Daenerys Targaryen Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Knowing that then why recruit Defcon 1 nations to balance things out? I mean you had SDIs, cash, and infra we cant have 1 of the 4 advantages? No one knew exactly how it would play out. Most of us were actually worried but we fought back and outmaneuvered you at almost every turn. Our SDI's came through and you went from an AVG NS of +16k to just below 13k within a day, before D1 could make a big impact with their nukes. And i think everyone is more upset at the timing of hitting us. This is your first war of the round while its our 3rd war, we were 3 days out of our previous war, with 5 of our members still in nuclear anarchy. What did we do to deserve that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the wompus Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 "to have a chance to take out those larger nations....good, bad or otherwise."  I can see your point. However, I don't think you see ours. We weren't "playing the victim card" for ourselves. 15 OP nations could have hit our top 5 and we still would have had enough money after the war to rebuild and come out just as rich as we were pre-war (perhaps barring a bunch of IRS ops). We were "playing the victim card" because of our lower tier. I understand you wanted to take out our top nations. But if that was the prime objective, why hit our nations who had taken the brunt of the damage in the WDs war and were still in (or just coming out of) anarchy?   I get your point very clearly.  The vast majority of your top nations were out of anarchy and had collected (Not all, but most).  We could not leave the other nations free....one collection they'd be right back in it fully restocked.  The biggest fish to fry was clearly the top tier.  Regardless of how it was done....your top tier (which was about 1/2 of your nations) was impressively STACKED.  Your 'smaller' nations weren't exactly helpless either just for the record.  You're a good example of why OP would have been rolled by us even without the D1 nations. I'm done with this issue.  You are dead wrong and living in a dream world.   During their blitz they only sent our top nations CM's and they sent our nations still in anarchy full attacks including coordinated quads. This war was about screwing their rounds the most.  Paul already more or less addressed this.  Maybe you have never been at such a disadvantage, but sometimes even a quad is a long shot.  The size advantage for our top few nations WAS that large.    You brought it upon yourselves by hitting while we had nations in Nuke Anarchy. If not for that, we would have had good ol fight. I never wanted the extra 100k NS, but regardless of what anyone says we NEEDED their 20 odd nukes.  They brought much more to the table than the 20 nukes though.  I'm confident it would have been a "good 'ol fight" as things were at the time of the declaration.   Obviously you felt your guys couldn't handle it and did what you had to do.  I honestly didn't anticipate you bringing in reserves, so well played I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerys Targaryen Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 You could have hit TPC or D1 who were closer in stats and hadn't seen war in a week or more which begs to differ, why didn't OP hit them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerys Targaryen Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Paul already more or less addressed this. Â Maybe you have never been at such a disadvantage, but sometimes even a quad is a long shot. Â The size advantage for our top few nations WAS that large. Maybe I've never been at such a disadvantage? I don't think OP ever has because you're normally attacking weaker and less experienced alliances. Â No, you just never tried because you wanted those resources to hit those still in anarchy so they had to collect with the anarchy penalties. It worked as you probably know but its not something we'll forget about in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul711 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 No one knew exactly how it would play out. Most of us were actually worried but we fought back and outmaneuvered you at almost every turn. Our SDI's came through and you went from an AVG NS of +16k to just below 13k within a day, before D1 could make a big impact with their nukes. And i think everyone is more upset at the timing of hitting us. This is your first war of the round while its our 3rd war, we were 3 days out of our previous war, with 5 of our members still in nuclear anarchy. What did we do to deserve that? Negative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerys Targaryen Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Just quit trying to play the victim. You attacked us remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul711 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Just quit trying to play the victim. You attacked us remember. And you called in help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 (edited) And you called in help.  For hitting us while some were still in Nuclear Anarchy. In the end, it was 15 nuclear OP nations versus TE's top 5 nations who together had a grand total of 2 nukes. You should be glad  people are still willing to stand up to injustice. How soon we forget history, paul.  I'm just glad most of OP won't be able to rebuild. But it's okay, there's always next round guys! Edited September 14, 2014 by Secret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Omaha Omaha ready set, Op sends peace we can stop the bombs! That's a solution, not a taunt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieG Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 They brought much more to the table than the 20 nukes though. Â I'm confident it would have been a "good 'ol fight" as things were at the time of the declaration. Â Â Â Â They did indeed, and you brought that upon yourself. Had you come say even 2 updates later then that at least gives us a chance. What you did was low. And in my mind you have been duly punished. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the wompus Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Duly punished strongly due to your bringing in the reinforcements? Historically reinforcements have only been utilized in the event of a curbstomp. (Remember the months of crying after the op/re/le battle many rounds ago?....Just sayin). As far as low goes....perhaps folks in glass houses should not throw rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 That OP RE LE battle was in round # 10 if I recall right. Thats when I was Emperor of RE. As for this time, had you been warring two wars and not out of anarchy we would have been helping you! Simple solutions, admit your mistaken call off the war. Greatest respect for you Haluski, call it a day, re-up. We can battle again more on your terms later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieG Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Duly punished strongly due to your bringing in the reinforcements? Historically reinforcements have only been utilized in the event of a curbstomp. (Remember the months of crying after the op/re/le battle many rounds ago?....Just sayin). As far as low goes....perhaps folks in glass houses should