CNRP'40 OOC Thread

[Zoot Zoot]

Everyone knows that the RAF won 1940 on the backs of its Typhoons.

[Hereno]

So tech just stays at a fixed point? What

How else would we do it? If we do it in real-time, from start to finish (according to what is winning atm / 1 month = 1 year), it would take only 5 months IRL for the entire RP to be finished. I doubt we'll have argued through a single war by then. :P

[Hereno]

I had an idea that I want to float around.

Selling armaments and such should be allowed, but should force someone to use up part of their industrial capacity to make them. Standard weapons would be as if they were replenishing soldiers, and everything else would be as-is. I also think it would be cool if we allow people to buy weapons that are outside of their technology year. The scenario would allow a person like me to, over time during peace, procure a small amount of higher-tech armaments. I couldn't buy the plans, and once used up, they would be gone. Because it would cost someone else their production power to make them, this wouldn't be able to be abused, would be greatly slowed down if not stopped during war, and would make it so that people would want to give something real in exchange for the weapons, rather than them just being given out willy-nilly to whoever is allied with each other. It would also encourage more people to have lower tech levels, but at the same time, encourage a balance of higher-tech players who can actually sell the things being manufactured. So, in short, it would create some diversity in nation types and allow for more strategizing, in addition to more accurately simulating our economies but without making people have to RP shit they don't want to.

[Centurius]

I had an idea that I want to float around.

Selling armaments and such should be allowed, but should force someone to use up part of their industrial capacity to make them. Standard weapons would be as if they were replenishing soldiers, and everything else would be as-is. I also think it would be cool if we allow people to buy weapons that are outside of their technology year. The scenario would allow a person like me to, over time during peace, procure a small amount of higher-tech armaments. I couldn't buy the plans, and once used up, they would be gone. Because it would cost someone else their production power to make them, this wouldn't be able to be abused, would be greatly slowed down if not stopped during war, and would make it so that people would want to give something real in exchange for the weapons, rather than them just being given out willy-nilly to whoever is allied with each other. It would also encourage more people to have lower tech levels, but at the same time, encourage a balance of higher-tech players who can actually sell the things being manufactured. So, in short, it would create some diversity in nation types and allow for more strategizing, in addition to more accurately simulating our economies but without making people have to RP !@#$ they don't want to.

There is way too much abuse potential allowing people to buy stuff beyond their tech level, especially if the penalties apply to the seller rather than the buyer. ICly denying the sale of higher tech level equipment can easily be explained by a lack of expertise from the buyer. The fact you're being penalized for having higher tech level equipment is already enough to promote diversity.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Centurius

[Peter Ilyich]

I realized that what we have here is an aternate history RP... genious!

[Hereno]

There is way too much abuse potential allowing people to buy stuff beyond their tech level, especially if the penalties apply to the seller rather than the buyer. ICly denying the sale of higher tech level equipment can easily be explained by a lack of expertise from the buyer. The fact you're being penalized for having higher tech level equipment is already enough to promote diversity.

Except these kinds of sales have a lot of precedent in the range we're at. Britain and America especially shared a ton of technology with each other to cover each other's gaps, and the British definitely wanted to take advantage of America's large industrial base that couldn't be bombed into nothing. By allowing it and limiting it to a certain amount, in addition to not allowing us to sell plans to each other, this can be simulated. And it's interesting, so why not allow the simulation? You can say that it's potentially abused, but there's no inherent reason why it can't be limited to, say, half of the industrial capacity. These goods also have to actually be transferred and then used... the same dilemma you have in CNRP right now, except in this system, you'd actually take a hit by sending someone a bunch of goods, and the amount you could send would be limited by your industrial capacity. I don't think me managing to grab a couple hundred good tanks or better rifles from someone that I can't replenish myself is really going to break the game... but what could break the game is you funneling a bunch of free shit into someone else's nation at your higher tech level but without using your industry to do it. And if you sit there and let me spend 6 months not at war amassing higher-tech stuff for my army, that's not really my fault, either. So what's the issue?

