The politics of contempt

[kerschbs]

Now... when you say fight... do you mean how GATO 'fought' last war?

 

I love seeing R&R members spout this line when you peaced every nation you had over 80kns in the Dave War. I remember joking with Ego about this because I wanted to DOW him while looking for targets. 

 

Isn't this line getting old yet? It didn't apply when people tried to pin it on you, doesn't apply when people try and pin it on us.

 

As for contempt driving politics, if you can find me a time in CN history when this didn't apply I'd be shocked. 

Edited June 10, 2013 by kerschbs

[Prodigal Moon]

I love seeing R&R members spout this line when you peaced every nation you had over 80kns in the Dave War. I remember joking with Ego about this because I wanted to DOW him while looking for targets. 

 

Isn't this line getting old yet? It didn't apply when people tried to pin it on you, doesn't apply when people try and pin it on us.

 

As for contempt driving politics, if you can find me a time in CN history when this didn't apply I'd be shocked. 

 

I've never been in touch with the behind the scenes action, but Karma did not strike me as a war of contempt in the sense that the OP means it. NPO and allies may have been evil, or authoritarian, or aggressive, but I don't recall any propaganda or real sentiment that the opposition was fundamentally more elite than NPO, or that NPO and allies were a "shitsphere" that deserved to be mopped up because of their incompetence. It was more of a moral crusade against a formidable opponent from where I stood.

[magicninja]

That's just contempt driven by the feeling of moral superiority.

[Alex987]

Ok but now we're getting nitpicky. The assumption you're making is that contempt is an on/off switch, which it is not. There are degrees of it which change depending on the reasoning behind it. The OP said "Perhaps politics has always been this way, but it seems worse now.", which is a perfectly reasonable statement. He wasn't saying "contempt didn't exist at all until recently".

[Prodigal Moon]

That's just contempt driven by the feeling of moral superiority.

 

I can see how you might frame it that way, since contempt is pretty broad. The way the OP discussed contempt in the context of elitism though, I don't think we're talking about quite the same thing.

[Neo Uruk]

I can see how you might frame it that way, since contempt is pretty broad. The way the OP discussed contempt in the context of elitism though, I don't think we're talking about quite the same thing.

Contempt is contempt. Elitism is elitism. While they are not mutually exclusive, Karma was a display of absolute contempt and condemnation of the remaining elements of Continuum and their past actions. If you meant it as contempt via elitism, that's a different story as Karma had some fairly well-built war alliances (Valhalla comes to mind) and there wasn't an air of military superiority among the Karma coalition, with the exemption of those brought in on the deliberate overrunning of GGA.

[Prodigal Moon]

^

One remarkable consequence of what is now the third year of 'elitism' being the dominant ideology of Bob (since the collapse of 'honorism' after Karma) is the staggering lack of respect that permeates the world like an unpleasant smell.  The tribal bloodfeuds of the past few years and lingering resentments, ancient grudges and boredom fueled bloodlust are one thing, but these highly motivating factors have taken a backseat to the politics of contempt.

I'm just expanding on what Ogaden wrote here, in which he meant contempt in the elitist sense. The attitude toward GGA is a good example from the past that's consistent with the modern brand of elitist contempt.

[Neo Uruk]

Fair enough.

[Alex987]

Contempt is contempt. Elitism is elitism.

 

I wasn't around for Karma so I can't speak to specifics but again contempt is not an on and off switch, there are different degrees and intensities, just like there are different degrees to anger and happiness. Saying that these things are binary is a tremendous oversimplification for the purpose of an advanageous comparison for the point you are trying to make.

[Neo Uruk]

I wasn't around for Karma so I can't speak to specifics but again contempt is not an on and off switch, there are different degrees and intensities, just like there are different degrees to anger and happiness. Saying that these things are binary is a tremendous oversimplification for the purpose of an advanageous comparison for the point you are trying to make.

That's...actually the opposite of the point I was making. Thanks for reading my entire post, as you obviously did. Edited June 12, 2013 by Neo Uruk

[magicninja]

I can see how you might frame it that way, since contempt is pretty broad. The way the OP discussed contempt in the context of elitism though, I don't think we're talking about quite the same thing.

Pretty much though I would say trying to claim the moral high ground as the basis for a war is in a way...elitist. Though if what you are saying holds water, the op should really be titled "The Politics of Elitism". Then, yes, not every war has been about one side simply having a "we're just better than you attitude"...but they were all driven by contempt, disdain, or dislike in some fashion or another.

