generally, the actual division between Cold and Modern within CNRP is made in the late 80's, so I think the hawks should be fine.

As for 50 tech not being Cold War, its below 499 tech, therefore it is in the bracket. I am unaware of any subdivisions within the tech scale, and have operated under such assumptions while being in Dot's position.

EDIT: clarity

Edited October 28, 2010 by Executive Minister

[Lestari]

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1288240283' post='2494901']
Area Denial Weapons are a bit advanced much. I am unaware of any system specifically designed to attack land targets aside from machine gun positions or artillery.
[/quote]
It wouldn't have to be particularly advanced, just a system that could be used to combat an enemy attacking a city. It could be used as a last-resort scenario, if the city is taken, to cause damage to the enemy even if it causes damage to the city's infrastructure.