[Centurius]

Except these kinds of sales have a lot of precedent in the range we're at. Britain and America especially shared a ton of technology with each other to cover each other's gaps, and the British definitely wanted to take advantage of America's large industrial base that couldn't be bombed into nothing. By allowing it and limiting it to a certain amount, in addition to not allowing us to sell plans to each other, this can be simulated. And it's interesting, so why not allow the simulation? You can say that it's potentially abused, but there's no inherent reason why it can't be limited to, say, half of the industrial capacity. These goods also have to actually be transferred and then used... the same dilemma you have in CNRP right now, except in this system, you'd actually take a hit by sending someone a bunch of goods, and the amount you could send would be limited by your industrial capacity. I don't think me managing to grab a couple hundred good tanks or better rifles from someone that I can't replenish myself is really going to break the game... but what could break the game is you funneling a bunch of free !@#$ into someone else's nation at your higher tech level but without using your industry to do it. And if you sit there and let me spend 6 months not at war amassing higher-tech stuff for my army, that's not really my fault, either. So what's the issue?

In CNRP that's not an issue because you aren't actually penalized for having a higher tech level. In CNRP40 you are, someone who is also at a 1940 tech level could build all this stuff for himself anyway so selling becomes flavour rp at that point. You being able to buy it without taking a hit on your force numbers allows you to proportionally have more of an advanced weapons system without any penalty.

[Yerushalayim]

I don't see an issue with Hereno's suggestion. If you, as an advanced nation, do not wish to set aside any of your industrial capacity toward making items to sell, then simply do not sell them. No one is forcing you to give away advanced tech.

[Hereno]

In CNRP that's not an issue because you aren't actually penalized for having a higher tech level. In CNRP40 you are, someone who is also at a 1940 tech level could build all this stuff for himself anyway so selling becomes flavour rp at that point. You being able to buy it without taking a hit on your force numbers allows you to proportionally have more of an advanced weapons system without any penalty.

The penalty is that I have to convince somebody to sit there and sell me a bunch of weapons. Not to mention that we can't create new soldiers... only re-arm them. I'd even be willing to go as far as to say that all of our new stuff has to over-ride our old stuff rather than being an addition. That's more than fair.

[Centurius]

I don't see an issue with Hereno's suggestion. If you, as an advanced nation, do not wish to set aside any of your industrial capacity toward making items to sell, then simply do not sell them. No one is forcing you to give away advanced tech.

 

That doesn't keep another advanced nation from doing it and thus giving a less advanced nation an unreasonable advantage in war.

The penalty is that I have to convince somebody to sit there and sell me a bunch of weapons. Not to mention that we can't create new soldiers... only re-arm them. I'd even be willing to go as far as to say that all of our new stuff has to over-ride our old stuff rather than being an addition. That's more than fair.

That would be really something special if these weapons would actually be an addition allowing you to go beyond the 800 point cap in numbers.

 

The philosophy behind the tech system is that you can have high tech but it's going to be in lesser numbers or large numbers at the cost of lower tech. You want a large armed force? Deal with 1935 tech. You want an advanced force, 1940.

[Hereno]

That doesn't keep another advanced nation from doing it and thus giving a less advanced nation an unreasonable advantage in war.
That would be really something special if these weapons would actually be an addition allowing you to go beyond the 800 point cap in numbers.
 
The philosophy behind the tech system is that you can have high tech but it's going to be in lesser numbers or large numbers at the cost of lower tech. You want a large armed force? Deal with 1935 tech. You want an advanced force, 1940.

The rest of the less advanced nation's stuff is still less advanced. You want to talk about the tech system... go read up and tell me how fast we can replenish losses, and then cut that amount in half like I suggested, and see how game-breaking this really is.

You won't, though, because it's not, and you're not gonna go through the trouble of doing the math to make my point for me. But the rest of the people can go and see it for themselves if they'd like.

[Centurius]

The rest of the less advanced nation's stuff is still less advanced. You want to talk about the tech system... go read up and tell me how fast we can replenish losses, and then cut that amount in half like I suggested, and see how game-breaking this really is.

You won't, though, because it's not, and you're not gonna go through the trouble of doing the math to make my point for me. But the rest of the people can go and see it for themselves if they'd like.

Oh it is, but it penalizes the seller who already has the higher tech. There is no penalty at all for the buyer where the most abuse potential is.

[Hereno]

Oh it is, but it penalizes the seller who already has the higher tech. There is no penalty at all for the buyer where the most abuse potential is.

