I have been thinking

[Zoot Zoot]

Ok so I know this thread is by page 3, if not page two, have turned into a pissing contest. But that's how we roll.

 

People will cry heretic, witchcraft and sorcery for this post, also how we roll. They will deny it for it is, say i am wrong, biased, a crappy player, a whiner and the rest. This thread is doomed to fail, but I am going to write anyway.

 

CNRP is dying. We have been saying it for years, but now i believe its come to a point that its in real danger of happening. We are a shitty community. We are not noob friendly. We are nasty, spiteful and we don't care because its the internet. This community has its cliques, it also has its friend circles, past and present. Good friendships have been made through this community and RP reflects it as such.

 

The community is polarized, us and them, or whatever, but that is the fact of the matter and its indisputable. Half of this community posts to interfere, the rest either post to stay active or post to try and RP with other players, which brings us back to the first half. Now obviously RL>RP. That is also indisputable. Vast swathes of land are held by barely active players and vast swathes are held by players who most of us look towards as the top dogs of the community, its leaders, also indisputable. Some, don't view it like this and when they get on their high horse, they seek to change things or challenge things for better, for worse, for their own favour or not, its not relevant. But something needs to change for everyone.

 

I'm not talking about the tech scale or the rules or the map or anything else, but attitudes need to change in my opinion because this community has turned into those old miserable bastards that sit at the end of the bar waiting to die in that smokey, roadside bar.

 

I don't see why my proposition won't be shouted down, mocked, whined at, berated and this entire post called lies and slander. But its how I see this community now.

 

So I propose something, proposed before in the hopes that perhaps my not so insightful, rambling post, opens some eyes and allows people to see what we the community have done to CNRP over the years.

 

I propose an utter abandonment of the map. Start with an utterly blank map, same rules et cetera as now, but a fresh piece of paper and start again.

 

That's it, my grand suggestion.

[Centurius]

Not sure a new map will help, but I'm not opposed to just getting rid of the map in its entirety. Let people rp their states as they wish, and more importantly with who they want. Get rid of the rules too and just have players discuss things among themselves when it comes to interactions.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

The map is the very least of our problems.  There is lots of land out there for people, just not their first choice, but if I was able to play in Pakistan for a year, then someone can have the Congo.  But yeah, we have a serious PR issue.  At this point, it seems like CNRP and the Boiler Room are places that are subject to scorn and scoffing on the forums.  We do need to be more easy going with the new peeps, but we need to find a way to get them here first.

[Tanis777]

I think the first step is allowing white space areas to be more open to starting than long winded PM discussions to ask for it, tbh.

 

EDIT: That is if the map survives this latest attempt on it's life...

Edited February 16, 2013 by Tanis777

[Captain Enema]

I've no problem with ditching the map, though I found the best way forward is just to get engaged in a story to your liking and ignore all the metagamers and lackeys that suck up to the metagamers. 

[Evangeline Anovilis]

I'm not talking about the tech scale or the rules or the map or anything else, but attitudes need to change in my opinion because this community has turned into those old miserable bastards that sit at the end of the bar waiting to die in that smokey, roadside bar.
 
...

I propose an utter abandonment of the map. Start with an utterly blank map, same rules et cetera as now, but a fresh piece of paper and start again.
 
That's it, my grand suggestion.

You are not talking about the map, yet you want to wipe and restart the map? Anyway...
 
I agree on the OOC mentality being the problem, but I fail to see how changing the map solves the issues existing. as Melech already said, the map is the least of our issues.

 

Edit: Shortened the quote.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Evangeline Anovilis

[JEDCJT]

I think it's people's attitudes that needs to change, not the map itself.

[Captain Enema]

I think it's people's attitudes that needs to change, not the map itself.

 

No.. I think people's attitudes have always been the same. What people really need to do is just enjoy having fun with rp. It seems too much like work these days with all the butthurt. 

 

That and some silly folks put their reputations at stake over the whole african war and ended up looking foolish because of it. That explains best why I'm seeing a paucity of posting from certain persons. 

 

Just have fun with rp. But don't expect people to play along with you if your definition of fun involves ruining their fun. 

[Centurius]

No.. I think people's attitudes have always been the same. What people really need to do is just enjoy having fun with rp. It seems too much like work these days with all the butthurt. 

 

That and some silly folks put their reputations at stake over the whole african war and ended up looking foolish because of it. That explains best why I'm seeing a paucity of posting from certain persons. 