not throw rocks. Â As it turns out, our SDIs have been very worthwhile, and we also have probably gotten a bit lucky. Regardless, your MASSIVE nuclear advantage, coupled with you deliberately hitting us while we had just gotten out of war, with multiple nations still in anarchy breaks all the norms and acceptable standards of TE combat. Â Historically, OP is one of the only AAs that would intervene into "curbstomps" as you call it. With everything being subject to opinion, you have made your moves. Â How low can you go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieG Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Historically reinforcements have only been utilized in the event of a curbstomp. (Remember the months of crying after the op/re/le battle many rounds ago?....Just sayin). Are you referring to the round that Duckroll OP relations broke down when you hit RE after they hit LE? Because if you are, that war wasnt merely that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieG Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Peace has been reached at this update, as OPs original wars expire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 OP still has too much infrastructure. It's unfortunate none of you are in my range or will be in the foreseeable future; your ceiling is 50% of my nation strength. Bank on it. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the wompus Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Â It's unfortunate none of you are in my range.. Â Â Â Be sure to send D1 a thank you card. Â ...or will be in the foreseeable future; your ceiling is 50% of my nation strength. Bank on it. Â Â Did you check with the D1 guys to be sure they'd be available to cover for you again? Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurdanak Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I hate everyone in Avengers for how many casualties you're amassing. :P Edited September 16, 2014 by Kurdanak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited)  Be sure to send D1 a thank you card.   Did you check with the D1 guys to be sure they'd be available to cover for you again?   Yes because it was all D1 :rolleyes:  Oh, halushki, hopefully you've learned not to hit alliances straight out of war. No worries, as paul always says, there's always next round. At-least you guys got an early break, consider it a 30 day round for you. Edited September 16, 2014 by Secret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Blitzkrieger Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014  Did you check with the D1 guys to be sure they'd be available to cover for you again?   You keep making the same point, time after time. We would have won this war with our SDIs and cash regardless of D1 intervention. This war was completely sloppy on your end, so do not blame the result on the addition of a few nations. For example, I never got coordinated against once, and even when I did get nuked, no one felt the urge to send me a defeat alert. We fought better across the board at every tier, coordinated, and completely asserted dominance. I'm getting tired of you saying anything else. As a final note for the impact of D1 nations...we would have taken a few more nukes and maybe OP would have lost 120k NS instead of 170k. Even so, it still wouldn't matter. I have absolutely no idea how most of OP had roughly 20m coming into the war, with no conflict for the first 30 days whatsoever. You can blame this destruction on poor building and non-existent coordination, not donations, D1 assistance, or anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerys Targaryen Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Good luck with the rebuild OP. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul711 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014  You keep making the same point, time after time. We would have won this war with our SDIs and cash regardless of D1 intervention. This war was completely sloppy on your end, so do not blame the result on the addition of a few nations. For example, I never got coordinated against once, and even when I did get nuked, no one felt the urge to send me a defeat alert. We fought better across the board at every tier, coordinated, and completely asserted dominance. I'm getting tired of you saying anything else. As a final note for the impact of D1 nations...we would have taken a few more nukes and maybe OP would have lost 120k NS instead of 170k. Even so, it still wouldn't matter. I have absolutely no idea how most of OP had roughly 20m coming into the war, with no conflict for the first 30 days whatsoever. You can blame this destruction on poor building and non-existent coordination, not donations, D1 assistance, or anything else. then why call in the help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Blitzkrieger Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I never called in help and was not involved in the decision. However, as we've said time after time, the help was to ease pressure off of our lower tier, who it was clear you were going to gang up on with the DoW blitz. On paper, "calling in help" was a statistical move to level the playing field created by an 85+ nuke advantage and nations still in NA.  At that time, no one besides OP knew how poorly your WCs and fighting were going to be. Sure, now everyone realizes it would have been a curbstomp either way. But hindsight is 20/20, and to continually bring up "bringing in help" seems to be a desperate attempt to save face.  That's all I have to say on the topic, and GL the rest of the round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDSupreme Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Peace has been reached at this update, as OPs original wars expire.  B-)         Congratz to all participants, and a "To the Victorious the Spoils..." to the Avengers" AA, after showing immense  sportsmanship and Bravery under very undesirable and obscured odds...!  GREAT VICTORY...!!! :frantic: :popcorn: :excl:  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul711 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I never called in help and was not involved in the decision. However, as we've said time after time, the help was to ease pressure off of our lower tier, who it was clear you were going to gang up on with the DoW blitz. On paper, "calling in help" was a statistical move to level the playing field created by an 85+ nuke advantage and nations still in NA.  At that time, no one besides OP knew how poorly your WCs and fighting were going to be. Sure, now everyone realizes it would have been a curbstomp either way. But hindsight is 20/20, and to continually bring up "bringing in help" seems to be a desperate attempt to save face.  That's all I have to say on the topic, and GL the rest of the round. Hold on if the help was to help your lower tier how come a majority of the D1 attacks were against nations hitting your top nations?  As to this being a curbstomp either way we can argue the point forever but we will never know because D1 interfered. As to the fighting and coordination its hard to fight against 6 nations all of which are much larger than yourself. Edited September 16, 2014 by paul711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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