Yeah, so use your power of control over your nation to not sell weapons to people of lower tech levels and you won't face any penalty.

At this point, I think we must agree to disagree. You think it is not in your interest to allow this, so you will argue and distract from the point and do anything you can to make sure that it isn't in the game, even if it would be a good and interesting feature. Such is life.

[Centurius]

Yeah, so use your power of control over your nation to not sell weapons to people of lower tech levels and you won't face any penalty.

At this point, I think we must agree to disagree. You think it is not in your interest to allow this, so you will argue and distract from the point and do anything you can to make sure that it isn't in the game, even if it would be a good and interesting feature. Such is life.

I think if anyone is arguing based on personal interest here it's you.

[Horo the Wise Wolf]

What's the point of spending points getting to 1940 tech if I can just stay at 1935 tech and buy 1940 stuff off of someone else? I bet I could find at least one willing seller.

[Hereno]

I think if anyone is arguing based on personal interest here it's you.

 
I never said there was anything wrong with it, just that you wouldn't admit I was right even if you thought I was, making arguing with you pointless.
 

What's the point of spending points getting to 1940 tech if I can just stay at 1935 tech and buy 1940 stuff off of someone else? I bet I could find at least one willing seller.

The point of this entire tech system is making it so that there are a variety of good options, rather than everybody going straight 1940 offensive tech. If you didn't want there to be choices, why not just vote for Yeru's system where tech doesn't cost shit so we can all be on the relatively same playing field?

[Centurius]

 
I never said there was anything wrong with it, just that you wouldn't admit I was right even if you thought I was, making arguing with you pointless.
 

The point of this entire tech system is making it so that there are a variety of good options, rather than everybody going straight 1940 offensive tech. If you didn't want there to be choices, why not just vote for Yeru's system where tech doesn't cost !@#$ so we can all be on the relatively same playing field?

The relative cost of 1940s tech is what makes it diverse. You can go for the very best but that's expensive while going for lower tech is less expensive. If you enable the sale of higher tech there is no reason to stick to lower stuff because you can just buy the high tech stuff anyway and still get the equivalent of 800 points in numbers rather than 650.

[Hereno]

The relative cost of 1940s tech is what makes it diverse. You can go for the very best but that's expensive while going for lower tech is less expensive. If you enable the sale of higher tech there is no reason to stick to lower stuff because you can just buy the high tech stuff anyway and still get the equivalent of 800 points in numbers rather than 650.

And that would make it so some people might go 1937-8-9 tech rather than 1936 or 1940.

Because let's face it, 1935 tech is unusable. I tried, it's not possible.

[Greywall]

Hereno, Eva, fizzy, and dillion diplomat threads have been replied to.

[Generalissimo]

I have a question.

How many points for Airship Carriers?

 

What about functional-ish airborne carriers?

[Fizzydog]

I realized that what we have here is an aternate history RP... genious!

Alternate history indeed. Monarchies allying with communist countries, everyone being good friends and playing perfect diplomat.

Where's the adventure guys? Take some initiative. Crises don't start on their own :3

[Markus Wilding]

Sort out your military, then we can start rocking and rolling.

[Fizzydog]

What's the point of spending points getting to 1940 tech if I can just stay at 1935 tech and buy 1940 stuff off of someone else? I bet I could find at least one willing seller.

Couldn't we put in place some kind of system for buying? Like, for example, everything you buy is doubled in points cost, and then you multiply it by how many years ahead of you it is.

So If I bought some planes from 1940 and I had 1938 tech, itd be 2 points times 2 with a total of 4 points spent. This way, people can buy critical high tech goods without abusing the system.

Edit: Or however much planes cost now, I forgot Eva's system is in place. Edited September 16, 2014 by Fizzydog

[PresidentDavid]

I'm pretty sure you can't buy planes from 1940 if you have 1938 tech. That defeats the entire purpose of buying tech of you could buy the 1940 planes anyway. 

[Yerushalayim]

I'm pretty sure you can't buy planes from 1940 if you have 1938 tech. That defeats the entire purpose of buying tech of you could buy the 1940 planes anyway. 

 

He meant if he was buying them from another player, who had 1940's tech. And that would be one way to penalize the buyer, to have whatever they're buying take up extra points/slots of theirs (as well as taking up the seller's industry).