 

Just have fun with rp. But don't expect people to play along with you if your definition of fun involves ruining their fun. 

You're starting to sound like Sal, that time of the month again?

[Horo the Wise Wolf]

OOC will undeniably affect IC, massively. To that end, a new map could help, though that would me more of a situation wherein we use a fictional geographical setting, rather than just wiping the Earth clean. People would be able to find nice corners for themselves again, and implement their own culture to a greater degree.

Nevertheless, as previously stated, community attitude what will make or break CNRP.

[Rauchen]

I think it's people's attitudes that needs to change, not the map itself.

You'll have better luck revising the map than people's characters.

 

The issue is that everyone here looks to use land as an e-peen enhancer. They'll either swallow up land as their own, declare entire nations as protectorates, or declare an area as a protectorate and absorb it later. Once upon a time, resistance to land-grabbing restrictions was centered around the belief that people wouldn't expand too much because it would make their nation indefensible. Well, we rarely have a war that goes all the way through without someone ragequitting or the whole group descending into OOC bickering, so that argument is invalid.

 

Vektor is an excellent RPer - always has been. But he rarely posts and when he does, it's usually a war. Yet he controls all of central and eastern Europe, plus Ireland and Scandinavia, and controls Britain as a protectorate.

 

Voodoo is, likewise, a great writer, but even as an old friend of his, it took me more than a week to get a confirmation on my nation, and he controls all of Central America and has most of South America and half of the US under protection.

 

Triyun's nation is extremely bloated, but at least he remains relatively active. Same with Cent. But new players are always reluctant to form their nation in the shadow of a country that controls half of a continent and essentially the entirety of another. No new player would believe that Tianxia got that big through purely peaceful means.

 

And at this point, there is not a single square millimeter of unclaimed land on the map. Even Africa, which once upon a time, was avoided like the plague by existing RPers, is now covered in AUP Protectorates and Disputed markers. Sure, we might see that as just another way of saying "open land," but new players will just see it as more land controlled by someone else...and if they do manage to sway that person to give them land, they are basically obligated to stay in line with the former protector or risk retribution. Our own insistence on using the map as an e-peen tape measure is stifling creativity and new RPers.

[Lestari]

My first thought was 'wow, Zoot's been thinking? He does that?'

 

On the proposal itself, I have said and will continue to say that I don't think that wiping the map will do any good. People will just rush to claim what was theirs, and others will rush to claim what they previously wanted but was already owned by somebody else. That somebody else, feeling cheated out of 'their' land, will then reroll somewhere nearby and pretty much find any excuse to roll the person who took the land they used to RP in. Basically, I reckon it wouldn't provide anything more than more reasons for people to cross the IC/OOC line.

 

A note on the topic of driving off new players: A lot of those new players seem lately to be along the lines of ishabad or Tom Riddle: they weren't good RPers, they weren't gonna [I]be[/I] good RPers, and they sure as hell weren't gonna contribute anything to the community creatively speaking except maybe a bit of fleeting amusement.

Edited February 17, 2013 by dotCom

[Mogar]

Not sure a new map will help, but I'm not opposed to just getting rid of the map in its entirety. Let people rp their states as they wish, and more importantly with who they want. Get rid of the rules too and just have players discuss things among themselves when it comes to interactions.

I would come back if this was the case, the problem with the map is it forces you to interact with people, and i honestly think half the community doesnt even really want to do that, most are content to RP their own little world.

[Captain Enema]

You are free to do that now, no one is saying you must be on the map. It's rp, do what you want to do. 

[J Andres]

Getting rid of the map doesn't solve these issues. Before the scramble threads territory was still a sticky issue and was confusing. I wasn't a fan of the maps at first, but they brought some level of clarity to location and I think they are an important frame of reference for all of us.

[Gloval]

Getting rid of the map doesn't solve these issues. Before the scramble threads territory was still a sticky issue and was confusing. I wasn't a fan of the maps at first, but they brought some level of clarity to location and I think they are an important frame of reference for all of us.

Indeed. The map came because players wanted clarity.

[Vidarr the Terrible]

I really can't comment on this issue without looking biased, so with that in mind, take what I say for however you will.

If you don't want to RP on the map, you don't have to. If you want to RP with someone not on the map, you can. CNRP is only a small community, a small canon. Regardless of what rules or maps change, we're still going to have issues with people.