[Prodigal Moon]

Though if what you are saying holds water, the op should really be titled "The Politics of Elitism".

Yeah I was thinking something like that would've been clearer.

[Sephiroth]

2 pages later, and I'm still yet to find anyone from an alliance complaining of being treated with contempt offering any reasons not to be. Attacks on the quality of opposition posters, sure, but nothing concrete to suggest that alliances such as Fark, RnR, RIA and MHA are anything but incompetent at best and downright mediocre at worst. Consider it a callout or something, whatever floats your boat.

Fark, RnR, RIA and MHA might not be the most efficient alliances, but they are nowhere close to the level of incompetence of alliances such as GOONS. An alliance such as GOONS needs to fully rely on its allies to persevere, but at the same time they are so bad they drag the reputations and political capital of any alliances foolish enough to ally them through the mud regularly. You can name mediocre alliances on both sides, but no alliance on the Equilibrium side comes close to being both as incompetent as GOONS; while also being unlikeable enough to be a huge factor in many opposing whatever side they are on.

 

If it wasn't for GOONS, how many would really dislike DH? When an alliance will unconditionally fight for another, then the bad aspects tend to rub off on those allied with the bad alliances. Dislike for alliances such as GOONS and their incompetence should be enough to keep everybody from being distracted and randomly attacking SF.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Methrage

[Neo Uruk]

Haha, implying GOONS is worse than MHA. You're really reaching harder each day, Methrage.

[Sephiroth]

Haha, implying GOONS is worse than MHA. You're really reaching harder each day, Methrage.

MHA was the top NS alliance for a while IIRC, GOONS has never been notable for anything except failure, needing to be bailed out constantly by its allies and being an unpleasant alliance to deal with who leverages the power of its allies to get more than it deserves..

[Neo Uruk]

MHA was the top NS alliance for a while IIRC, GOONS has never been notable for anything except failure, needing to be bailed out constantly by its allies and being an unpleasant alliance to deal with who leverages the power of its allies to get more than it deserves..

"Top NS is a relevant statistic towards competence"

All that bloated NS really saved XX in the Grudge War, didn't it?

[magicninja]

TBH, Methrage...and I have no special love for GOONS.... I think you're actually making a case for why GOONS is more competent than any of the alliances you mentioned. IF GOONS is as bad as you say.....why are there actually more people with "contempt" for the alliances you mentioned and not GOONS? Think about it old chap.

[Alex987]

Ugh, back to the generalizations :( (even at 2 pages later Bob)

 

PS: Why are Fark even in the incompetence discussion at all? Seriously, they're one of the better fighting alliances in the game, they just don't have the stats anymore because they've been hit hard.

[Neo Uruk]

Ugh, back to the generalizations :( (even at 2 pages later Bob)
 
PS: Why are Fark even in the incompetence discussion at all? Seriously, they're one of the better fighting alliances in the game, they just don't have the stats anymore because they've been hit hard.

Fark was incredibly underwhelming a couple wars back, but I haven't heard anything negative about them in a while. Not too much positive either, though.

[Auctor]

Competent is a word that is overused in a CN where the suckage rate is significantly higher than 80%

[Alex987]

Fark was incredibly underwhelming a couple wars back, but I haven't heard anything negative about them in a while. Not too much positive either, though.

 

Yeah that's because people aren't trying to flatter/court them quite like all the name drops of how impressive DT was in the last war :D

[Neo Uruk]

Yeah that's because people aren't trying to flatter/court them quite like all the name drops of how impressive DT was in the last war :D

Could be true. Then again, Polaris was also called one of the better of your coalition, and I don't think many are trying to get tied up with them.

[Auctor]

in the olden days, someone'd've just made this a poll already.

[IYIyTh]

in the olden days, someone'd've just made this a poll already.

 

Either I'm getting nostalgic or the most recent commentary is horse shit enough to suggest the old ways were best.

[Rush Sykes]

MHA was the top NS alliance for a while IIRC, GOONS has never been notable for anything except failure, needing to be bailed out constantly by its allies and being an unpleasant alliance to deal with who leverages the power of its allies to get more than it deserves..

 

MHA folded like a cheap lawn chair. The cried to their coalition this past war when they had thirty six.... 3----6..... 36.... incoming wars ... for help. Let that sink in. They had 219 (i think it was at the time) nations...36 incoming wars.... and they needed help.