 

I'll be honest and say I do not want to be in charge of a bunch of map disputes. I will if need be, but it will suck for everyone. Hell, when I suggested that idea a year or so ago, nobody liked it either.

[Captain Enema]

Actually, vince, considering you are the one doing the map, you could easily just demand that anyone who wants on it must free up their protectorates. Oh the delicious tears that would come from that. 

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Hell, when I suggested that idea a year or so ago, nobody liked it either.

Because it's an idea that won't change all too much. As long as the OOC mentality remains, the map is just a convenient regulation that can be cursed and accused of ruining everything, because you know, one has not to face others and oneself when swearing about how terribly restrictive the map is. That's also why everytime someone feels like something's poisoning the community, we are looking at the map, or the tech scale, to blame these conventions for spoiling the fun.

 

While the tech scale arguably may be adjusted to fit a different time, the same is more difficult with a map. By basing the map on the real earth, we are at least able to determine with some accuracy what kind of land is where, how big mountains are, what climate is prevalent, ocean currents, etc. To adopt a fantasy map will cause problems, as it is already a hassle to entrust the RP community with the interpretation of what exists in 3-20 years of time, which causes all kinds of OOC rage. Now imagine the same freedom of interpretation for ocean currents, because oceans would have currents and because continent XYZ is shaped like it is, combined with the degree at which the sun shines on the surface of the sea and because this many turtles swim in this direction, there should be a current approximately x knots strong, from point A to point B, through point C, giving my fleet approximately three knots additional speed towards the target, therefor letting them arrive 4 hours before the enemy expects them, causing massive damage... yeah, that would be awesome.

 

And just whiping the map clean for once will not help the OOC either. Even if people won't just jump back to where they were, disputes won't cease, rather we'd see people arguing how the old order was much better and how the whipe allowed for autocratic states popping up in formerly 'democratic' states, or how Germany turned into a worse country, or whatever, poisoning the community.

 

I'll be a conservative here, the map won't change, nor will the tech scale. This is a minor outrage, like many, ending like all the others, at status quo. Like, didn't we discuss tech scale reform? Where are we now? At the tech scale that ranges from 1984 to 2032, based on a logarithm. Same as when I joined. Nothing changed, but it was a nice ventile for people to let steam of, in frustration over things that seemingly did not matter enough, if they mattered at all, and weren't just substitutions for other issues that weren't ever adressed.

 

Also, we will talk about OOC mentality change, but honestly, what will come from that, which isn't already there or never going to happen?

[Vidarr the Terrible]

Actually, vince, considering you are the one doing the map, you could easily just demand that anyone who wants on it must free up their protectorates. Oh the delicious tears that would come from that. 

 

I don't have any actual power, as the mapmaker. I don't want to have any power as the mapmaker, other than what goes on in my thread.

[Captain Enema]

Look, he who holds the map, holds the high ground! I'm not being serious either, people would flip and that would amuse me to no end. Right then, back to Whale Wars, damn fine video entertainment this is. 

[Vidarr the Terrible]

Look, he who holds the map, holds the high ground!

Damn skippy. I was writing an essay for a feminist teacher so sorry if I came off a bit preachy :P

[Captain Enema]

Easiest essay ever, just quote a lot of Margret Mead and you'll be fine.

[Triyun]

I don't believe any new players are being denied land. I'm not opposed to denying land to new people, but I am opposed to just giving it up to Zoot when he wants to expand. He's been fishing for more land in Asia for quite a bit and been being denied. Now admittedly this past single month has been particularly busy but I think when you look at the long term trend lines of whose actively RPing, I think it'd be really hard for him to actually claim that the other players in the middle east have been inactive.

[Zoot Zoot]

BOOM. I was expecting this. Thread goes down hill from here because NOW, this thread is about me trying to get more land. You're memory must be getting bad because I'm sure I gave up South America because I wasn't active enough to hold so much land.

 

For the record, the ONE nation I asked if you would mind if I took over, was Najran, (kitex), and he is inactive, that other Arabian nation is also inactive. That pretty much is the middle east. Yourself and Cent are busy warring EM, and Markus posts every now and then, admittedly, more now that somebody is actually interacting with me. The only other fully active RPer in the middle east, was Curristan, who is now back in South America.

 

So, going back to my first post in this thread. It has begun, and its going to go downhill from here.